TOTL HP Shootout 2: Abyss, HEK, HEX, HD800S, HD800 Heavy Mod, HD800 Stock - YGG/ROK Stack
Apr 9, 2016 at 7:01 PM Post #91 of 133
 
Maybe the winds are blowing into your direction...
 
IQaudIO introduce Roon Ready Raspberry Pi DAC, amplifier
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/02/iqaudio-introduce-roon-ready-raspberry-pi-dac-amplifier/
 
Not sure it's for Digi+ though. And it seems that it's for Roon to add support for Pi, not the other way around:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/raspberry-pi-support-on-roadmap/1129


Yeah, I saw that!
 
Be nice to see some more momentum with Roon end-points.
 
My big concern with the Raspberry Pi based players is principally going to be that the digital outputs are done "properly".  I don't have a lot of use for a DAC on these sorts of devices as they're never going to measure up to the bigger, dedicated DACs I have available (though I appreciate for many they'll be all they need), but I do need a solid digital output.  And that means not using the native clocks on the Pi board as they're just not at a frequency that is convenient or readily suitable for audio (quality is another issue entirely).
 
As soon as I can get my hands on a Sonicorbiter SE I shall give one of those a try as well, though it'll probably be something I have to mod so I don't have to mess around with a 90 degree optical adapter (adapters in TOSLINK chains are a problem at the best of times, adding a 90 degree bend just because whomever designed the case wasn't paying attention is worse still)!
 
Apr 10, 2016 at 6:40 AM Post #92 of 133
 
My big concern with the Raspberry Pi based players is principally going to be that the digital outputs are done "properly".  I don't have a lot of use for a DAC on these sorts of devices as they're never going to measure up to the bigger, dedicated DACs I have available (though I appreciate for many they'll be all they need), but I do need a solid digital output.  And that means not using the native clocks on the Pi board as they're just not at a frequency that is convenient or readily suitable for audio (quality is another issue entirely).
 

Some people have fun hooking the Soekris dam1021 to the RPi via I2S, not unlike the Hifiberry products:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795895/a-70-bit-perfect-audio-player/75#post_12491686
 
They also mention that RPI may have some timing and jitter issues via I2S, and that a reclocking mechanism might help...
 
Apr 10, 2016 at 10:33 AM Post #93 of 133
  Some people have fun hooking the Soekris dam1021 to the RPi via I2S, not unlike the Hifiberry products:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795895/a-70-bit-perfect-audio-player/75#post_12491686
 
They also mention that RPI may have some timing and jitter issues via I2S, and that a reclocking mechanism might help...


That would be interesting combination!
 
At some point, when my schedule calms down a bit, I'll order the Soekris boards and put something together.  In doing so I would expect to build an audio-specific interface between the Raspberry Pi and the DAC board such that I could simply transfer the entire file to be played to that board and then have it it deal with communicating with the DAC.
 
That way it can have audio-optimized clocks etc. (by which I mean those which run optimal frequencies for supporting audio data, not that they'll be particularly fancy or unnecessarily expensive).
 
Apr 10, 2016 at 2:02 PM Post #94 of 133
 
At some point, when my schedule calms down a bit, I'll order the Soekris boards and put something together.  In doing so I would expect to build an audio-specific interface between the Raspberry Pi and the DAC board such that I could simply transfer the entire file to be played to that board and then have it it deal with communicating with the DAC.

 
That way it can have audio-optimized clocks etc. (by which I mean those which run optimal frequencies for supporting audio data, not that they'll be particularly fancy or unnecessarily expensive).


If you do, please share it with the rest of us!
 
I'd love to be able to assemble a Soekris board on top of the RPi, but I'm afraid my current DIY skills tend towards absolute zero... So some step by step instructions with a bit of handholding would be very, very appreciated. :)
 
May 28, 2016 at 4:15 PM Post #96 of 133
I'm another who bought and sold Abyss. I got distortion and/or 'flapping' sound with bass heavy music quite often. I found I could mostly eliminate the defect sounds by adjusting the seal, but not always.
 
May 28, 2016 at 6:28 PM Post #97 of 133
Hi @johnjen, I have a question for you. (As well as @Barra, if he wants to chime in.)
 
When I first saw this thread months ago, I thought the modified HD 800 was just stock with the mods in this post...but today I noticed in your signature that your HD 800 has the Stefan AudioArt Ultra-Modification and Endorphin balanced hardwired cable.
 
