Please critique intended equipment connections.
Jan 30, 2015 at 1:15 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

framos917

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I have recently wanted to improve my computer listening experience. All my experience has been with listening to music thru my stereo and home theater equipment. I joined this forum about 2 years ago and received good advice on headphones and digital audio players. This found me creating more FLAC files on my laptop and now I want to improve my listening on my laptop. I have a Lenovo laptop on my desk in my home office. I have some very old Bose MediaMates that I bought to just have something better than what came with computer. I also bought a Behringer UCA-222. I wanted to connect to the Computer’s USB instead of the headphone jack. The UCA-222 also seemed to clean the music up a bit. I like the idea of a 2.1 set up. There is a lot of information in forums on active speakers. As I understand what I have read on subwoofers I will need to get a subwoofer with RCA pass through and there seems to be very few of them.
Please critique the equipment and the way I intend to connect them. Am on the right path or do I need more research?
  • Lenovo Laptop with Flac files.
  • Behringer UCA-222, connect to USB of Lenovo.
  • Dayton Audio Sub-80, connect to RCA output of UCA-222. There still seems to be a few of these available for around $100. The replacement for the Sub80 does not have RCA pas through only RCA IN.
  • Active speakers, connect to RCA input of Sub80. Either the M-Audio AV40 ($209 on Amazon) or JBL LSR305 ($300 on Amazon)

My budget goal was $300 for this, although I am still thinking of the JBL’s. I prefer the smaller size of the AV40 because of my desk size; do not know if I want to give that up.
I am not ready for a DAC as yet; I wanted to do this first.
I would appreciate any comments.
THANKS
 
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 11:56 AM Post #2 of 24
Your connection suggestion should work fine provided your sub model does have pass through.
There is always the possibility off an earth loop but it's unlikely and you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
 
Where I live a pair of AV40 costs £90. A pair of LSR305 £220. I'd still recommend getting the 305. So in your position it's a no brainer.
 
You can do it easy if you hold off on the sub. At least for now.
 
Speaking of which. You don't mention how big your room is or if you have close neighbours whose goodwill you value. If you are unlucky with your room acoustics the sub will make things (much) worse rather than better and everyone will hate you anyway.
 
See how you get on with the 5" actives on their own for a bit while you save up again. You will soon get used to the size. Consider getting some stands if you are short of space.
 
Subs are a controversial subject. Some people love them even when, technically, they sound awful. Boomy, unbalanced FR and likely to set off your room modes with music. On the other hand if you have a big room, some acoustic treatment and watch a lot of action films or play games that may not matter. Bear in mind you might be better off with a pair of 7" or 8" monitors if you listen too a lot of music at less than 110dB. That's because you don't need to go below ~45Hz for that. Even those huge bass bins you see at clubs and gigs rarely go below 40Hz if you look up the specs.
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 1:03 PM Post #3 of 24

Thanks Ronald, most helpful and informative.
 
Your reply came at a good time, it reinforced my decision on the 305 and no sub.
 
I recently went on the  web site pro audio star, to price the speakers. They had the av40 for US149 and 305 for US300, almost dead on to the English Pound price. I got into a chat on the web site with their rep who was helpful. After I talked to him about my goals  and music taste he said he didn't think I needed a sub. So I did a little testing. What got me to subs was my home theater set ups. I have a 20 by 16 media room that includes a Mirage sub woofer and then a 14 by 10 library that includes a small Sony sub woofer. I took my computer down and plugged into both systems with my laptop via HDMI. In both cases, I concluded that I preferred listening to Jazz and Classical without the sub woofer. My only reasons for the subs was for all the action movies on the Home Theater system. This need is just to enjoy the music.  I am now semi retired and have converted a 16 by 10 bedroom into an office. I agree, I will get the 305 and then go from there. Our home is on a 1/2 acre lot so no bother to neighbors.
 
Again I do appreciate your response
 
Jan 31, 2015 at 5:17 PM Post #4 of 24
That's unexpected. Seems we are in a fairly similar situation.
 
We have three small spaces now. A country cottage, my suburban workshop/office/shed and a city flat.
 
The old stone cottage has always been naturally astounding for audio. Laps up power effortlessly. Especially when Mrs Ron is absent. The shed is isn't bad and since I can do modifications to my hearts content I've got it to where I'm pretty happy with it now.
 
The big problem has always been the flat. It has to do shared duties, both for people and applications, and even though it's not exactly small (18x14x11) I've never been able to do anything with it sound wise. Not, like, properly. Anything below 50Hz and/or above 90dB and it splits into a complex matrix of peaks and troughs of dull and lumpy sludge. A Sub is out of the question.
 
