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High End DAC Recommendations
Oct 20, 2015 at 8:42 AM Post #17 of 118
imp96 said:
  I am looking for a high end DAC. I am currently looking at Bricasti M1 or one of the Total DACs. Has anyone heard either one of them or preferably both of them? From what I seen on forums there is huge variance in opinions between all the high end DACs so I am not sure what to believe. These two DACs appear to be the most liked options.  Any one have any other suggestions.
 
EDIT: I think I am gonna go with either the M1 or D1 Dual, can any one weigh in on this choice
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Hi imp96,
 
I've owned both the TotalDAC D1-Dual and the Bricasti M1 and the same time.  I also owned the Yggdrasil at the same time as the TotalDAC.  Out of all three I liked the TotalDAC the best. The M1 and Yggdrasil was close but I like the M1 by a short margin.  Now the Yggdrasil is the best at price per performance, but it's not the best DAC if you have a budget that can take you further up the high end ladder.  
 
The two tubes DACS I've owned are the AMR DP-777 and the Aqua La Scala MK2.  I haven't heard the ARM DP-777SE yet.  Some are saying it's better than the original DP-777.  I also heard a Lampizator L4 G4 and a Audio Note Kit 4.1 built by DigitalPete.  Out of these tube DACs I like them in this order:
 
La Scala MK2
AMR DP-777
ANK 4.1 by DigitalPete
Lampizator L4 G4
 
 
I now own a EMM LABS DAC2X.  Quite frankly "at this point in time" it's the best DAC I've ever heard or owned - with a special shout out the the Audio Note DAC 5 Signature.  
 
I don't have any experience with the MSB DACS, The Gryphon Kalliope or the Light Harmonics Da Vinci DAC MKII.  Those are some really high end DACs..
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 10:10 AM Post #18 of 118
Interesting on the DAC 4.1. That DAC scales incredibly with better quality parts and a swop up to the 496 I/Vs transformers (which are in the DAC 5 Special). The jump is outstanding. It goes to show IMO how good R-2R can get.
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 5:47 PM Post #20 of 118
I auditioned the CH Precision C1 R-2R DAC today which was used with my 009/BHSE, and my MacMini as music server, I also compared that DAC to my K-01 SACD/DAC which was also used with that stats combo, but with CD's.
Before I say anything about that comparison though, for sometime I've believed the source to be the most important piece in an audio system, and this audition has added to that belief.
 
Now with the K-01 being an SACD/DAC, the advantage goes to the K-01 over the C1 with it being able to play CD's as well as using a music server with it's DAC, however I found that's where the advantage ends.
 
Using the K-01 with my 009/BHSE, there's always been plenty of detail and transparency, but even though using the Mullard xf4 tubes with the BHSE have made the 009's a lot more comfortable listening to, there was/is still a slight edginess to the SQ.
I never thought that edginess could've been caused by the K-01, but the C1 has proven me wrong,
 
The C1, WOW ! WOW ! WOW ! and WOW !, no edginess at all from the 009/BHSE, with an even wider soundstage over using the K-01, but still with a lot of detail and transparency, and I once thought the K-01 made the 009/BHSE sound lifelike, but the C1 again has proven me wrong, what a DAC.
The realism from using the C1 with the 009/BHSE has to be heard to be believed, I've never heard the 009's sound so good, in fact it wouldn't bother me if I never heard another headphone system ever, I could go on but I'm starting to get an ????????.
 
The downside is it'll take me at least three years to save for the C1, so I'll have to wait until then, but let the saving begin.
 
I suppose I've lived with the K-01 for 4 years, so I guess I can live with it for another 3.
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 6:03 PM Post #21 of 118
david1961 said:
  I auditioned the CH Precision C1 R-2R DAC today which was used with my 009/BHSE, and my MacMini as music server, I also compared that DAC to my K-01 SACD/DAC which was also used with that stats combo, but with CD's.
Before I say anything about that comparison though, for sometime I've believed the source to be the most important piece in an audio system, and this audition has added to that belief.
 
Now with the K-01 being an SACD/DAC, the advantage goes to the K-01 over the C1 with it being able to play CD's as well as using a music server with it's DAC, however I found that's where the advantage ends.
 
Using the K-01 with my 009/BHSE, there's always been plenty of detail and transparency, but even though using the Mullard xf4 tubes with the BHSE have made the 009's a lot more comfortable listening to, there was/is still a slight edginess to the SQ.
I never thought that edginess could've been caused by the K-01, but the C1 has proven me wrong,
 
The C1, WOW ! WOW ! WOW ! and WOW !, no edginess at all from the 009/BHSE, with an even wider soundstage over using the K-01, but still with a lot of detail and transparency, and I once thought the K-01 made the 009/BHSE sound lifelike, but the C1 again has proven me wrong, what a DAC.
The realism from using the C1 with the 009/BHSE has to be heard to be believed, I've never heard the 009's sound so good, in fact it wouldn't bother me if I never heard another headphone system ever, I could go on but I'm starting to get an ????????.
 
