Audeze SINE Series
Dec 1, 2016 at 2:51 PM Post #2,911 of 4,774
Good points. It's actually the 800s which has more bass. I don't think all electronically produced music is badly mixed/mastered but a lot of it most definitely is and shows up in headphones particularly when they are capable of producing enough detail and extension.
I also use ether c'a although I boost the bass in those. My favorite headphones for non acoustic music have been my he-500'a and I also like my alclair rsm quad ciem's but the sines with the new earpads are recently up there too.
When I mix/master music, I prefer speakers but always check on several headphones as well as car stereos. Most times, the top end is recessed on speakers compared to headphones so it's pushed harder in mixes to compensate.
There's also the sad fact that many people in the business have simply blown out the top frequencies in their hearing and that comes out in the mix.
Club music is meant to be played loudly and most producers/artists don't think about protecting their hearing until it's too late. It even happens in the studio. People are mixing listening to the track over and over again and the volume just keeps going up and up because everyone gets more deaf as the session progresses. They come back to the mix the next day and its got all kinds of problems that weren't heard at the end of the previous night. Ive seen it happen countless times. Conversely, if mixed on headphones, music meant to be played loudly on speakers many times comes out too smooth on top.
Don't even get me started on the dynamic compression aspect...

You're right in that the HD800 (hd800s included) is very analytical and many times not particularly enjoyable but I use them as a tool to clearly hear what's really there, kind of like a microscope.

I find the sines as a portable over ear solution (with new pads) can't be beat. It's not the deepest soundstage but the frequencies are there and can be tuned physically (toilet paper or?) or with eq (cipher).
They are definitely worth working with and kill anything else remotely in their price range imho.


if I get headphone cable from Plus Sound gold plated copper with that reduce the harshness that I'm hearing.   Or should I change the headphone.  There no point to listen to a set of headphones that make you feel uneasy.  thanks 
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 4:32 PM Post #2,912 of 4,774
I've been turning my EQ on and off for days now, using my Sine and X3ii. Definitely notice the harsh treble without the EQ, just about every song I try. Definitely get improvement by turning 16K down by 4 or 5. Tyll nailed it in his review at Innerfidelity. I've tried "accepting" the treble without EQ and assuming it must be OK or Audeze wouldn't have tuned the headphones this way. I actually really like being able to hear all the highs in a song. But then it starts bothering me after a few songs and I have to turn the EQ on again, and my ears are happier.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 4:51 PM Post #2,913 of 4,774
That's correct. You need an amp pretty much anywhere except apple iOS devices/cipher. If I am going to buy $500 headphones, I would like to use them everywhere, not just with my phone. Also the Sine scales up really well with quality amps. It also appreciates high power. The Audeze website says 500 mW - 1 W is the optimal power range for Sine to sound the best. Not many <$200 amps provide that kind of power. Fiio E12 and Cayin C5 are among the handful of them that do.

So just because I'm a geek, how do I coorelate "500 mW - 1W" to the capability of the X3ii? I found the X3 spec list here: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/39/parameters. But I'm not clear on how to figure this out. My Sines sound fine at around 40-50 volume level on high gain. But I'm curious if the numbers support this...
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 4:55 PM Post #2,914 of 4,774
 
if I get headphone cable from Plus Sound gold plated copper with that reduce the harshness that I'm hearing.   Or should I change the headphone.  There no point to listen to a set of headphones that make you feel uneasy.  thanks 


The simple answer is NO, a different cable won't change what you're hearing.  (Some people will claim otherwise.  So if you want to try another cable to compare, please do.  See if you can return it if you don't get the results you hope for.)
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 5:10 PM Post #2,915 of 4,774
  So just because I'm a geek, how do I coorelate "500 mW - 1W" to the capability of the X3ii? I found the X3 spec list here: http://www.fiio.net/en/products/39/parameters. But I'm not clear on how to figure this out. My Sines sound fine at around 40-50 volume level on high gain. But I'm curious if the numbers support this...


Take a look at rows that say output powers 1, 2 and 3. These are the output power of the amp at different headphone impedances. Sine's impedance is 20 ohms. So the closest output power of X3II is 224 mW at 16 ohms, which is below the optimal power suggested for Sine (500 mW). The Sine may still sound loud with X3II, but you will get better dynamic range and probably soundstage if you use a higher power amp.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 6:21 PM Post #2,916 of 4,774
Interesting. And a bummer. I was guessing my X3 was within range.
 
So for kicks I looked up the X5 and X7. The X5 gets to 436mW @ 16. So close, but still not quite there. The X7 with AM5 module gets to 800mW, right in the middle of the 500-1K stated range.
 
So with Fiio DAPs (as an all in one sourcing solution), you have to go all the way up to an X7 with AM5 module to match the Sine's optimal requirements? That's an expensive pairing.
 
