Fidelizer Pro - Real or Snake Oil?
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Apr 24, 2017 at 5:12 AM Post #451 of 683
I once tried with Diffmaker. Proper measurements on analog DAC is too much effort for 2-digit software. Maybe I'll do that after people being able to make sense with Diffmaker measurements.

By the way, do you guys know any other measurements to recommend besides basic RMAA metrics archimago did? Do I need to measure signal that solved stuttering too?

Regards,
Keetakawee


Let us back up here.   You wrote:
 
I can recommend some people who can do proper tests who can measure effect from analog output stage from DAC to show how digital transport can affect it.
 
So do you know people who have measured a difference?  It isn't our place to tell you how after you claimed to know people to recommend.  If it hasn't been measured yet those people might make the measures and find nothing.  So which is it?  Do you know people who have the measurements or not?
 
Apr 24, 2017 at 6:28 AM Post #452 of 683
I can recommend people who did that. You can ask Mr. Frederic Vanden Poel from 432 Evo

http://432evo.be

Here's his post about measuremrnts.



https://m.facebook.com/groups/350786351670736?view=permalink&id=1359079614174733
 
Apr 24, 2017 at 7:24 AM Post #453 of 683
 ... Here's his post about measuremrnts. ...

 
Less handwaving and more measurements of the actual effect on the audible output of the DAC, please.
And if you do find a DAC that's audibly affected by EMI from the PC, tell us what it is so we can avoid it. Any DAC with pretensions to high fidelity that is audibly affected by upstream differences is badly engineered.
 
Apr 24, 2017 at 7:29 AM Post #454 of 683
  By the way, Fidelizer DID improve audio performance. It solved many stuttering cases in audio playback and pro audio applications. Some even bought Pro licenses to use as infrastructure to prevent audio skipping in pro audio works.

 
I don't know about anyone else but I'm more that fed up of this incessant marketing BS. Audio skipping in pro DAWs is virtually non-existent and when it does occur it's almost always due to too many CPU hungry processors. In which case, the typical solution (apart from removing processors) is to increase latency but you've stated that Fidelizer reduces latency, which will increase stuttering caused by CPU hungry plugins rather than eliminate it!!
 
It's possible under very specific, very rare circumstances that Fidelizer might help but in the vast majority of cases it's more likely to make a pro DAW more unstable. So why the marketing BS, especially here in the science forum, what's the point? I can see the point in say a forum frequented by DAW noobs (though I still object to it) but why here, where there's little/no opportunity to con DAW noobs and all you're likely to attract is being called out on the BS. How do you benefit from that?
 
G
 
Apr 24, 2017 at 9:49 AM Post #455 of 683
   
He can use the same logic to apply on highend CD transport saying it's not better than Pioneer / ASUS drive. I don't know why many audiophiles believe in his claims based on incorrect methodology to test. I can recommend some people who can do proper tests who can measure effect from analog output stage from DAC to show how digital transport can affect it.
 
By the way, Fidelizer DID improve audio performance. It solved many stuttering cases in audio playback and pro audio applications. Some even bought Pro licenses to use as infrastructure to prevent audio skipping in pro audio works. As for sound quality improvement, I have more than enough testimonials to post like every day right now. Maybe expectation bias is too strong with Fidelizer. :wink:
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 
 
I once tried with Diffmaker. Proper measurements on analog DAC is too much effort for 2-digit software. Maybe I'll do that after people being able to make sense with Diffmaker measurements.

By the way, do you guys know any other measurements to recommend besides basic RMAA metrics archimago did? Do I need to measure signal that solved stuttering too?

Regards,
Keetakawee

 
As others have already said, in this forum,  you either have objective evidence to support your claims or you don't.
 
Seem like you've never been able to develop any objective evidence and because of that, here we are again with you making claims about your product then asking others to vet them.  You keep hanging your hat on the notion that modern PCs aren't able to support audio playback without severely crippling the OS and non audio processes - can you point me to a PC currently available for sale that can't sustain audio playback with a typical Windows OS install?  Because I'm unaware of any.  Even an Atom processor based PC has worked fine for me - the audio playback load on the CPU is under 15% including Foobar and related Windows services on my Atom based system.
 
So far, the folks in this forum have been decent enough to stay out of your product thread.  Why don't you return the favor until you have something tangible to support your claims in the Sound Science forums.
 
