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Well you will be the one to ask about all this, when you get yours.
Advice: admire the looks but let them cook without listening to them beforehand. Let them play that day and then overnight and then listen to them when you get back that afternoon. Tomcat recommends the group 'Air Supply' for playing in a headphone.

p.s. Kelly; you read Tomcats review of the W100, no? Well he just got finished telling you how he went from initial feelings of 'underwhelmed' to praising heaven after playing them in for a month. Ok, so 'underwhelmed' is different than 'hate' but I'm sure you get my point and the analogy. Anything is possible.

p.s.s. how much will you sell yours for??

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Air Supply, eh? I was thinking about playing Britney Spears in them so that I could qualitatively say they sucked regardless.

I imagine I will wait until just after Vincent stops telling people they're getting the last pair, then tell everyone that I got "the last pair straight from Audio-Technica!" Please continue praising them until this time has passed for me so that I may recoup my full expenses for these rare and exclusive masterpieces.

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no, that's what the r10s are for, with their oversized pads and sheepskin covers... don't they come with little jars of lube, too?

M Rael, I was a little shocked to log in this morning and see that you had started making personal insults simply because I did not much like the W2002s. I certainly wasn't blaming you for this (believe me, I'm a grown up and can take responsibility for my own decisions), and I have nothing but respect for your views.

Let me set out my position a little more clearly so you can see where I am coming from. I have maybe 7 or 8 pairs of headphones, and 5 headphone amps (not including those I've owned and sold over the years). I have two hi fi systems, three pairs of speakers, and another on the way. I have spent a lot of time and money over the years buying (and often selling) hi fi equipment. I do not say this to suggest that I have superior hearing, only that I have a very good idea of what I like and what I do not like, and I am very fussy about what I like.

The process of break-in is certainly a real one, especially for headphones and other transducers. However, in my experience, break-in does not change the fundamental character of the headphone: it smooths off the rough edges, deepends the bass, heightens the highs, fleshes out the sound - but the basic character of the sound rarely changes much.

I posted two things about the W2002. First, that they sounded aggressive, edgy, shrill etc straight out of the box. They did, and I expected this to wear off with run in, and even after a couple of hours they had started to improve in this respect. If this was the only criticism I probably would have kept the headphones, or at least wait until the end of the break in period.

However, I had a second criticism: the wooden earpieces were clearly audible to me as a slightly muddy colouration. This was slight, but noticeable, and I do not believe that this characteristic is capable of being ameliorated by run-in. Now, as I said, I know what I like and what I don't like, and I am fussy about what I like. I don't like woody colourations in headphones, and I knew that for this reason I would not like these headphones. It was therefore better to sell them quickly while they were still new, and someone else could take benefit from my unfortunate purchase.

Yes, I do have extreme likes and dislikes, and I am not afraid to express my opinion. I regard that as my obligation as a member here. I don't say that everyone has to agree with me, just that they respect that my opinion is genuine and expressed honestly (just as I respect your opinions, and their sincerity).

I honestly hope you and the other W2002 owners (especially the person purchasing mine) enjoy their headphones. But please do not resort to the level of making personal insults just because there is a difference of opinion.

Ross

Ross,
I'm not sure what you mean by a "wooden coloration". Do the HD600 have a "carbon-fiber" coloration, and if so, how would one recognize that?

The w2002 was not as "clear" as the Sony R10 (and CD3K) upon first hooking it up. It was less able to separate sounds, and layer tracks on top of one another successfully, but I don't think this is related to the wooden enclosure. I think this is simply an aspect of this headphone's basic sound. Maybe that is what you are reacting to when you call them "muddy".

And yes, that problem has been alleviated quite a bit with burn-in, but its still not in the R10's league there.

I agree that the effects of burn-in do not fundamentally alter the basic sound of a headphone, and that gains are mostly on the margin. That's why I felt I was able to declare the W2002 inferior to the R10 after 35 hours of burn-in. I understand where you're coming from. I also felt it was important to publish results ASAP given the buying frenzy.

markl

Thanks for posting again Ross. I understand you a lot better after that. The fact that you spent all the money on the W2002 and then sold it, basically the same day, may seem bizarre to me- but it certainly shows how strongly you feel about your tastes. I didnt exactly love the W2002 at first either, but I wouldnt in a million years think to dump it the same day I got it. If I attacked your way of doing things.. well I suppose I could equally applaud your strong audio principles, even though they still seem alien to me.

You say you dont like woody colorations in headphones, and yet you bought a wood headphone? I read that all enclosed headphones color the sound to some small degree along the lines of their enclosure material. Wear the CD3000's with no music and listen to room sounds.. do the same with other plastic enclosured headphones.. apparently this approximates the nature of the enclosures coloration while playing music.

I respect you for your principles of knowing what you like, and if you say you could tell instantly that you werent going to like the W2002 no matter how long it played in, well then who am I to doubt you. That you sold them as cheap as you did? Well it didnt take long for them to sell, thats for sure. It might seem like I'm miserable unless the universe bows down to the W2002, but thats really not the case. Its really not. Part of me likes it when others like the W2002 to, but thats as natural as 'Team Grado' or 'Team EQ' is natural (or as 'Team Tinnitus' is unpopular). I didnt like it when markl said he had proof that the W2002 enclosure is really made of plastic, but thats another story.

I think I would like to read some reviews you have done of headphones, Ross. I'm not being sarcastic! I'm saying it would be really interesting for me to read what you think about various cans. Right now theres a bit of the 'Howard Hughes- the latter years' vibe about all this selling of a $700 headphone the same day you got it business (I was trying to be funny in that last sentence. It wasnt an insult or a put down.)

