Beethoven Symphonies - Page 29

I've heard very good things about the "new" RCA Living Stereo SACD of Munch's B5 and 6. I have it on order; will report on arrival.

Anyone heard any of the "new" Masur SACDs on Pentatone?

I haven't heard these specifically, but they are reissues of his Leipzig cycle on Philips. Those performances were nothing spectacular and a bit boring, IMHO. But, they may be all right if you'd like Beethoven in surround SACD. 4-channel surround, these are old quad recordings.

Audiophile Audition has reviewed them in this month's issue. They really liked them. Classictoday didn't care for them much, however, and said the sound wasn't great. To each their own. Interesting how we all hear different things. Such is the power of music.

I'm not a big fan of Beethoven cycles. I'd rather pick and choose on a symphony by symphony basis. Each symphony is so different and so multi-faceted, it's hard to pick one interpretation for all. I have Blomstedt's bargain Brilliant box and it's very good, and I have Karajan's first cycle. I suppose either of those are good starting places, but I find myself returning to individual performances rather than sets... Here are my favorites...

Kleiber's 5th is a must have... as is Toscannini's 7th. I'm very fond of Giulini's Eroica and Bohm's Pastoral, even though they are totally different than Kleiber and Toscannini. For the 9th, I like Karajan's second version.

I'm the same way in the Ring of the Nibelungen too... (Karajan for Rhinegold, Leinsdorf for Walkure, Goodall for Siegfried and Solti for Gotterdammerung.)

See ya
Steve

I think this was released earlier from Phillips. He was no fireball when he was with the NYPO, and I don't think these are going to be very interesting either. Masur and Beethoven? I think the man really doesn't do the greatest job with that composer, or at least he didn't do it in NY with the NYPO. who knows, maybe he did better with the Leipzig Gewandhaus, but I doubt it. In East Germany, getting a podium was as much a function of how well you dealt with party bureaucracy as how well you dealt with an orchestra.

I haven't heard his Beethoven, but Masur's Mendelssohn with Leipzig is anything but dull. He's a better conductor than you give him credit for.

See ya
Steve

Nice to see the Goodall Siegfried mentioned. You should give us your thoughts in more detail on the Wagner thread - it's down there somewhere...

A fellow after my own heart. I have three set Rings and another sort of hodge-podged together. Leinsdorf's Walkure would (probably) be more famous had the Solti Ring not hit and eclipsed it. I think Leinsdorf had the better cast, in reference to Solti. Hotter was in fine fettle for the '35 Walter Walkure recordings, but things had gotten a bit tenuous by Solti's time.

There was a Wagner thread somewhere around here.

He was alright with romantics like Mendelsohn, but his Beethoven was just ordinary, and in a town like NYC where the audience is so sophisticated, ordinary is really unacceptable. What he was good at was getting along with the trustees. Then again so was Zubin Mehta. Conducting the NYPO is like pitching for the NY Yankees. They tell you it's different from working everywhere else, but until you are there you don't know how different it is. Remember, that's a podium that has felt the feet of Mahler, Walter, Stokowsky, Mitropoulos, Bernstein, Boulez, and so many other great guest conductors. It's a very heavy tradition, like the Yankees, and the eye of NY has laser vision. Not everyone rises to the occasion every time. Masur was certainly better than Mehta (who was a great disappointment), but he wasn't really the caliber that NY needed. Now, with Maazel part time, it's sad to see the PO just sinking again. I wish they could find someone young with the fire in the belly who would just stay there and make that orchestra work. Another NY problem is the fact that only top names are usually considered and the top names have so many other contractual obligations that they cannot spend the necessary time to put their stamp on the orchestra.

But who is there of the calibre you speak? Maazel, Masur, Abbado, Davis are at the end of their careers, and all are decidedly 2nd rate compared to the giants mentioned (Walter, Stokowski, Mitropolous, etc). There are some exciting younger conductors, to be sure. But can anyone honestly, and seriously, consider Conlon, Salonen, Harding, and friends the equal of past generations? No way. For many reasons (read Lebrecht), the art of conducting is being diluted and homogenized -- but not lost. There in no one alive today who is even worthy to mentioned with Toscanini, Furtwangler, Kleiber, Mitropolous, Barbirolli or Bernstein. Many of the younger conductors have great ears, fine techniques, schmoozing ability, and more, but it's that undefinable quality involving traditions, style and such that has been irretrievable lost. Oh, there will still be great concerts and recordings, but legendary? I don't think so. Masur is certainly competent. The perfect Kapellmeister. His recordings and performances are usually well-drilled, accurate, smooth and devoid of real excitement and fire. Just listen to his desultory Tchaikovsky cycle and you'll see what I mean. His Mahler 7th is the worst ever. His Prokofieff nice, and that's the problem. Erich Leinsdorf had an explanation as to what went wrong with conductors: they stopped training in the opera house. All of of the greats in the first half of the 20th C learned that way, and then things shifted (especially in America) to the concert hall, and too many conductors never spent time mastering their skill with opera. And now we see the results. Of course, A. Hitler didn't help either, but that's too off-topic. At least I have hope in Finland.

Jaap van Zweden - Residentie Orkest - Beethoven Symphonies 1-9
Philips 476 028 - 2 SACD

Sound- typical polyhymnia full, warm sound
Performance- not your typical maestro/kapellmeister interpretations
but mostly excellent IMO

Given a few more years, I think Esa-Pekka Salonen might do very well in NY. Hopefully, someone will appear who can do the job here. But, NY is an historic venue that is very intimidating to many. The NY audience also is very intimidating as is the press coverage in a national newspaper and the coverage in most of the music publications. It takes a special personality that can thrive in this atmosphere, which is the biggest problem.

I think the problem is judging them by warhorses like Beethoven or Tchaikovsky symphonies. What motivation is there to do more than a routine job when that particular path has been trod so many times before? That said, I agree that the quality of conductors just ain't what it used to be. I attribute that to two things... 1) the lack of importance of music in American culture as a whole and 2) the dillution of live performance by recordings.

See ya
Steve

There is much truth to your observation from my perspective. Plenty has been written about the gradual slowing down and smoothing out of performances by current generation of conductors........Mahler is great case in point.

If not for the HIP movement for Mozart, Beethoven etc we would not have much reason to buy many modern performances since older catalog is cheaper and better performance in general