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Beethoven Symphonies - Page 8

post #106 of 944
I agree that my choices are very limited if I restrict myself to SACDs and DVD-As. But, luckily I'm also satisfied with some of the modern performances that I've purchased, and that are recorded on Redbook CDs. BTW, thanks for mentioning the Chailly Mahler recordings. I'll follow-up with regard to them, as I'm especially interested in Mahler's 4th Symphony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
No what I am saying is you'll be limiting the number of peroformances quite a bit by only getting modern ones, I absolutely love the Chailly Mahler recordings, modern and wonderful, but if I didnn't like the performances as well, I wouldn't keep them. and by going with SACD and DVD-A it limits the field even more. I don't know if there are ANY modern performances on SACD of Beethovens Symphonies. I too wish there were more, but sadly, it costs a lot to produce these recrodings, so it's not being done as often as anyone would like.
post #107 of 944
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg
I agree that my choices are very limited if I restrict myself to SACDs and DVD-As. But, luckily I'm also satisfied with some of the modern performances that I've purchased, and that are recorded on Redbook CDs.
Well let us know what you run across for modern performances. Again my Zinmann CD didn't arrive. *sigh*

Scott
post #108 of 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson
Yes, the Karl Bohm set is excellent, I have always liked it better than the von Karajan set, even during the vinyl days.



W
The Böhm set on DG is my favorite. Every once in a while, DG Japan reissues a boxed set of this cycle, with Original Image Bit Processsing remastering (the same used for The Originals series). Better sound that the DG Doubles, and a nice color photo of Herr Böhm on the box. Expensive, but worth it if you like the set, IMHO. Do a "Classic" search for "Bohm" at HMV.co.jp.

Jeffery
post #109 of 944
Thread Starter 
Is this what you mean?
post #110 of 944
Ordered the Mackerras/Beethoven set. Uses the same revised performing edition Zinman employs, and I'm curious about the similarities/differences.

BW
post #111 of 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really a connoisseur of performance. I really can't tell whether a third violinist, or a piccolo player are a smidgeon off. As long as a well recognized orchestra produces a respectable performance, and as long as the recorded sound is outstanding, I'm generally delighted. As for a well formed body, and well cut cloths, is it unreasonable to think that well formed musical bodies are still routinely generated today? And if not, then are all the audiences listening to current concerts being cheated or duped?
I recently bought a set of Beethoven piano concertos that were very uneven. The worst performance was on the Opus 78 (no 5 -- emperor) which should have been the best performance. Although the pianist played very well and the beginnning was all right, there were places where the soloist and the orchestra were not in sync, and in one part the orchestra entered late. Obviously late! It was an example of very sloppy conducting and after listening I understood why the set is almost impossible to find. Luckily I bought it used and didn't have to get upset about the amount of money spent. When you get a really great interpretation you know immediately. It is like a living organism. It breathes and pulses and just completely blows you away. When I listen to Wanda Landowska playing the Goldberg Variations on harpsichord despite the really poor audio quality (the recordings were taken from 78 discs, not the wax originals) it still is a profound experience. The greatest audiophile sound with a hack performance will sound good but it will never move you to tears.
post #112 of 944
[QUOTE=mikeg]I bought one or two Mercury Living Presence SACDs, and thought that they sounded strangely artificial (i.e., possibly over engineered), and I put them in some pile to sell on e-bay. Unfortunately, I can't find them at the moment in order to give them another hearing. As for Living Stereo SACDs, to one degree or another, the ones that I bought had poorly resolved sound (i.e., they sounded dated). I kept one of them (i.e., Beethoven's and Mendelssohn's violin concertos with Heifetz/Munch). While Heifetz's playing is magical, and his solo sound is nicely reproduced, the sound of the orchestra is poorly resolved, and therefore disappointing. IMO, there is little point in buying top notch, very expensive audio equipment, and then be disappointed by purchasing SACDs which are hyped as providing audiophile-quality sound. And, unless I'm mistaken, the Mercury Living Presence, and the Living Stereo SACDs were hyped in advertising as having audiophile-quality sound.

