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REVIEW: Ultimate Ears UE-10 Pro & Sensaphonics ProPhonic 2X-Soft - Page 4

post #46 of 271
Lindrone:

You recently wrote,

Quote:
Well, you have to take in account of how individual feel about sibilance. The UE-10 is more sibilant than the 2X-S, but it is on the same level as ER-4. However, I know a few Head-Fi member that has found even ER-4 too sibilant for their taste. I think it's just fine, but I like the sibilance control on the 2X-S more. So for those people who find the ER-4, CD3000, or Grados too sibilant for their taste, UE-10 will probably be as well.

The sibilance is not from the iPod, as it is apparent on my home system as well. It's just a subjective view of how much sibilance is too much
When I re-read your review, I noticed that you classified the level of sibiliance of the Ue-10 PRO in the same category with both the Etymotic Research ER-4P/S and Grado RS-1. I feel the need to clarify my points. First, the Grado RS-1 is both a bright and sibiliant pair of cans especially with a bright source such as the NAD C541i HDCD/CD player. To a certain extent, I feel that the top end of these particular cans is unnaturally tipped up. The ER-4P/S is bright and sibiliant but not so much as the RS-1s. The Ue-10 PRO is not bright nor is it sibiliant especially in my reference system. I think it is an extremely accurate custom IEM and I feel that categorizing it as having the same amount of brightness or sibiliance as both the ER-4P/S and RS-1 is a bit of an overstatement; while I find your review to be interesting, I feel it is necessary to state that your opinion is simply too contrary to my experiences. I do not feel the Ue-10 PRO is sibiliant in any configuration I have tried thus far. Do you think that the Sensaphonics ProPhonic 2X-Soft to have a more rolled-off treble region as compared to the Ue-10 PRO? Do you think your source components are leaning on the bright side? Are your music selections adding to the brightness you observed with the Ue-10 PRO? I gather that the Ue-10 PRO's extra articulation and definition in the treble region may contribute to your opinion that it is sibiliant. Please provide clarification on this issue.
post #47 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrone
Probably not, because I noted that UE-10 Pro has the same amount of detail as the 2X-S. Unless UE-10 Pro only has the same amount of detail as UE5c, then 2X-S would not be in the same class as UE5c. Given utdeep's experience with UE5c, I say they're closer to the class of E5c rather than UE-10 Pro and 2X-S. Both UE-10 Pro and 2X-S has much more high-level detail.
Jerry states that the high frequency driver he uses is the same for the UE-5C and UE-10 Pro. However, the low drivers are different in the UE-5C and UE-10 Pro. If you are hearing the same detail out of the 2x-S and UE-10 Pro, it is likely that the UE-5C will provide the same detail. However, because of the bass predominance on the UE-5C, it may seem that it does not provide the same amount of detail. I am assuming that he is tuning the high drivers the same way for both the 5C and 10 Pro.

Quote:
Also, 2X-S produces more low-bass, it does *not* produce more mid-bass than the UE-10 Pro. The low-bass has more vibration and "rumble" in the sound, like I said, woofer-like. However, the mid-bass is much more punchy and less resonant. UE-10 Pro's midbass still terminates faster, but 2X-S isn't far behind.
The low frequency is separated in three different regions deep, mid and upper bass. If I understand correctly, only the deep bass is accentuated in the 2X. This makes the 2X sound boomiER than the 10 Pro. I am not saying that the 2X is boomy.
post #48 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welly Wu
I do not feel the Ue-10 PRO is sibiliant in any configuration I have tried thus far. Do you think that the Sensaphonics ProPhonic 2X-Soft to have a more rolled-off treble region as compared to the Ue-10 PRO? I gather that the Ue-10 PRO's extra articulation and definition in the treble region may contribute to your opinion that it is sibiliant. Please provide clarification on this issue.
Like I said, sibilance is subjective, perhaps categorizing them directly with ER-4 is a bit harsh. They're not as harsh as the ER-4, but they're not the type of sibilance control that the 2X-S exhibits either. They're a tad better than ER-4, but for some cases, those who are sibilance sensitive, it still won't be enough.

