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Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials. - Page 6

post #76 of 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
 

I have been a stat fan most of my life,  first with Koss, then Stax and even Jaecklin. I appreciate the sense of reality they provide and their tonal accuracy.  I take it you hear a lot of acoustic music that gives a reference to decide if a sound is accurate. People who only know amplified sound lack this reference and mainly seem to judge on the basis of bass slam, as in a rock concert. And if that's what you like and will be listening to and don't mind damaging your hearing, that's fine.

 

We're of the same mind on this exactly. I only listen to acoustic music. Classical, about 8 hours a day while I work at the computer these days mainly. I agree with what you say about amplified music. It starts off as an electronic signal, then is sent through compressors and all sorts of stuff, and out a dynamic speaker at 130 SPL. What's the obsession with reproducing that?

 

 

 

Quote:
The main criticism of stats is edginess of treble and lack of dynamics because they are so hard to drive. That's why the $5,000 amplifiers. 

 

I think they're both myths because of the reasons you say above. People are used to hearing an electronic instrument through dynamic speakers, and stats will reproduce that as ... an electronic signal through dynamic speakers. That is, exactly as they sound. The "lack of dynamics" and "treble edge" myth is because it's the wrong transducer for a type of music that was created and mixed for dynamic drivers. 

 

There is no lack of dynamics, and no treble edge with Stax with classical music, which has more dynamic shifts and use of the treble than electronic music. 

post #77 of 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earspeakers View Post
 

Hi Guys,

   I've got some time now and so would like to experiment with this. I've read the thread but am not clear on an approach. Caveats:

 

  • I don't want to disassemble or extensively modify the headphones, just add it externally to where it will have the greatest potential effect
  • I'd also like to do blind A-B tests. Which is two headphones in the same line (Lambda-Lambda or Omega-Omega) one with, and one without. I'll have my wife place the speakers on my head with my eye closed so I don't know which is which.

 

Ideally they'd be the same model, but I have a 404 and 404LE that practically sound the same. So, given a Lambda frame, what should I do given that I'm not going to disassemble? 

 

I haven't worked with Sorb previously, so please recommend a source from Amazon (Prime shipping ideally) that would be a good choice for this test if you have any thoughts on this. 

 

Thanks!

Now, this isn't rocket science nor is it particular difficult to play with.
If you are going to try it out on your lambdas x04 and prior, you will most probably benefit the most from adding the sorb directly onto the baffle or the driver itself (around the edge) - in my experience it doesn't make much difference.

Dismantling your Lambda's isn't particular hard either.
Just lift the very corner of your pads, and loosen up the screw.
When you have removed all four screws you probably need to use some gentle force draging out the baffle - put the screwdriver into one of the screw holes ...angle it a bit and drag gently ... then it pops out, and you can add the sorb. Takes about five min.
afterwards you can press the baffle back into place - but leave it unscrewed - for your initial listning.

In rgrds to Lambda x07 its different, all plastic ... no expereince ... as I recall some guy "Calgary" changed the baffle on his 407 or 507 into aluminium ... and reported improvement ... but I have no experience.

In rgrds to the 007 ... you can just tab on the housing and easily find the resonance ...also a very gentle finger on each arc removes it completely
Before being taken away sorbing the 007 please make sure that your pads/springs are correctly setup ... it does change the sound significantly.

 

Source: I have used sheets of 3M 200MP, I am not sure what Edstrelow has used.
 

Lets us know of your findings :o)

post #78 of 806
post #79 of 806

I don't know why I cannot edit my post. I forgot to mention that I couldn't find (cheap) self adhesive sorbothane. Would any regular double sticky tape be appropriate in this case? Thanks!

 

Edit: now I've found the EDIT button... stupid me...:)

post #80 of 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by soren_brix View Post
 

Now, this isn't rocket science nor is it particular difficult to play with.

Didn't say it was :wink_face: I just want to do it according to best practice so as to get the best result.

