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Beethoven Symphonies - Page 22

post #316 of 944
6/29/05 at 5:57pm
Well, its my first Beethoven other then a part of varies compilations etc. so I don't have a point of reference and only now starting to get in to classical I have one of the Beethoven's symphonies I think the 6th, not sure, on one of the sampler SACDs and I really liked it.
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post #317 of 944
6/30/05 at 12:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis
I'm currently on a "historical recordings" jag, and picked up the '42 Furtwangler B9. PSmith, you are right - this is one simply amazing interpretation. The level of tension built up in the first movement is quite unlike anything I've ever heard, and I own or have heard literally dozens of recordings of the Ninth. Of course, it's interesting to speculate on the historical circumstances, but the recording stands on its own merits. (The sound is bad, but not when you compare it to say the 1924 Fried Mahler 2nd - now that's really bad sound!).

Speaking of historical German (Nazi era) recordings, PSmith have you heard the Abendroth 1943 Bayreuth Meistersinger? I have not, but I've heard rumors that it is another legendary, war-infused performance. Do I sense a Wagner thread about to burst forth?
The '42 9th is probably one of the very few really ecstatic moments in music in the 20th century. I am not sure that anyone understood it at the time, but looking back, I think we can see a performance of extraordinary rarity and feeling. The dam of feelings that everyone had been keeping stable from '33 on (either way) burst, and a flood swept over an already transcendant score. It is the perfect 9th, and the shame of it is that it is unendurable to repeat often. The energy level and raw emotion are such that it is draining to do it over and over again. Also, getting used to it diminishes its glory.

As to the Meistersinger: I have not heard that one, but it is on the short list of the really great ones. However, a Bayreuth recording from 1943 creates a set of problems that are not necessarily musical or technical. I would love to see a Wagner thread on the scale of the Mahler, Beethoven, or Bruckner threads, but I am not sure if there is the widespread interest and collections of Wagner that benefit the Mahler and Beethoven threads.

However, I am willing to try if you are.
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post #318 of 944
6/30/05 at 1:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusf
Great thread, very informative read but quite long

I just pulled a trigger and ordered a copy of the Karajan Hybrid SACD box set

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...sical&n=507846

Thanks guys
See if you can track down elements from his '77 set. He manages to do some things a bit differently, and probably better. However, I think the '63 set is the best general cycle for anyone beginning to get interested in Beethoven. He is a marvelous home base to venture from and return to.
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post #319 of 944
6/30/05 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusf
Well, its my first Beethoven other then a part of varies compilations etc. so I don't have a point of reference and only now starting to get in to classical I have one of the Beethoven's symphonies I think the 6th, not sure, on one of the sampler SACDs and I really liked it.
I have the cycle in stereo, and aside from the 6th, which is awful, the rest hold up pretty well. As for the 6th, you are going to have to shop around for one to use as reference, Hvk's is definitely inferior.
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post #320 of 944
6/30/05 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
I have the cycle in stereo, and aside from the 6th, which is awful, the rest hold up pretty well. As for the 6th, you are going to have to shop around for one to use as reference, Hvk's is definitely inferior.
Thanks! guess after all I have no point of reference so I suspect it will be 'all good' to me I have three deferent performances of the Holst's Planets and one is clearly vastly superior to the others.
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post #321 of 944
6/30/05 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusf
Thanks! guess after all I have no point of reference so I suspect it will be 'all good' to me I have three deferent performances of the Holst's Planets and one is clearly vastly superior to the others.
Try George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra for a solid, non HIP (Historically Informed Performance) of the symphonies. This one is available very cheaply at amazon. If you want another set of symphonies for reference, his versions which are excellent can be acquired at Amazon, individually used very, very economically. For a complete set on period instruments and at revised (quicker) tempos, the John Eliot Gardiner boxed set is available at yourmusic.com (search gardiner as artist).

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post #322 of 944
6/30/05 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
I have the cycle in stereo, and aside from the 6th, which is awful, the rest hold up pretty well. As for the 6th, you are going to have to shop around for one to use as reference, Hvk's is definitely inferior.
The '63 one? Try his '77 outing (if you haven't). I always liked in a peripheral way. I am not a fan of the Pastorale, so my ability to judge is probably weak. However, I think he manages to create an interesting sound in '77.