2X-S's treble region is not "rolled-off" compared to the UE-10, but it is different. All the same notes are there, but the sharpness on top of the notes aren't. There's also more decay following the treble notes as well, so the cymbal and chimes vibrate more. The volume in the treble notes are pretty much the same as the UE-10 though.
post #49 of 271
How much does the ProPhonic 2X-S cost? I couldn't find a price on the Sensaphonics site.

Great review, Lindrone.

Welly Wu, you're just once again showing you're a UE fanboy (fangirl? honestly don't know which). You're being overly defensive for no reason whatsoever. Lindrone didn't exactly slam the UE's; in fact, to the contrary, I think he shed them in a more positive light than anyone was expecting. To be brutally honest (as per usual), I think you're shooting your credibility in the foot by being so overly protective of a product that's not under fire. (Minor psychology side-point: You'd be a lot happier if you didn't feel the need to discredit other products to justify your own purchase. You made the right choice for you. The fact that the Sensa 2X-S is another good product shouldn't cause you to become all paranoid and fearful. [This is typically a male reaction {ages 17-29}, which is why I guessed fanboy first])

As for me? I was completely impartial going into this. I hadn't thought one way or another about either of these products (I didn't even really know what the Sensas were/looked like). I'm inclined to get the 2X-S now, though.

In my opinion, the UE's look like hearing aids. The Sensas look much more discreet. While I'm sure the replaceable cable on the UE's is a feature to some, I'd rather have the built in cable - one less thing to worry about.
post #50 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotslashconfig
Welly Wu, you're just once again showing you're a UE fanboy (fangirl? honestly don't know which). You're being overly defensive for no reason whatsoever. Lindrone didn't exactly slam the UE's; in fact, to the contrary, I think he shed them in a more positive light than anyone was expecting. To be brutally honest (as per usual), I think you're shooting your credibility in the foot by being so overly protective of a product that's not under fire. (Minor psychology side-point: You'd be a lot happier if you didn't feel the need to discredit other products to justify your own purchase. You made the right choice for you. The fact that the Sensa 2X-S is another good product shouldn't cause you to become all paranoid and fearful. [This is typically a male reaction {ages 17-29}, which is why I guessed fanboy first])
some, I'd rather have the built in cable - one less thing to worry about.
The truth is that I have a different opinion about this issue of sibilance and the ER4, which is not shared by Welly or Lind. Differing opinions does not mean that Welly is a UE fanboy in the manner that you have described him.

My opnion about the ER4's is as follows: no sibilance, but harsh because of the high frequency equalization and less-than-usual low end presence. The highs are well controlled and shows the detail of the music. Often times sibilance is heard because of the source or recording is adding that sibilance. A sibilant and harsh headphone no matter what material or source is the EX71.
post #51 of 271
Thanks for the review--outstanding work!!

And with regard to the burn in, as several people have mentioned, it can always be added at a later date (and how much difference it makes is an age old argument that pits north against south, brothers against brothers). People give first impressions all the time, and update them later if need be. IMHO, considering all the bantering that's been going on, I appreciate more than anything else how quickly Lindrone got the review out, but without sacrificing any quality--did anyone really want to wait another week for it?

It leaves me with a couple quandries, and a problem I have with the Ety's--when I turn them up (mainly to get a touch more bass), they get a tad too bright--is this as much of a problem with the UE-10's as with the Ety's? I'm concerned that the UE10's may be just a bit too analytical for everyday listening, and as much as I love the Ety's, I don't want to go too bright again. I want the detail, more oomph to the bass, but no shrillness, otherwise I'm no better off than what I've already have (and I love the Ety's, but you know how it is, I'm just trying to find something out there I might love a little more).

On the other hand, with regard to the sensaphonics, is the clarity as good as or better than the Ety's? One problem I have always had with the Shure's is that they sound muddy to me (which is the main reason I prefer Ety's)--I'm concerned that what you're describing in "warmth" with the sensa's is going to tranlate to muddiness to my unrefined ears.

And I hate to say this, but after your review, what I REALLY want to see is a direct comparison between the sensas and the UE5C's. I'm wondering if the UE5C's, being more specifically tuned for consumers, may, in addition to having a bit more prominent bass (which admittedly may be a problem for me), have a slightly softer high end (I read where the high frequency drivers are the same on the UE5C's and UE10's; it would be interesting to know if they are tuned differently, and to what degree/effect)...