After years of experimentation it turned out nice pair of 5" monitors was the optimum multimedia solution. Clean, clear, lifelike and smooth. Might not have had the grunt necessary a few years ago but very satisfying now. Right now in fact. :)
 
Wish you joy of your purchase. It's all good. 
 
Feb 1, 2015 at 1:10 PM Post #5 of 24

That was also informative and very similar to the way I seem to be going with computer audio.
 
Years back when I started my interest in stereo equipment I never saw the reason for sub woofers, considering the music I liked. I played my music on many of my friends' systems that included a sub woofer and found I did not enjoy it as much. It was only when I started to upgrade to  movies and 5.1 that I did get into the sub woofers for the music effect. In the last few years I was doing work where I would go to different sites with my laptop that included having to do detail work on my laptop with a lot of distraction around. This led me to delve more into Flac files, portable DAC-Amps and headphones. As I started wanting to upgrade my listening experience in my home office I thought I needed to use the same model of speakers and sub woofers. What I needed to do was go back to my music listening model of 2 speakers only. I don't do any computer gaming so I don't need the special effects or complexity of sub woofers in a listening area. I particularly noted how you resolved to a nice pair of 5" monitors for your  optimum multimedia solution.
 
Thanks again, good luck.
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 12:56 PM Post #6 of 24
Mr. RonaldDumsfeld's advice is very sound and your choice of electronics will bring you a lot of joy.  I've come to appreciate my desktop setup as much as my midfield setup and wish more people could understand the fidelity you can achieve these days with quality monitors and a DAC.
 
The JBL LSR305s have XLR connections so don't forget to get some XLR-RCA adapters.  You may also look into the Presonus Eris E5 monitors which is slightly cheaper ($225) and comes with RCA connections.  I've heard both and consider them to be the best two budget monitors.
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct13/articles/presonus-eris.htm
 
If you want to play hi rez files, you may also consider a different USB DAC.  While the Behringer is outstanding for the price, it only hits 48 Hz.  I would recommend you check out a JDS Labs ODAC or LH Geek Out 450 DAC.  The Geek Out 450 has the ESS9018M chip that I respect, although I have not heard the Geek Out.  If you go the used equipment route, you may be able to stay within your budget.
 
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/
http://www.lhlabs.com/marketplace/geek-out/overview.html
 
There are also a few USB interfaces from the pro industry that will give you more functionality.  Mr. Dumsfeld may be able to tell you a little about Focusrite, such as the Scarlett Solo.
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ScarlettSolo  Check out the video.
 
Good luck!
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 2:19 PM Post #7 of 24
Thanks Fishyee, your input came at a very good time. Mr. DonaldRumsfeld's advice helped me in adjusting my goals. For my needs (desktop computer listening) I don't need a sub. When I adjusted that thinking, I did start looking harder at my sound chain. As I see it, it is flac files on computer, to an interface or DAC, to powered speakers. I then started to look more critically at this since I have taken a sub out of my equation.
 
Ironically, I am starting to consider both the JBL LSR305s and the Presonus Eris E5 as the Presonus kept coming up in by review of budget monitors. The local Guitar Center has both and I intend to try to hear them this weekend. So then I started to think about a dac. I have little experience with them. Given that I was thinking of the Schiit Modi, as it is currently $79. I was thinking I needed to go thru a learning curve and for $79 I could do some learning. As I understand it, I could go from the computer to Modi to powered speakers. I looked at the 2 dacs you recommended, great reviews on them however, I really need to study the specs as this is still new to me.
 
Do you think the Modi would give me a good start?
 
If you would also indulge my ignorance here, isn't XLR a connection for mixers and microphones? I realize I need to do research on this, as XLR connects started coming up as I researched powered studio monitors. So it is good to know a XLR to RCA adapter would take care of that. Although, it does sound simpler for me to go with the Presonus.
 
Thanks again.
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 4:00 PM Post #8 of 24
I can help you through your thought process, but could you share a few things to ensure we are providing good advice?
 
1.  What kind of music do you enjoy? 
2.  What sound signature do you like?  For example, I like punchy bass, detailed yet musical mids, smooth treble.  Audeze headphones capture this signature for me perfectly if you are familiar with them.
3.  Do you plan to own hi rez music files in the future?
 
 
Guitar Center is a great place.  Bring some music with you on a USB drive and the guys should be able to let you hear your music through the speakers.  For reference purposes, ask them to hook up a pair of Neumann KH120A or Focal CMS50 also.  Why?  They give you a glimpse of next level up of clarity and price.  You will be surprised how close the 305s and E5 get to them. 
 