I have found that I like his '77 set a bit more than his '63 set. He has real feelings in '77, as opposed to later where he becomes obsessed with smooth, safe sound. However, as he got older, he managed to pick up a mystical sound. Nothing like Furtwangler, but still, he could still do it '77.
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post #323 of 944
6/30/05 at 3:07pm
I don't know whether it was the symphony or HvK, but I haven't heard a decent pastorale by him. Boehm, Szell, Gardiner, Hogwood (yes, I've changed my opinion since it first came out), Blomstedt all do much better on that symphony which I think has suffered lately in popularity for some reason. Harnoncourt's Pastorale, on his set, is also not the best imho, as his tempos are so slow that it feels as if he is sleepwalking through jello.
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post #324 of 944
6/30/05 at 3:19pm
Speaking of Pastorales, I was disappointed by the Orfeo release that came out right after Carlos Kleiber died, featuring him in a rare performance of the work. The 3rd and 4th movements were snappy and fun, but most of the rest of it was just too fast and unsettled. Which is not to say that I like slow Pastorales! Flowing and serene works best, I suppose. But I've still never heard a performance that made me feel like the second movement wasn't too long. I guess I'm just too restless to fully enjoy Beethoven's 6th.

M
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post #325 of 944
6/30/05 at 3:34pm
Mark,

Try the Zinman. His pastoral is very zippy without being as superficial as the HvK. The Hogwood is also very good and not boring at all. The problem for a lot of people with the pastoral is that it is a very deliberately measured piece of music. It's interesting that it was composed at the same time that Beethoven was composing the fifth, and the two are really almost antithetical in conception. In fact, the composer debated whether he should have the pastoral numbered 5 as it was completed before the one he finally designated as his fifth.
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post #326 of 944
7/1/05 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Mark,

Try the Zinman. His pastoral is very zippy without being as superficial as the HvK. The Hogwood is also very good and not boring at all. The problem for a lot of people with the pastoral is that it is a very deliberately measured piece of music. It's interesting that it was composed at the same time that Beethoven was composing the fifth, and the two are really almost antithetical in conception. In fact, the composer debated whether he should have the pastoral numbered 5 as it was completed before the one he finally designated as his fifth.
I'll put it on my list of things to investigate. I'd like to pick up Zinman's whole cycle, judging by the comments I've heard about it.
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post #327 of 944
7/1/05 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from HFR
Speaking of Pastorales, I was disappointed by the Orfeo release that came out right after Carlos Kleiber died, featuring him in a rare performance of the work. The 3rd and 4th movements were snappy and fun, but most of the rest of it was just too fast and unsettled. Which is not to say that I like slow Pastorales! Flowing and serene works best, I suppose. But I've still never heard a performance that made me feel like the second movement wasn't too long. I guess I'm just too restless to fully enjoy Beethoven's 6th.

M
Carlos Kleiber's B6 is a very controversal recording. He had B6 recorded by DG very long time ago, but when DG was planning to publicize it, the original tape was missing. The existing master tape was recorded with an entry level recorder by one of his friends, the sound quality is inevitably bad.
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post #328 of 944
7/1/05 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
Try George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra for a solid, non HIP (Historically Informed Performance) of the symphonies. This one is available very cheaply at amazon. If you want another set of symphonies for reference, his versions which are excellent can be acquired at Amazon, individually used very, very economically. For a complete set on period instruments and at revised (quicker) tempos, the John Eliot Gardiner boxed set is available at yourmusic.com (search gardiner as artist).
I got Szell's from SonyMusicStore.com with acceptable price several months ago. The performing level is fantastic. The only problem is that B4 and B7 are no longer available as a single CD. Sony put a so-called original jacket box set into market, but the price label seems being launched together with a rocket.
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post #329 of 944
7/1/05 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by juneamour
I got Szell's from SonyMusicStore.com with acceptable price several months ago. The performing level is fantastic. The only problem is that B4 and B7 are no longer available as a single CD. Sony put a so-called original jacket box set into market, but the price label seems being launched together with a rocket.
Well, the B4 is available paired with the 8th for about 4.75 at Amazon, and you can try a pre-order there for the 7th. The original jackets is sold at yourmusic.com for about $60.00, but that's not much help for you right now.
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post #330 of 944
7/2/05 at 12:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel
Have you heard the new Norrington/Hanssler live set? We discussed them here briefly although I have not gone back and done direct comparisons with his original set (too many fish to fry lately)........Bernstein/Sony set also highly regarded by me except for the bizzare treatment of 5th symphony 1st movement.
I lost the Norrington CD along with 23 other disks and haven't replaced it yet. Just replaced 2 Chopin CDs with 6 & 1 Aretha Franklin disk for the Atlantic box set and her first two CDs. Maybe when I get to replacing the Beethoven, I'll pick up the live Norrington.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
You may want to try the Mackerras on the 6th, I find his whole set wonderful, he loses me some on the 9th, but having payed $17 for the whole set, I am very pleased! Sound on the whole set is top notch too.
... And Mackerras 6th. Thanks.

It sucks losing a bunch of disks at once, but it's sure fun replacing them.
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