Since the sensas and UE10's sound so great directly out of the source, maybe you can sell one of you amps and get the UE5's (Just kidding, I suppose the madness must stop somewhere).

Again, thanks for an excellent and timely review!
post #52 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT
The truth is that I have a different opinion about this issue of sibilance and the ER4, which is not shared by Welly or Lind. Differing opinions does not mean that Welly is a UE fanboy in the manner that you have described him.

My opnion about the ER4's is as follows: no sibilance, but harsh because of the high frequency equalization and less-than-usual low end presence. The highs are well controlled and shows the detail of the music. Often times sibilance is heard because of the source or recording is adding that sibilance. A sibilant and harsh headphone no matter what material or source is the EX71.
That's totally legit. Perhaps I referenced the term 'fanboy' in too broad a context. I used the term in this case because I felt Welly Wu wasn't giving Lindrone and his review a fair chance. I thought he wasn't really even listening to the review's comparisons, so much as he was trying to directly subjugate the other product out of insecurity.
post #53 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotslashconfig
That's totally legit. Perhaps I referenced the term 'fanboy' in too broad a context. I used the term in this case because I felt Welly Wu wasn't giving Lindrone and his review a fair chance. I thought he wasn't really even listening to the review's comparisons, so much as he was trying to directly subjugate the other product out of insecurity.
Dotslahconfig:

Please refrain from making personal attacks in this thread. We simply do not need negative input from anyone in yet another thread started by Lindrone. If you don't have anything positive to say about someone, then keep your comments to yourself.
post #54 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotslashconfig
How much does the ProPhonic 2X-S cost? I couldn't find a price on the Sensaphonics site.
The ProPhonic 2X-S is $750 without the audiologist fee, so you should be expecting $800. I don't know if custom color or anything like that is extra... when I got mine, custom colors weren't an option yet. Call them up and ask them is the best way. As penbat experienced, they don't know how to deal with emails.. lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by purk
Nice and informative review. How much for each cananl phone?
The UE-10 Pro is $900 to start with, but another $50 for the full-soft option. So if you want the full-soft option, you should be expecting to pay about $1000. UE makes you pay for the shipping as well. I didn't have to pay for any shipping for my Sensaphonics, my audiologist did it as a part of her service. So that may vary from audiologist to audiologists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kunwar
Lindrone could you specify in a bit more detaill what options did you use when placing your order for each product as in what design did you chose.
Almost missed this question earlier...

ProPhonic 2X-S: Only option I picked was the teflon integrated/braided cable. Otherwise there really isn't many options with the 2X-S, it's pretty straight forward. The silicone material has a natural pink/fleshy color to it, so when you get "clear", that's what you get. I haven't seen what any colored earpieces look like.

UE-10 Pro: Clear earpiece with clear cable. Full-soft option. The clear earpiece of the UE-10 Pro is indeed clear, but the circuits inside and the drivers makes it take on sort of a green tint when you photograph them.
post #55 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welly Wu
Dotslahconfig:

Please refrain from making personal attacks in this thread. We simply do not need negative input from anyone in yet another thread started by Lindrone. If you don't have anything positive to say about someone, then keep your comments to yourself.

Point to the personal attack, please.
post #56 of 271
Chill people
post #57 of 271
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt1
It leaves me with a couple quandries, and a problem I have with the Ety's--when I turn them up (mainly to get a touch more bass), they get a tad too bright--is this as much of a problem with the UE-10's as with the Ety's? I'm concerned that the UE10's may be just a bit too analytical for everyday listening, and as much as I love the Ety's, I don't want to go too bright again. I want the detail, more oomph to the bass, but no shrillness, otherwise I'm no better off than what I've already have (and I love the Ety's, but you know how it is, I'm just trying to find something out there I might love a little more).
I don't consider UE-10 as bright as the Ety. They have a fuller sound than the Ety's, even though they are still more analytical than the 2X-S. I find them very good in terms of musicality, although not as much as 2X-S.


