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Beethoven Symphonies - Page 27

post #391 of 944
7/12/05 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSmith08
I think it has been pointed out here, but DG is in love with spot-miking. From what I've been told, many labels were in the 70s, but since decided that spot-miking wasn't the thing to do. DG never quite made the transition. I understand that there are always new experiments, and spot-miking isn't the work of the devil. However, one expects a certain level of fidelity to the performance that various recording and mixing tricks cannot provide. Some of the more recent stuff (Boulez in Bruckner's 8th and his Mahler cycle) isn't bad. However, when one sees what EMI is doing with their GROTC remasters and Teldec's always-high quality standards, DG seems a bit behind the game. However, as I think I intimated, the spottiness of the quality bothers me more than the quality.
The story that came through the grapevine is that back in the late 80's, DG bought a mixing board with 48 channels. The engineer is said to have commented, "Now, at last I can record an orchestra!" If this story is true, that's approaching 1 microphone for every 2 instruments in an average-sized symphony orchestra. No wonder the DG sound has turned into an acoustic Frankenstein on so many releases. What's really amazing is that sometimes they still make recordings that sound good (though very, very rarely anything that sounds great). Avoid anything with a soloist if you want anything approaching realistic balance. Abbado's Mahler Wunderhorn songs are trashed by the "star" spotlighting that makes Thomas Quasthoff's voice bigger than the combined sound of the orchestra.
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post #392 of 944
7/12/05 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from HFR
The story that came through the grapevine is that back in the late 80's, DG bought a mixing board with 48 channels. The engineer is said to have commented, "Now, at last I can record an orchestra!" If this story is true, that's approaching 1 microphone for every 2 instruments in an average-sized symphony orchestra. No wonder the DG sound has turned into an acoustic Frankenstein on so many releases. What's really amazing is that sometimes they still make recordings that sound good (though very, very rarely anything that sounds great). Avoid anything with a soloist if you want anything approaching realistic balance. Abbado's Mahler Wunderhorn songs are trashed by the "star" spotlighting that makes Thomas Quasthoff's voice bigger than the combined sound of the orchestra.
Oops, I just got that recording. I should have guessed that if they can make a piano sound as big as the matterhorn they can do the same thing for a human voice.
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post #393 of 944
7/12/05 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from HFR
The story that came through the grapevine is that back in the late 80's, DG bought a mixing board with 48 channels. The engineer is said to have commented, "Now, at last I can record an orchestra!" If this story is true, that's approaching 1 microphone for every 2 instruments in an average-sized symphony orchestra. No wonder the DG sound has turned into an acoustic Frankenstein on so many releases. What's really amazing is that sometimes they still make recordings that sound good (though very, very rarely anything that sounds great). Avoid anything with a soloist if you want anything approaching realistic balance. Abbado's Mahler Wunderhorn songs are trashed by the "star" spotlighting that makes Thomas Quasthoff's voice bigger than the combined sound of the orchestra.
Better living through technology, right?

Of course, in DG's defense, people have been making downright odd-sounding recordings for rather a long time. Culshaw's work on Solti's Ring produced one of the strangest sounding recordings ever, but it works, as I think that's what Wagner wanted.

As much as I dislike him, I am developing an affinity for Von Karajan's '63 cycle. It is pretty straightforward in recording and mastering (though I prefer the Philharmonie to the Jesus-Christus-Kirche). I don't know what's been done to it in the SACD process, but I shall endeavor to find out.
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post #394 of 944
7/12/05 at 2:27pm
I just finished listening to MacKerras Pastoral and Zinman's Pastoral. I guess Zinman wins! The dynamic balance, forward movement on tempo (and the two are both speedy), and general sound just edge me into the Zinman camp. I just like this set more and more. I'm so sorry I didn't get 3 or 4 sets when they were $5.95 to give as Xmas/Chanukah presents!