Apr 24, 2017 at 11:37 AM Post #456 of 683
I said I can recommend people who did the test. You guys are the one who posted unreliable measurements and asked for technical measurements from me. I have no obligation to show why his measurements are unreliable or even usable. And I did make it clear that Fidelizer IMPROVE AUDIO PERFORMANCE not just sound quality. It's measurable and solved many audio problems so far since 6 years ago. :wink:
 
Also, I didn't dig this thread nor I recommend to use high power CPU. If you want to learn, go ask him out. I'm too busy for this.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee
 
Jul 6, 2017 at 8:42 PM Post #457 of 683
one thing i'm unclear on, please:
if one already has Roon, and especially a microrendu, what further good would your product do?
i mean doesn't the microrendu replace a laptop for the most part, making it an audiophile's version of a laptop? and Roon only
further enhances any signal....just trying to get clarity please.
http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/about-fidelizer/
 
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Jul 12, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #458 of 683
I don't really care about performance if it isn't audible.
 
Jul 19, 2017 at 2:22 PM Post #459 of 683
Considering the raw requirements to decode 44.1k/16bit FLAC stream are about 15MHz ARM-A7 CPU and 4MB of RAM, it's quite safe to say any computer, no matter how big or small, can do it effortlessly.
HW/SW conflicts are another matter, but those can rarely be solved with a software used for tuning up system services and processes.
 
Jul 24, 2017 at 10:23 AM Post #460 of 683
31 pages to understand that a product is being sold and bought? Wow. The guys are saying: "It makes a difference and has helped people". Well, duh. It software. Of course it "does something". People buy "better DACs" all the time and its a complete waste of time and money. Note I didn't even say "cables".

Damn. Triggered by myself. :) Anyone need a magical cable that will make your IEMs sound different? Measurable and hearable?


Snake oil. Of the harmless variety.
 
Jul 24, 2017 at 10:27 AM Post #461 of 683
My point is to try listening to something like $10-30k CD sources first. See if yours can sound better than that or make hifi shop vendors agree with you. If you haven't done that yet, you still lack highend audio experience.

Regards,
Keetakawee


Trying to sell stuff to these guys is useless. You need to go to general headphones to get people to fall for unsubstantiated, worthless marketing claims. We over here, you know, like headfi used to be, we know that a 10K CD player doesn't sound a tiny bit better or worse than lets say a android flac to decent (100 USD is high) DAC.

Why don't you try to double blind test your 30K CD PLayer to a smartphone / DAC combination? If you can pass that, and you simply won't, come back and post proof. Until then, lol is what you get.


Other guys are basing everything on "it sounds different / fuller / better". Lots of software does this. People love dipole / OB speaker sound. Recreate that and your done. Easier to sell too. People love distortion. Sell that. It will sound "different". If "different" costs money, then different = better.

It has nothing to do with "better" for people that actually understand audio.
 
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Jul 24, 2017 at 11:34 AM Post #462 of 683
I'd stop my audiophile journey if I can't tell apart between smartphone and highend sources. But I admit I probably couldn't tell them apart before starting this journey. However, it's impossible to be like that now. :frowning2:
 
Jul 24, 2017 at 11:52 AM Post #463 of 683
I'd stop my audiophile journey if I can't tell apart between smartphone and highend sources. But I admit I probably couldn't tell them apart before starting this journey. However, it's impossible to be like that now. :frowning2:

Wait until you are further down that road. Like more 10 years. Its very nice to actually accept and understand that it sounds the same. Only then you can sell snake oil moar betterer. Obviously you hit your limit of understanding right about now, as plainly obvious by your posting tirade - to the people who don't buy into high end audiophoolery.

Do some DBTs. It will really help you. I am not trying to hate on you or your work - just trying to help you understand.


Again, wrong part of the forum. People here understand that the problem you are solving are not even problems to begin with. Might have been small problems 10 years ago, but only "maybe". But as long as there are others out there, you will make sales. All is good. There are many people out there that will hear the difference!

Put your skillset to something like binaural, don't waste it coding a new mouse trap. - In my humble opinion.

You have all these high end guys "supporting you" - did you never wonder why? Its a game. You are doing well. But accept that some people don't need it / want it / dismiss it.


edit: Please understand I am writing this with the utmost respect to what you have created / built up!
 
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Jul 24, 2017 at 12:03 PM Post #464 of 683
But if you want to, I will glady go through all discussion stages with you. To speed it up:

Please quantify the difference between a cell phone as a source (flac) and a 30K CD player. Is this "night and day"? Is this 20%? 3%? Will I hear this difference in a dbt test?

My system? No. Its not good enough.
Yes, but I worked in a studio for some years. I did everything from setting up mics to cleaning heads.
No. There is no difference unless you want to hear it.
Yes. Well you see - I worked in a high end audio store for several years. We ate pizza after hours and listened to music.
No. If operated within specs, you will not hear a difference in a dbt.

If you don't believe in dbt, then you probably also believe that digital cables make a sound difference.



Well now. Do high end digital cables sound different than cheap digital cables? Please quantify the sound difference. (Please give me something except signal or null here, please)

Your turn. But we covered all the topics methinks.
 
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Jul 24, 2017 at 12:08 PM Post #465 of 683
I'd be deaf by then. :wink:
 
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