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markl, a "colouration" is something that is produced by the headphone and affects all frequencies equally. If all instruments and all types of music are represented with the same timbral characteristics - i.e. voices, violins, guitars, saxophones etc all have the same tonal colour - you can assume that there is a colouration at work. In this case, there was a slightly dark quality which I can only describe as "muddy", which I had last heard with the Grado RS1s (in fact, from the first moment I put the W2002 on they reminded me instantly and involuntarily of the RS1s). Maybe it is just the sound of the headphone and nothing to do with the wooden earpieces, and perhaps the RS1 comparison was just a coincidence - but it was certainly there (and, to be honest, I am fairly certain intuitively that it derives from the wooden enclosures).

I suspect there is a carbon-fibre colouration, as well as a plastic colouration, but I think that these must be a lot less obvious - I'm not an audio engineer or a materials scientist, so this just represents my uneducated guess, and I am happy to concede that I could be wrong. In the case of the Sennheiser 580s or 600s, for example, each instrument clearly has a different "colour", so while there may be headphone-induced colourations, these are not so great as to outweigh the natural tonal colours of the recording.

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Fair point, M Rael. I considered this issue, but was willing to take the risk that Audio-Technica succeeded where (in my view) Grado failed. I took that risk and lost.

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I took a small loss on the headphones. I paid less than $800 for them, but I am not prepared to disclose more than this.

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One day, if I have time, I might post a detailed review of all of the headphones I use. However, there doesn't appear to be an urgent need for this, since Head.Fi is not exactly short of reviews of Sennheiser 600s, Beyers and Grados.

Suffice it to say that, although I flirt with other headphones, I always come back to the Sennheiser 580/600, usually with a feeling of great relief.

Ross

Ross,
I am familiar with the basic notion of "coloration", I just don't hear a "wooden" one with either the R10 or W2002 (both woodies). To me all Grados are colored because of their signature sound, not just the wooden RS1. BTW; the AT doesn't sound much like a Grado to me, either.

If a wooden coloration was a problem, how could you find a regular speaker you like? Aren't all speakers "wooden" colored?

I'm not trying to be a smart-alek, and I agree that they the ATs have a signature sound, but I think its related more to the driver than the housing.

MRael:
"I didnt like it when markl said he had proof that the W2002 enclosure is really made of plastic"

Huh? Never said that. They're quite obviously made of wood, my comment was directed at the thick varnish, which I wish I'd never said, but felt like plastic to me.

markl

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I edited my post and added a

I meant it as a joke, to lighten the tensions of this W2002 extraveganza. Remember your fake news story, "indeed, the W2002 enclosures are made of plastic" etc.etc. It was just a joke markl, sorry for the confusion.

p.s. I also told Kelly that Tomcat recommends the group Air Supply for use in playing in his headphones.

I didn't want to say anything until the deal was done with the funds transferred and so forth, but I'm the lucky one who bought Ross's W2002s. I don't mean lucky so much because of the price, although I thought it more than reasonable, but because apparently they really are gone. It was beginning to look like I missed out on getting one due to an error on my part.

A word about the price. I take the same approach to selling things as Ross does. I usually set what I call a "no haggle" price. By this, I mean a price so low that people will clamor to buy the item, not try to wheedle the price down. I hate that kind of thing.

At any rate, I may be the first person on earth to buy a used W2002. I only hope we all find them so good that I'm the last.

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I knew you were going to say this. You are right, and there are a large number of speakers that are very coloured, for exactly this reason, and I would not be happy owning these. Speaker manufacturers use wood because it is cheap and easy to work with (although a few use other materials). However, a well-designed speaker can minimise these effects with damping materials and bracing, although there is obviously a limit to how far this can go. (And I don't claim to be an expert on speaker design either, by the way.) This is why I prefer small monitors with a lot of internal bracing (such as the Proac Tab 50 Signatures which are my favourite speakers), since these (generally) have much lower colourations than larger speakers. I should add that I have been through a lot of different speakers trying to find some that I like, and the colouration issue is definitely a big factor.

Spad, you can look forward to an email later today with the tracking number for the courier package.

Ross

"This is why I prefer small monitors with a lot of internal bracing (such as the Proac Tab 50 Signatures which are my favourite speakers), since these (generally) have much lower colourations than larger speakers."

Hee hee. Then I guess you wouldn't appreciate my PSB Stratus Goldi's! That's OK. I don't need no stinkin subwoofer-- I actually sold a 15" Velodyne because it just wasn't necessary with the Goldi's. The PSBs are sort of like the giant slab in 2001. You sit cross-legged on the floor, look up and just sort of gasp in awe!

Of course, they have absolutely zero spouse acceptance factor, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there!

markl

I guess I'm less sensitive to coloration.

I have NHT VT-2s which are probably about the size of markl's speakers. They don't image as well as I'd like for music because they were designed for home theater (and even when switched into music "mode" they simply don't excel at imaging).

What I love about the speakers is that they are so good with bass that I don't need a subwoofer and get a "natural" smoothness between the mids and lows. Most people don't notice or complain about that mismatch in home theater application, but when watching movies, the absolute most important thing to me is that the sound matches. With VS-2s in the back and center, I get flawless panning effects smooth movements across the frequency range.

In my humble outdated opinion, paper cones produce better vocals than the new materials do, also. NHT has made newer versions of there speakers with different materials in the tweeters. They produce sweeter highs but they sacrifice the natural sounding clear and present vocals. Maybe this too is a coloration, but it's a quality I'm very pleased with.

For the money, these speakers are incredible. On the grand scheme of things, I have a dozen complaints with them--and coloration was never one of them.

Perhaps those of us who dwell in apartments prefer the coloring of our speakers to the coloring of our sheetrock. Perhaps too, I'll prefer the W2002 to the alternatives. I know this will get me lashings in these parts, but despite their "lack of coloring", the HD600 sounds completely unnatural to me.