I also have the new Zinman release of the overtures. Also very nice. I'm a very happy rabbit here.
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post #395 of 944
7/12/05 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
the Zinman camp. I just like this set more and more. I'm so sorry I didn't get 3 or 4 sets when they were $5.95 to give as Xmas/Chanukah presents!
I did just that, and I think I bought 'em up. Sorry!
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post #396 of 944
7/13/05 at 11:56am
Just received the Thomas Fey Beethoven. It's very good. Excellent in fact. I listened to the B4 and 6 last night and I loved them. They have a nice fast tempo, and what is even more important, terrific dynamism. They are definitely up there for best symphonies. Fey certainly shows Harnoncourt's influence, or perhaps now Harnoncourt is showing Fey's influence, as Harnoncourt's Paris Symphonies show similar play with the dynamics paired with fast tempi. For anyone who has spent the money, Harnoncourt's Beethoven symphonies are really sluggish, and example of Harnoncourt when he has just gone completely wrong.
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post #397 of 944
7/13/05 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Just received the Thomas Fey Beethoven. It's very good. Excellent in fact. I listened to the B4 and 6 last night and I loved them. They have a nice fast tempo, and what is even more important, terrific dynamism. They are definitely up there for best symphonies. Fey certainly shows Harnoncourt's influence, or perhaps now Harnoncourt is showing Fey's influence, as Harnoncourt's Paris Symphonies show similar play with the dynamics paired with fast tempi. For anyone who has spent the money, Harnoncourt's Beethoven symphonies are really sluggish, and example of Harnoncourt when he has just gone completely wrong.
I think I might try his 1 and 2 - did you get that one also?
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post #398 of 944
7/13/05 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Just received the Thomas Fey Beethoven. It's very good. Excellent in fact. I listened to the B4 and 6 last night and I loved them. They have a nice fast tempo, and what is even more important, terrific dynamism. They are definitely up there for best symphonies. Fey certainly shows Harnoncourt's influence, or perhaps now Harnoncourt is showing Fey's influence, as Harnoncourt's Paris Symphonies show similar play with the dynamics paired with fast tempi. For anyone who has spent the money, Harnoncourt's Beethoven symphonies are really sluggish, and example of Harnoncourt when he has just gone completely wrong.
I take it, then, it would not be worth it to buy the Harnoncourt set.
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post #399 of 944
7/13/05 at 8:05pm
Harnoncourt is generally excellent, IF you like the sound of the smaller orchestra (I do), generally quick tempi, and live performances. There are hardly any audible flubs, and the audience is very quiet. Just know that Harnoncourt tries valiantly to follow Beethoven's often very fast tempos and some people don't like it; they prefer a more romanticized Beethoven. I've liked all the Harnoncourt Beethoven, and the recent set of Piano concerti is superb, too.
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post #400 of 944
7/13/05 at 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhaub
Harnoncourt is generally excellent, IF you like the sound of the smaller orchestra (I do), generally quick tempi,
When I listened to the Harnoncourt Beethoven, I was not struck by particularly fast tempi. Reviewing the times given in my set doesn't show them as being particularly rapid, especially when compared to Zinman, Gardiner, or MacKerras all of which use quicker tempi. Although it's been a while and my memory may be at fault, I think the 63 HvK cycle also has quicker tempi than the NH, but without taking out the set I really can't say that with any authority. The pastoral from Harnoncourt's cycle is the one of the slowest ones I've ever heard and can only be termed turgid. I don't care for that cycle, but it's not because the orchestra is smaller. The work just doesn't appeal to me, and I was very disappointed listening to it because in general I love Harnoncourt's work.
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post #401 of 944
7/13/05 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis
I think I might try his 1 and 2 - did you get that one also?
It's on order, but has not arrived yet. The vagaries of amazon partners. Another set that I enjoy which is the more in the big band, magisterial Beethoven style is the Blomstedt cycle from Brilliant Classics. One of it's highpoints is the 9th, which has terrific singing. All of the symphonies are done extremely well and with excellent sound quality, even if they don't break any new ground.

PSmith,

Sorry, I don't recommend the Harnoncourt Beethoven, but then again it may be to your taste. It was not to mine.
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post #402 of 944
7/16/05 at 12:05pm
I received the Fey B1&2. They are also excellent, especially with respect to their sound quality which is slightly better than the Zinman. They are very similar in style to the Zinman, strong forward tempo driven motion punctuated by the broad dynamic play. They are a joy to listen to, so I recommend them highly. It would be hard for me to choose between these and the Zinman, but if anyone doesn't have the Zinman, then this would be a good introduction to the faster tempo, modern orchestra performances. Ofcourse, at twice the price of this single cd you can get the whole Zinman cycle, and that's the bargain of the century. I only hope Fey records the whole cycle, as I'm sure whatever he puts out will be very interesting.
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post #403 of 944
7/16/05 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
Hmmm the Fey sounds interesting, and better sound quality than the Zinman, gotta be pretty good then!
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post #404 of 944
7/22/05 at 8:26pm
Anybody have experience with either the Krips cycle on Everest, or the Stereo Walter cycle? I was thinking about one or the other as a slow counterpoint to Zinman/Gardiner.
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post #405 of 944
7/22/05 at 8:39pm
I have the Krips cycle on vinyl. It's one of my father's sets, but he didn't seem to play it much. From what I can tell (I haven't listened to all of them) they are interpretations pretty much in the mid 20th century fashion. The sound quality was not outstanding, especially for vinyl. If they have been remastered the sound quality on cd may actually be better.

I don't know much about the Walter cycle at all. I just wonder if they also suffer from the slower tempos that became so popular 50 odd years ago.
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