Did the modified HD 800 in the shootout include the SAA mods too? Because that bumps up the price by four figures! If this is the case, I feel that the first post of the thread should clearly state this, because otherwise, it implies that it cost less than it actually did.
 
Also, would you care to comment on what the SAA mods do that EQ cannot?
 
May 28, 2016 at 7:27 PM Post #98 of 133
Yes my modded 800's are more expensive than stock.
And the majority of the added cost is in the cable itself, which while more than most aftermarket cables is a common upgrade.
 
The mods that SAA make are not cheap either, but my 800's are now modded beyond what SAA provides and this how they were being used during the comparisons.
But it still has the endorphin cable hardwired to the drivers.
And it was their mod that prompted me to explore variations beyond theirs.
 
And since you are the 1st to ask or show any interest in this topic it simply wasn't thought to be an issue, until now.
 
And yes I have spent ≈ $2.5K on my 800's but that is still half of what the Abyss cost and less than stock HE1K's etc. etc.
I consider them, for what I value in my audio system, to be superior than either of those more expensive options, and I have learned that much of the improvements I have with my 800's can be implemented for less than I have spent thus far.
The learning curve was steep, but has since been significantly reduced.
 
JJ
 
May 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM Post #99 of 133
  Yes my modded 800's are more expensive than stock.
And the majority of the added cost is in the cable itself, which while more than most aftermarket cables is a common upgrade.
 
The mods that SAA make are not cheap either, but my 800's are now modded beyond what SAA provides and this how they were being used during the comparisons.
But it still has the endorphin cable hardwired to the drivers.
And it was their mod that prompted me to explore variations beyond theirs.
 
And since you are the 1st to ask or show any interest in this topic it simply wasn't thought to be an issue, until now.
 
And yes I have spent ≈ $2.5K on my 800's but that is still half of what the Abyss cost and less than stock HE1K's etc. etc.
I consider them, for what I value in my audio system, to be superior than either of those more expensive options, and I have learned that much of the improvements I have with my 800's can be implemented for less than I have spent thus far.
The learning curve was steep, but has since been significantly reduced.
 
JJ

 
Thanks for the info.
 
That's a good point. My best friend is actually the person who started the Abyss impressions thread, and he also likes his HD 800 (even in stock form) more overall. I haven't spent enough time with them to know for sure which I prefer, but it seems those mods are the real deal, and at a significantly lower cost.
If you publish a comprehensive tutorial on your best modifications, be sure to PM me the link!
beerchug.gif

 
Oh, and I am especially curious how a stock HD 800 with only the "triple mod" (but not SAA or other mods) measures up.
 
May 28, 2016 at 10:22 PM Post #100 of 133
   
Thanks for the info.
 
That's a good point. My best friend is actually the person who started the Abyss impressions thread, and he also likes his HD 800 (even in stock form) more overall. I haven't spent enough time with them to know for sure which I prefer, but it seems those mods are the real deal, and at a significantly lower cost.
If you publish a comprehensive tutorial on your best modifications, be sure to PM me the link!
beerchug.gif

 
Oh, and I am especially curious how a stock HD 800 with only the "triple mod" (but not SAA or other mods) measures up.

Say there…
I've listened to the Abyss and while they certainly can be impressive, for what I treasure in listening to music, they strike me as affectatious, in that while they can be initially quite impressive, they wouldn't withstand the test of time, at least for me.
IOW they sounded too good, too impressive, which is a phenomenon I learned about and wrote in my post about the Bose 901 speakers in the cookbook thread.
 
The mods I have made to my 800's are extensive and involving but, as is my intention, fully reversible.
I have only applied these tweaks to one other set of 800S's and that owner is still fussing and figuring.
 
The thing is, when the degree of system resolution takes a mother may I step up, (which can happen with mods to the 800's) then the rest of the system, with all of its strengths and weaknesses, becomes an issue, or can be depending upon what your criteria for what truly is 'Better'.
 
My mod to the 800's are very different than anything I have seen elsewhere, as it addresses different operational criteria.
I aim my mods at vibration management, and not at dampening frequency 'aberrations'.
 
Also it should be noted that whenever one starts mucking around with a given design and changing it, there are ALWAYS unexpected consequences, especially when the design is 'tight' in the first place.
 