When it comes to the living presence SACDs I'm not sure that I don't prefer the regular cds to them. I even prefer the JVC XRCDs to some of the older performances on SACD. It's really a delicate balance, but when it comes to a performance by Munch and the Boston symphony orchestra, the original performance was at such an early date and the technology was so primitive that sometimes less is more. I have the Tchaikovsky violin concerto in D with Heifetz and Reiner on XRCD and I also have the original (treasured) LP, and I have to say that the XRCD comes extremely close to the LP. I am very satisfied with it and it's a lot easier to play and also to rip for my ipod. With the historic performances it's always going to be a tradeoff. You just have to decide what is more important to you: insight into the music or quality of the sound, and buy accordingly.
post #113 of 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
Is this what you mean?
No. That set is issued by Universal Italy, and I don't know if it uses OIBP remastering.

I mean this one:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/...536341-8309147

Unfortunately, it is out of print right now. Looks like DG Japan has issued the discs separately, though. Try an amazon.co.jp search for "Bohm Beethoven."

And I'd love to have this, but it is out of print right now as well:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/...536341-8309147


Jeffery
post #114 of 944
Thread Starter 
My Zinman Set finally arrived, cracked cases and all. Rough handling by USPS, but the discs are intact, so for $5.99 I can't argue I guess.

Scott
post #115 of 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottder
My Zinman Set finally arrived, cracked cases and all. Rough handling by USPS, but the discs are intact, so for $5.99 I can't argue I guess.
Scott
Plus this is one case where seller gets the short end on shipping fee since buyer is only charged same rate as 1CD.
post #116 of 944
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel
Plus this is one case where seller gets the short end on shipping fee since buyer is only charged same rate as 1CD.
Indeed.....time to rip these and put them on my new Karma.
post #117 of 944
I also received my Zinman yesterday late in the afternoon. The only one I have listened to is the 6th, which has a very brisk tempo, though nowhere as fast as the Karajan. He is almost identical to the Hogwood in the first movement, but for some reason, feels less rushed at the beginning, perhaps because of the phrasing. The subsequent movements are all faster than the Hogwood (and ofcourse much slower than "speedy gonzales" Karajan).

Karajan: 9:02 / 35:48
Zinman: 10:29 / 39:56
Hogwood: 10:29 / 41:39
Bilson: 11:14 / 40:58
Harnoncourt: 13:67 / 44:24

After listening to the Hogwood and Zinman, the Harnoncourt seemed like a slo-mo version! The Bilson sounded perfectly balanced, and has grown in my esteem if that is possible.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to listen more later.
post #118 of 944
Thread Starter 
I've been giving the Zinman a casual listen all day, all pretty good stuff. Though after hearing Kleiber on the 5th I have hard time listening to any other.

Scott
post #119 of 944
Hi guys

Just been reading through this thread and Bruggen's set only gets mentioned once and he gets canned. I have to say I strongly disagree with this! Most (but not all) are live recordings so sure, they may not be as technically perfect as Gardiner's studios.... but they have a wonderful sense of space about them and the music has time to breathe, rather uniquely for a period instrument performance.

Zinman's are really interesting and whacky. True he uses the new editions but he sometime's adds his own ornamentation and takes all of the controversial options when Beethoven left something unclear in the score. And that orchestra can play!

I assume you guy's have heard Carlos Kleiber's 6th? Although the sound is woefull....

BTW for any CK freaks you can get him doing Beeth 5 on DVD video plus 4+7 in Japan (not concertgebouw) on a website www.classicalvideorarities.com
You have to say the Gardiner set is great, plus karajan's first berlin.
post #120 of 944

Anyone interested in the Zinman Beethoven set?

I've satisfied my curiosity about this. Anybody else want it? PM me with a shipping address and I'll send it along.

BW
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