 
DACs are harder to recommend.  I suggested those DACs for not only their sound but also their portability if you ever decide to take your laptop, DAC, and headphones on vacation with you.  Sorry, I have not heard the Schiit Modi.  You may not hear a difference between the Modi and Behringer.  From a specs standpoint, the Modi doesn't do USB asynchronous and tops out at 96 Hz.  This gets back to my 3rd question.  The Modi 2 does do asynch and 192 Hz for $20 more.  Luckily, you have a lot of DAC options around $100-200. 
 
Read this about DACs.
- http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC.htm
- http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Async.htm
- http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Adaptive.htm
 
XLR is the standard in the pro market and RCA for the consumer home market.  XLR is theoretically better but it is very system dependent and interference dependent.  With interconnect cables, you look for interference rejection and low capacitance.  Fancy cables are not needed.
 
Read this.
- http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm
- http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm
- http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/LC1-design-notes.htm
 
"These two attributes, shielding and capacitance, are the most important factors in unbalanced audio cable quality. Shielding is important, of course, because it keeps out externally-induced noise, and because unbalanced audio, unlike balanced audio, can't take advantage of common-mode noise rejection. Capacitance contributes to high-frequency rolloff, so the lower the capacitance of the cable, the flatter the frequency response in any given application (how flat will depend on the device impedances as well as the capacitance, so it's not possible to generate a one-size-fits-all frequency response chart; but in every case, the lower the capacitance, the flatter that curve will be). Capacitance, like many cable attributes, is a per-foot characteristic; while high capacitance won't ordinarily make a significant difference in short runs, it becomes an increasing problem with longer runs."
 
Looking forward to continuing the discussion!
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 4:17 PM Post #10 of 24
Great article on cables.  Thank you for sharing, Mr. Roseval.  Also, do you contribute to Welltemperedcomputer?
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 4:32 PM Post #12 of 24
A heartfelt thank you for developing your website!  I have learned a lot from it and I recommend it religiously. 
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 5:17 PM Post #13 of 24
Thanks Fishyee,
I appreciate your assistance and the recommended articles.
  • Contemporary Jazz and Classical music. Classical more on the Chamber and Spanish Guitar side, very little orchestra. I am particularly enjoying when the Jazz musicians do classical, like Chris Botti and Marsalis Brothers.
  • I do like the punchy bass but only enough so I can tell both the percussion and the bass is setting the beat. Do not like overpowering bass. Some of the more contemporary Jazz musicians have a good punchy bass and I like to hear that. Per the reviews both the JBL and Presonus seem to have that punchy bass.
  • I don’t know yet, as I understand it today, I am going to say no. I have converted all my cd’s into flac and continue to buy cd’s. I have been researching hi-res music and how to acquire. I thought I would try to upgrade my computer audio listening first.

 I need to increase my knowledge on this subject. I have always been interested in music listening, but more into stereo listening at home and then home theatre.  About 2 years ago I joined this forum to research headphones. I had some old Grados and Sennheisers, I prefer monitor type speakers so I did the same kind of research on headphones. That led me to the Sennheiser HD380 Pro, later I acquired the Beyerdynamic DTX 501p. I did hear the Sennheisers at Guitar Center, but the Beyerdynamic purchase was based only on reviews. Initially I was only listening through my tablet computers and a Sony Walkman. I enjoyed both headphones so much I then purchased a headphone amp (Fiio e11), and then later the Fiio X1 DAP. I am now spending so much time in my home office that I wanted to improve that listening.
Being semi-retired I will need to go on the budget side. I purchased the UCA-222 because of the USB input  from the computer and it had a DAC. I could hear the improvement. I need to understand the music chain between the computer and the active speakers.  Another ignorant question, since the speakers will be powered, I will not need a amp, just a DAC correct?
Thanks Again
 
Feb 4, 2015 at 5:19 PM Post #15 of 24
Given that I was thinking of..............................     ..

 
Whoa. Slow down.
 
You know what I mean. We have all been here before.
 
Agonise  for weeks over a new purchase. Endlessly compare specs and opinions. Will an extra $50 make that much difference? Then, when you do finally make your mind and decide and are sure you made the right choice you end up getting flooded with a serotonin rush. The wallet flops open and you make a rash decision to buy something in addition. For above your original, tightly controlled then remember, budget. In the mistaken believe it will just as good all over again.
 
It won't. It isn't. The speakers will make the big, big did I say big, difference. Get them and refuse to part with any more money until you get past that 'it's even better than I expected phase.
 
You know it makes sense.
 
Although you will probably want a physical volume .................& ..............a...   oh no. It's happening again.  :)
 

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