And 800's are a VERY tight design with multiple design solutions seemingly buried in unsuspecting components which makes for a complex interaction between various acoustic and electrical and mechanical components.
IOW when 800's are modded some of their operational parameters (those that can be measured) can tend to look 'worse' than stock.
IOW I am still experimenting with the specifics of how I apply my mods.
And it takes a while to do this because I have to let these changes fully settle in before I fully know if they truly are 'Better', or not.
 
However, for me anyway, what I aim at is a superior musical experience, and I continue to refine the implementation of what and how I mod the 800's to dial them in, which allows the music I listen to, to 'blossom' and reach new levels of SQ.
 
And the triple tweaks are usable for any headphone (assuming a suitable EQ curve is available) as they mostly address whole system tweaks.
The Sonarworks compensation for the 800's is or can be, a real eye opener, and when used along with the SSBB and PRT can be transformative, again if the rest of the system isn't the limiting factor.
 
JJ
 
May 31, 2016 at 4:50 AM Post #101 of 133
This is the thread I've been waiting for. 
biggrin.gif

 
May 31, 2016 at 7:03 PM Post #102 of 133
 
  This is the thread I've been waiting for. 
biggrin.gif

 
Although the modified HD 800 was able to beat the Abyss (for some people) in this comparison, I doubt it'd be able to beat a TOTL STAX SR-009 system!
evil_smiley.gif

 
(Though that's not exactly a fair comparison, being many times more costly.)

To be fair, at the exotic stage, it is not about what is better but how they are different as they are all clearly best of class. Comparing them is like asking who would win a race between a Ducati motorcycle, a Ferrari, and a monster truck - it depends on the track.
 
What we were looking for in this exercise was when we all agreed that one HP was better than the other. What was fun was discovering how different our tastes were and the wide range of music that we each listened to. What was difficult was trying to find songs that we all agreed on for consistency and ones that we all new well for the best comparisons. For our next round, we will have to come up with some tighter listening/testing methods if we can all agree. 
rolleyes.gif

 
May 31, 2016 at 8:36 PM Post #103 of 133
  To be fair, at the exotic stage, it is not about what is better but how they are different as they are all clearly best of class. Comparing them is like asking who would win a race between a Ducati motorcycle, a Ferrari, and a monster truck - it depends on the track.
 
What we were looking for in this exercise was when we all agreed that one HP was better than the other. What was fun was discovering how different our tastes were and the wide range of music that we each listened to. What was difficult was trying to find songs that we all agreed on for consistency and ones that we all new well for the best comparisons. For our next round, we will have to come up with some tighter listening/testing methods if we can all agree. 
rolleyes.gif

 
Truth there. When my buddies and I have a mini-meet (just 3 of us) the songs used were already a point of contention. Luckily we all liked rock and none of us are EDM heads. So it came down to the classics. Eagles, Dire Straits.
 
Another one is buyer's bias haha. The "I bought the cooler stuff" mentality. Simply because we've spent many more hours with our own stuff compared with the few minutes for each 'phone during a meet. We don't have a solution for that yet haha.
 
Jun 27, 2016 at 10:05 AM Post #105 of 133
And my 'heavily modded' 800's are a tweakers dream, in that they lend themselves to experimentation quite nicely.
They come apart and reassemble very easily which 'encourages' exploring differing types of tweaking.


The trick, of course, is knowing what to change and how, and which material(s) to use to 'tame' the 800's idiosyncrasies while leaving all of the good stuff intact.

And the EQ that I've been playing with is still being dialed in, but thus far shows great promise and just recently I've reached Gen-2 status with my efforts.
And I still have several more avenues to explore.

So, given the 'state of the tweak' and to have my 800's be considered as an equal to the 'high priced' cans, is encouraging.
And what was heard at this meet is only ≈ 85% of what I have achieved at home with the more dialed in gear I've been fussing with to explore tweaking my 800's.


JJ

Please redirect me if these questions have been summarized in threads I haven't come across yet:
I'd be helped by a run-down of the mods you have done that have done the trick?
Could I get similar results with digital EQ?
I see comments about  SQ differences between older serial number 800's vs newer ones.  Are these subjective comparisons or have the 800's gone through several versions under the same name since introduction?  Thanks McC
 

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