 

Thanks otherwise. 

post #81 of 806

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earspeakers View Post
 
  • I don't want to disassemble or extensively modify the headphones, just add it externally to where it will have the greatest potential effect

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earspeakers View Post
 

Didn't say it was :wink_face: I just want to do it according to best practice so as to get the best result.

 

Thanks otherwise. 

 

I guess there are not much you can do with sorbothane apart from making things worse.

If you are talking about the Lambdas(x04 prior)/Sigmas you don't improve anything without doing a diassemble - however the mod is fully reversible :wink_face:.

The 007 you need to removed the Pads in order to do the Edstrelow mod (I haven't),

post #82 of 806
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soren_brix View Post
 

 

I guess there are not much you can do with sorbothane apart from making things worse.

If you are talking about the Lambdas(x04 prior)/Sigmas you don't improve anything without doing a diassemble - however the mod is fully reversible :wink_face:.

The 007 you need to removed the Pads in order to do the Edstrelow mod (I haven't),

Just to convince yourself that something is going on here you might get somewhere by sticking

bits of sorb around the case of a phone,  However there is not much room on the Lambdas. Then again as you say it will not be as effective as placing it on the baffle.

 

At Canjam someone handed me a pair of Audio Technica's http://www.trustedreviews.com/audio-technica-ath-w1000x-review to see what I thought.  I of course thought they needed damping so I put a thin strip of 1/8 sorb on the metal section next to each wooden cup. I could tell a slight gain in bass, and spatial imaging  and a bigger reduction in raspiness The owner seemed quite happy with the results.

 

With the 007 you only need to take off the pads to dampen where I placed sorb. That's the easy part, getting the pads back on is tricky.  Stax really didn't put much effort into this aspect of this phone but I now have a routine for doing it.  I also dampen the headband which is obviously easier to get to.

 

I think you can hear some benefit sticking sorb on the outside of the SRXIII and the 007 and I am sure now that the 009 needs it.


Edited by edstrelow - 3/31/15 at 10:10pm
post #83 of 806
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
 

So, just to be sure, this is it, right? http://www.ebay.com/itm/SORBOTHANE-SHEET-6X6x1-8-VIBRATION-ISO-RUBBER-PAD-50D-/370216984580

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Quichotte View Post
 

I don't know why I cannot edit my post. I forgot to mention that I couldn't find (cheap) self adhesive sorbothane. Would any regular double sticky tape be appropriate in this case? Thanks!

 

Edit: now I've found the EDIT button... stupid me...:)

This looks like what I have been using except the self-stick. This one is a self stick. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SORBOTHANE-SHEET-6X6x1-8-150mmx150mmx2-4mm-PAD-SELF-STICK-SHEET-AUDIOQUEST-/251852273912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa390b8f8

post #84 of 806

Thanks! I'll post my impressions after trying the mod (will take a few weeks due to the long shipping time).

post #85 of 806
Thread Starter 

Currawong pointed me to this site which does expensive rebuilds of phones and which include damping material called dynamat, a car stereo sound deadener. It would seem to serve the same purpose as sorbothane although I don't know about the relative effectiveness of the two substances. Their discussion about cup vibrations mirrors my own thoughts. Of course the sorbothane mods only cost a dollar or so.  This site charges up to $1400.00,  although it includes recabling and wooden cups.

 

http://www.lawtonaudio.com/fostexupgradepackages.html


Edited by edstrelow - 4/2/15 at 10:06pm
post #86 of 806

That whole website screams TLDR at me. Where are the price tags?

post #87 of 806

On your bill after the mods are done     :eek:

post #88 of 806
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikoma View Post
 

That whole website screams TLDR at me. Where are the price tags?

Towards the bottom of the first page. WTF is TLDR?

post #89 of 806

Too long don't read.

post #90 of 806

Torn Leg, Didn't Run.

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