The downside is it'll take me at least three years to save for the C1, so I'll have to wait until then, but let the saving begin.
 
I suppose I've lived with the K-01 for 4 years, so I guess I can live with it for another 3.
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Hi David
I am glad you are happy with your R-2R audition. I concur with what you have found, and need to not say more here about that, as I have banged on about DS v R-2R so much folk here are getting super mad with me...
 
The way R-2R gets the information off the server or CD is why it sounds better, assuming we say the power supply and line stage are the same in both machines. There is no oversampling, no up sampling, no filtering (in my DAC) and no computer processing that 'guesses' the output to analogue, Basically the chip is converting it bit-perfect to voltage i.e. line output.
 
It is a shame that C1 is so expensive, but I think there are others, i.e. TotalDAC, MSB, Audio Note, Wavelength, Lampizator.
I went the DIY / cheaper route and built my Audio Note DAC 4.1 in kit form. However it allowes me to tinker and upgrade parts which I like doing.
 
David, you take any photos? Or was your hand too shaky? Seriously, this shows how damb good the BHSE and 009s are.
 
Oct 23, 2015 at 8:55 PM Post #22 of 118
I agree with astrostar59, you may find adequate source for much less than the C1. I am not speaking of its SQ as I haven't heard one but rather on the Esoteric voicing vs. other products.

I was very impressed by the detail retrieval and soundstage of the X1 the few times I heard (speaker system though, soundstage always impressive compared to headphones ...). But the esoteric gear does not really have the reputation to be smooth / liquid sounding. I personnally would be warry of the pairing with BHSE/009 as there's pretty much nothing more revealing of upstream gear out there...

I haven't compared myself but was told the TotalDAC is for instance quite a bit more fluid / natural sounding than the esoteric. I suspect other dacs (not necessarily R2R, prepoman's posts are enlightening on the subject, see bricasti m1 ) like Audio Note, Iggy, etc would sound smoother than the X1.

You might thus find you need not save money for 3 years to improve your current source David. I'd start with trying an Iggy as it's a no brainer at the cost.

In any case you have 3 years to try other dacs, i can't imagine you won't find something great and cost effective before then.

Arnaud
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 4:15 AM Post #23 of 118
Hi Julian,

Because I was so excited while writing that last post, I forgot to add photos.
I only took two but here they are.






@ arnaud & astrostar59,

As you both will probably know, from audio equipment I'm seeking build quality & looks almost as much as SQ, and I found the CH-P C1 is built as good if not better than the K-01, I also think it looks very nice.
So, while there are less expensive R-2R DAC's available that might sound as good, I'm not interested in them simply because I can't see them being built to the same quality as the C1, and two of those mentioned by astrostar59 ( TolalDAC & MSB ) I don't like the look of.
I do like the look of Audio-Note DAC's, but because they use tubes, I don't want a DAC with those, however I'd still like to audition an Audio-Note DAC5S with the 009/BHSE along with you Julian.

Another R-2R DAC I like the look of the Trinity, and it's built quality will probably be top-notch as well, but it's too expensive for me.




Luke the guy that brought the C1 also got to hear my 009/BHSE with both K-01 and C1, and thought SQ from using the K-01 sounded artificial, and after hearing the C1 I agree with him.
That doesn't mean the K-01 sounds bad, because it doesn't, just not as good ( IMO ) as the C1.
I'll carry on enjoying the K-01 until I've saved for the C1, but to those that don't believe DAC's can/will improve the SQ of their headphone system, audition the C1 with it and post your thoughts.
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 8:37 AM Post #25 of 118
USB was used with the C1 and MacMini, but Luke said Ethernet is the best to use because it offers a purer signal, Luke also mentioned something else as to why Ethernet is the best to use, but I can't remember what that was, with that said I still was/am immensely happy with what I heard from using USB.
Another thing I like about the C1, is apparently if there are any future improvements, then today's C1's can be upgraded.

I've found the BHSE sounds better after it's been on power for an hour, and the C1 seemed to improve as it warmed up, but even from cold it still made the 009/BHSE sound extremely good.

P.S. I'm NOT getting any discount or anything else for writing what I have about the C1, I'm just giving my honest opinion.
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 10:16 AM Post #27 of 118
golfnutz said:
Wouldn't a used Trinity DAC be in the same price range as the C1 you auditioned?
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Probably, but if I had to choose between new and used, I'd always go for new, and while I do like the look of the Trinity DAC, I prefer the C1.
Having said that I'd still like to audition the Trinity with my 009/BHSE just to hear if it sounds better than the C1 which I've read it does.
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 10:21 AM Post #28 of 118
@David1961
Did you warm up your K-01 also, i mean for more than 10 hours or switch it of every time after use?
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 10:41 AM Post #29 of 118
I only switch the K-01 on when I plan to use it, and that day of audition both the K-01 and C1 were switched on at the same time, however the BHSE had been on power for around two hours before I started the listening.
 
Oct 24, 2015 at 10:47 AM Post #30 of 118
Ok, then keep it on for 24 hours and tell me what happened then!
biggrin.gif

 
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