This then got me thinking about what the Cipher cable output is and whether it really takes the Sines into "optimal" range with an iPhone? I can't find a spec for the cable so far.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 6:27 PM Post #2,917 of 4,774
 
if I get headphone cable from Plus Sound gold plated copper with that reduce the harshness that I'm hearing.   Or should I change the headphone.  There no point to listen to a set of headphones that make you feel uneasy.  thanks 


In our opinion, GPC will provide a warmer sound and may resolve your issue. Feel free to PM or email us and we can provide some recommendations if you want to give our cable a try before replacing your headphones.
 
PlusSound Stay updated on PlusSound at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/plusSound/ https://twitter.com/plussoundaudio http://plussoundaudio.com/
Dec 1, 2016 at 7:35 PM Post #2,918 of 4,774
  Interesting. And a bummer. I was guessing my X3 was within range.
 
So for kicks I looked up the X5 and X7. The X5 gets to 436mW @ 16. So close, but still not quite there. The X7 with AM5 module gets to 800mW, right in the middle of the 500-1K stated range.
 
So with Fiio DAPs (as an all in one sourcing solution), you have to go all the way up to an X7 with AM5 module to match the Sine's optimal requirements? That's an expensive pairing.
 
This then got me thinking about what the Cipher cable output is and whether it really takes the Sines into "optimal" range with an iPhone? I can't find a spec for the cable so far.


I don't think you will find the specs for the cipher cable anywhere. The X5 is quite close and I think it will sound good. I have ordered the pono player to use with Sine using the balanced output.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 1:15 AM Post #2,919 of 4,774
Hi people!
 
It looks like in a few a days i will adopt an orphan Sine that was looking for a warm daddy. Even before trying them i'm almost sure i will prefer the modded over ear option changing the pads, but i'm a little confused as different products have been recommended here. Remembering after reading looots of posts in this thread, looks like the primary option is the brainwavz HM5 (by the way, will it be better on pleather, "hybrid" or sheepskin?), but some people were happy with the MSR7's pads and there were also another ones from Vesper Audio which received very good comments. So, ¿has someone tried and compared the three or, at least, two of them? ¿Is there any consensus about which pads are the better option for modding the Sines??
 
Thank you very much in advance for the answers!
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 12:42 PM Post #2,920 of 4,774
Looking at amps now. Anyone paired the SINE to Fiio K5 or Magni 2? These amps good enough? Specs seem to say yes.
 
X3ii > K5 > Sine = GOOD?
 
I'd prefer the Fiio due to the docking capability with my X3ii. But I'll sacrifice that capability if the Magni 2 is better in the power department.
 
Dec 3, 2016 at 8:42 AM Post #2,921 of 4,774
I finding it a travesty and complete blunder by Audeze to not have perforated the inside of the leather pads for neutralize the internal air pressure which affects the driver.
These stock pads can suck your eardrums when pulling or pushing on ear.
The driver diaphragm can be heard to be affected as well..

This is a complete oversight and all stock pads should be recalled if Audeze doesn't want driver failure returns in following years.

The Sine to me is a truly exceptional headphone with a truly dismal earpad.

I would equate the Sine to a portable Utopia as an analogy.
I would also similarly equate the HiFiMan Edition S to a portable HD800.

At first I was preferring the Edition S due to more open soundstage,
But for the true purpose of portability and musical involvement,
I am now preferring the Sine to any other portable.

The issue is now to look for the ideal earpads, so now I am onto a journey to find the best earpads ...
 
Dec 3, 2016 at 7:49 PM Post #2,923 of 4,774
The best solution to relive the pressure is to wear it more often, or place it on a basketball and leave it there. The pressure really eases after a month if you keep using it. Also it is important to adjust the angle of the earpads to balance the pressure on the front and back of the ears. For me, it has become quite comfortable by now.
 
Dec 3, 2016 at 9:36 PM Post #2,924 of 4,774
The best solution to relive the pressure is to wear it more often, or place it on a basketball and leave it there. The pressure really eases after a month if you keep using it. Also it is important to adjust the angle of the earpads to balance the pressure on the front and back of the ears. For me, it has become quite comfortable by now.


Im talking about the sound pressure that causes fatigue. Not clamping force.
 
Dec 3, 2016 at 10:17 PM Post #2,925 of 4,774
Im talking about the sound pressure that causes fatigue. Not clamping force.


I am sorry to hear that. When I first started using the Sine, I noticed the change in sound upon pulling or pushing the earpads from the ear surface. This effect was quite pronounced in the beginning because of the strong clamping force. Now it is completely gone as the headband pressure has eased. I only notice it if I deliberately press upon the ear cups and then pull them outward. Also through experimentation, I have found the most optimal way of putting on the headphones that work for me, which is to place the headphones slightly forward so that the front of the earpads rest partially on the face next to the ears rather than entirely on the ears. This way, there is some venting for equating air pressure. I also noticed, the imaging and layering of instruments improve because the ear cups are at an angle instead of being parallel to the ears. This works for me, but no guarantee it will work for you because each one's ear structure is different.
 

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