Quote:
On the other hand, with regard to the sensaphonics, is the clarity as good as or better than the Ety's? One problem I have always had with the Shure's is that they sound muddy to me (which is the main reason I prefer Ety's)--I'm concerned that what you're describing in "warmth" with the sensa's is going to tranlate to muddiness to my unrefined ears.
Like I said in the review, 2X-S is capable of producing microdynamics, especially in the decay of sound that's even better than the UE-10. It produces as much detail as Ety, imo, but does one step above by providing a level of detail that Ety's leave off completely. The question is whether you'll be able to distinguish this extra level of detail apart from the rising notes.


Quote:
Since the sensas and UE10's sound so great directly out of the source, maybe you can sell one of you amps and get the UE5's (Just kidding, I suppose the madness must stop somewhere).

Again, thanks for an excellent and timely review!
Hehehe... I'll do that when gsferrari gets his CD3000 from me LOL...
post #58 of 271
DJ George and lindrone --

Obviously we are all at a disadvantage here in that none of us has heard every canalphone -- specifically the UE5c vs UE10Pro vs Sensa.

lindrone's review, as expected, does not give the edge to the UE10Pro for detail vs the Sensa -- despite the three drivers vs two. Therefore, if three drivers do not yield more detail from the UE10Pro to the Sensa, it is not a tremendous leap to get to the following conclusion: that there may not be a significant/discernable detail difference from the UE10Pro to the UE5c. Indeed, the follks at UE did not indicate that there was a detail difference between the two models, but rather a balance/bass/tonality difference. Indeed, it is this difference -- deliberate, even, since he designed them for that purpose -- that may well explain why Jerry at UE prefers the UE5c for his Ipod.

On the UE5c, the vocals are not forward as described for the UE10Po; nor is there harshness or sibilance. There is bass, to be sure, but not overwhelming bass. Even UT's reaction, I expect, is consistent with this -- he is looking for what Jerry calls "harshness" in the rapping of the drums. (My discussion here is all craziness, of course, since I am not UT and my experience with the UE5c is clearly very different from his. Either his drivers are faulty or are ears are very different or both!) There is a very very deep low end bass but I don't experience a mid-bass hump or distortion in the rest of the spectrum as a result.

That said -- my view is that of the two phones (UE10 vs UE5c) the UE5c comes closest to the Sensa in the way lindrone describes the sound. This would make sense in that they are both two driver phones rather than three plus it is clear that the UE5c is tuned for recorded music rather than live performance. I'm sure lindrone will disagree with this but since neither of us has heard the other's phones well one view's as good as another. I'm just going on the language he uses to describe the Sensas, and the language I would use to describe the UE5c. That specific vocabulary aside, his description of the UE10Pro does not jive with my experience of the UE5c.

While I was half teasing lindrone in suggesting that lindrone needs to try the UE5c too I was half serious as well. (Just kidding, lindrone -- you've spent enough!) But if not lindrone, at least someone else needs to take the plunge. At $550 it's almost half the risk of these others and judging from my own experience (which, sadly, is all any of us have to go on until Wolfen gets his UE5cs) Jerry is right about the balance of these 'phones for recorded music. Even if the Sensas are better (which of course none of us will ever know -- since none of us will compare them all) the UE5c's have the advantage of being quite a bit cheaper making them much less of a leap of faith than the others. I still think if you're going to buy something "ears unheard" you should give the UE5c serious consideration.
post #59 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrone
Hehehe... I'll do that when gsferrari gets his CD3000 from me LOL...
When can I send you a check?

I wont ask you when I will receive the headphones because they have already been in my hands once before and they ran over to me real fast...probably didnt love the TLC they were getting in your hands

OMG - Sovkiller will LHFAO (H - His) when he hears that I want a CD-3000
post #60 of 271
I want to know something important



I am positive that if you should want to sell your custom moulded headphones, you can attempt to break open the moulding and salvage the drivers inside. Ship these to the buyer who will ship them to UE or Sensa along with their ear canal impressions. UE or Sensa will just have to replace the salvaged drivers into a new mould.

Sounds fairly easy - anybody want to ask UE/Sensa this question??
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