Beethoven Symphonies - Page 28

Walter's partial mono cycle in the 1940's and 50's with the New York Philharmonic generally moved along. The later stereo cycle (late 1950's and early 1960's) with the Columbia Symphony is slower, mainly due to old age. After the first three movements of the 7th had been taped, the producer remarked to Walter that his interpretation of the work had become much slower than it used to be. Walter looked surprised and said, "Has it?" The producer played the earlier NYP recording to Walter the next morning and then played back the new recording for comparison. Walter was shocked, and "whipped up" the last movement on the new recording to match the energy of the earlier recording. I find the stereo cycle to have some lovable parts, though it is kind of slack overall. I always regret that those late stereo recordings made so many people think of Bruno Walter as this warm, cuddly conductor, when his earlier recordings are so full of fire!

I also only know the Krips from the vinyl release from years ago, which wasn't of the highest quality. I have heard that the current CD release sounds much better. I find Krips a little too polite for Beethoven, though. I prefer his Mozart.

For slow Beethoven that still has spring and impetus, I remain committed to Klemperer's stereo cycle.

Did Otto Klemperer conduct a stereo cycle? Where may I find the information?

The Krips cycle is excellent, sound it glorious, playing superb. Krips was a highly respected and very fine conductor, but didn't seek out, and couldn't maintain "star status". His years in Cincinnati were tremendous. His Beethoven cycle, when on the "original" Everest disks sound fine. It was the later cheap versions that ruined it: the transfers were made from copies of copies. Several years ago the original master tapes were used for a new CD set, and I like it very much -- but it is a mid-20th century sound. Just make sure you don't get the cheap Bescol set -- yellow/black box. Get the Everest release. This set will not displace Karajan, Bernstein/Vienna, or other top sets, but it's still very good.

The Klemperer stereo set is on EMI, contains 9 disks, all symphonies, piano concerti, Choral Fantasy, some overtures. For some people, it's great stuff. I think of a block of granite when I hear them. I find his Beethoven grossly overplayed -- slow, turgid, too heavy. Powerful, maybe. Beethoven with a huge weight problem. THe set is highly regarded by some. The orchestral playing is superb, as is the sound. For a more propulsive Beethoven with almost the same contents, I'd get the Schmidt-Isserstedt version on London. Much more refreshing.

The Walter set on Columbia (Sony) in stereo with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, features generally slow tempos, lack of adreniline and is not competitive. It is, well, dull. The 6th is very nice, the 7th has some good points, but other than that I don't care for it. It was the first LP set I had, and the Reader's Digest version with Leibowitz was a shocking revelation: this music does have fire in it! Not with Walter. A shame, since his Brahms and Dvorak from the same period are actually excellent readings. BTW: the Walter set is available at some book retailers for $20 or so -- no notes or anything fancy and the sound is better than the Bruno Walter Edition disks.

I have to disagree. I have the original Everest set, "Special Edition/Recorded on 33mm Magnetic Film" and the sound is not bad, but it's nothing to write home about either. Also, there are no liner notes, so it is just a box with the lps. Ofcourse, perhaps it's just one of the transfer sets, but if so, it would be difficult to tell if Everest themselves issued them. Btw, he is conducting the LSO for this cycle and the box gives no dates of performances. The Lps are individually marked with some serial numbers, but that's all the documentation that it has. It is really done on the cheap, and I was sure that Everest had just picked up the masters from another company that had dropped them.

I'll listen to them later today and let you know what I think from a fresh hearing rather than just memory.

Interesting. I find the Schmidt-Isserstedt to be pleasant but not compelling. Klemp is definitely granite. His set has a high love or hate factor for most folks, that's for sure.

Leibowitz! Yes!! Now THERE is some great Beethoven conducting. I can't believe how little known his set is. It beats Klemp, Szell, Walter, and Toscanini hands down. Plus, I think it is safe to say that he anticipated the kind of approach that is dominant now: Much leaner and more direct than, say, von Karajan. That's not to say that it goes anywhere near the territory explored by Gardiner and Zinman, but it was certainly a set ahead of its time.

Krips set is not marked by what would today be termed fast tempi. It is not Beethoven to light a fire either; they are far from dynamic interpretations. The sound quality is not particularly good either, with some reverb (very slight) and very light on the bass. If pressed, I would describe the sound as thin.

Edit: There is also some very noticeable tape hiss on some of the symphonies.

I followed advice in this thread and ordered the DG Karajan box set on SACD. After some shipping delays I finally got it and finally found time to sit down to it. I'm on symphony 3 now and while I have no point of reference as to the performances the sound quality is excellent. I'm listening to the SACD stereo layer on my Philips 963sa --> Raptor with Philips / Amperex --> AT W1000 Thats some really beautiful music and a fine addition to my collection. Thanks for the advice.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...sical&n=507846

Now that you've bought the HvK, it's time for you to get some other cycles for reference. Try the Gardiner, available at yourmusic.com at an excellent price (search artist: John Eliot Gardiner) or the Zinman (Arte Nova) also available very reasonably at Amazon.

Once you love Beethoven, you must get more, and more, and more!

I will have to check it out. Its great music but not what I really listen to although trying to get in to Thanks for the guidance

Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra

This may have already been discussed in this thread, so I'm sorry if it's redundant. But, anyone looking for a recording of Beethoven 4 & 5, need look no further than the recent release with Osmo Vanska and the Minnesota Orchestra. Just a phenomenal recording in all respects. The playing is world class, Vanska is on extremely top form, and the recording is one of the best I've heard (of anything).

This is a hybrid SACD and the sound is very true to what Orchestra Hall in Minneapolis, Minnesota really sounds like. I can vouch for that.

The wealth of details Vanska brings out in these two works is amazing. And the dynamics! Amazing what happens when you push orchestras to their limits, musically. Of course none of this sacrifices energy, there is plenty of that all around.

Just a fantastic recording. This is the first disc toward a complete cycle. Who needs another Beethoven cycle is the question, but when it's as good as this, everyone needs it.

I have this recording. It is indeed excellent. As to who needs another Beethoven cycle? Around here, multiple cycles is the rule rather than the exception. If you like the Vannska, you should look at the Thomas Fey recordings.

Well, conducting is my trade, so I buy as many recordings as I can. Glad to see I'll fit in here. 5 cycles plus many singles as of right now.

I've wondered about the Fey recordings. They've received some noteworthy attention in some circles. I've yet to buy some recordings that are "HIP-minded." Not that I haven't listened to any, I just normally can't stand to listen to them. Ex: I find Gardiner devoid of any musicality. His Ninth was a complete failure, IMHO. He must have won some speed records with that cycle.

Though, the Fey is a mixture of period and modern; modern strings, period winds, brass and percussion. I might take a liking to them as it's usually the awful string sound I can't take in the "HIP" recordings.

Just my .02 of course.

The Fey recordings are excellent as are most of the Zinman (except for the 9th, which I've labeled the "wham-bam, thankyou ma'am" symphony). Fey is or was a protege of Harnoncourt, but his Beethoven is thankfully more energetic than Harnoncourt's, which I find rather tedious. He loves the dynamic play, keeps his rhythms quick without them feeling rushed. His Haydn is also excellent, as are Harnoncourt's new Paris Symphonies recordings.

Btw, I particularly like Vannska's 4th. It's probably one of my favorite recordings of that. Hopefully he'll do the Eroica soon, and I have yet to find a Pastoral that really satisfies me completely.