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1964 Ears Adel IEMs - Page 30

post #436 of 8696

I'm not worried about the stretch goals.  I'm more concerned about build quality which I hope will be top notch as these seem somewhat more complicated than traditional balanced armature IEMs.

post #437 of 8696
Can't comment on how well ADEL will work, but I live in Portland and just stopped by 1964 EARS earlier in the week to demo their regular lineup. The universals they had out for demo were very comfortable and the craftsmanship was too notch.

I brought my Fiio X5 and listened to several songs ranging from classical to electronic to metal to rock.

As far as sound goes...

V6S (U6) was more neutral - a but mid-centric - with good bass extension but no mid-bass hump. I liked it a lot - probably my favorite.

Qi (V4) and V8 (U8) will be a bit warmer but I didn't find it intrusive. More like the bass came out to play when needed but stayed put otherwise. I liked both if these quite a lot, too.

V6 (U5) was the most neutral - a bit in the analytical side with emphasized treble. My least favorite.

V6S and V8 had the best, most 3D soundstage.

I was considering getting either V6S or V8 on Black Friday but am now rethinking that and am strongly considering U6 or U8. The discussion earlier whether to get U6 and Eq bass up as needed vs. U8 and Eq bass down as needed has me stuck. I don't typically Eq much, so some guidance on which strategy would be technically better would be appreciated. My gut tells me subtractive Eq would be better and to get the U8. Concerns over Eq-ing up the U6 bass and associated risk of distortion seems valid. Any thoughts?
post #438 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

The discussion earlier whether to get U6 and Eq bass up as needed vs. U8 and Eq bass down as needed has me stuck. I don't typically Eq much, so some guidance on which strategy would be technically better would be appreciated. My gut tells me subtractive Eq would be better and to get the U8. Concerns over Eq-ing up the U6 bass and associated risk of distortion seems valid. Any thoughts?

I think there's been a misunderstanding. You won't be able to EQ the bass up. The Adel knob does not have an EQ function, it's basically an ambient knob to allow some airflow in. The result of that is a loss of bass, hence 1964's statement that you could reduce the bass with the knob is actually due to the consequence of their main function.
So with the knob closed, your Adel should have the similar sound as a fully sealed V series. Open the knob for the Adel to work and open up more to lose more bass.
post #439 of 8696
@Levanter: Yup, there's a miscommunication. I was referring to Eq on my DAP - not ADEL / ambient dial. Thinking it might be better to practice subtractive Eq on U8 with my DAP rather than boost U6 using Eq on my DAP. Make sense?
post #440 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

@Levanter: Yup, there's a miscommunication. I was referring to Eq on my DAP - not ADEL / ambient dial. Thinking it might be better to practice subtractive Eq on U8 with my DAP rather than boost U6 using Eq on my DAP. Make sense?

Ahh ok lol. I've never EQed my DAPs all my life. In a sense i'm a bit of a purist lol
post #441 of 8696

I've seen two things come up recently which I think should be addressed, as much asI'm able based purely on doing quite a bit of reading! – 

 

Point 1: People seem to be talking about the 'safety' of the ADEL/ReaLoud tech actually working etc. The consensus is, even without those things, if you want a Universal V6S/V8 then you're still fine with the U8/U6. They still sound pretty much identical, as far as 1964 Ears have said. I don't understand why the technology is even up for debate regarding whether this will be a 'worthwhile' investment for those two, because of what I've just said - would you want a Universal V6s/V8 at those prices? I sure would, regardless of whether the tech will save my hearing or not, because I'm still getting those iems for a lot cheaper. 

 

Point 2: this whole thing about EQ-ing. If you EQ the bass of the V8 down, it will not increase clarity. the sound signature has still been tuned as warmer than the V6S. All you'll do is remove some bass from the overall sound sig. On the other side of this, you won't be able to add much bass whilst retaining quality with the V6S. HOWEVER, It will still handle EQing to some extent without clipping etc. Clipping is pretty rare when the track is from a clean source running through iems of this calibre - there's still TWO (1964Eras!) drivers for the bass. If they can't handle a small amount of EQing then there's an issue. Am I wrong? Sure, if you increase the low freqs a huge amount, of course it's going to distort the sound, but I don't think anyone here would EQ any more than a pretty tiny amount. 

 

Point 3: Opening the ambient port will 'reduce bass' but should not be seen as a way of 'hardware EQing' because it will both increase ambient sound and also change the sound sig because of this. I personally probably won't even touch the ambient port unless I need it for it's actual purpose - I don't think it should be seen as a bass control device. 

 

Point 4: ericr has said the V6S has better quality bass than the SM64, with more extension as well and slightly more quantity. If this is true, the V6S or U6 (for anyone still in the same dilemma as me) WILL offer good bass. This will not be a tinny or an overly analytical iem. There will still be plenty of warmth.Therefore it's must be fair to assume U8 will be HEAVY on the bass. It won't be 'bad', but it will be big, and therefore far from the seemingly sort after 'neutral'   sound many people here are after. 

 

Penny for your thoughts?

post #442 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorterlaing View Post

I've seen two things come up recently which I think should be addressed, as much asI'm able based purely on doing quite a bit of reading! – 

Point 1: People seem to be talking about the 'safety' of the ADEL/ReaLoud tech actually working etc. The consensus is, even without those things, if you want a Universal V6S/V8 then you're still fine with the U8/U6. They still sound pretty much identical, as far as 1964 Ears have said. I don't understand why the technology is even up for debate regarding whether this will be a 'worthwhile' investment for those two, because of what I've just said - would you want a Universal V6s/V8 at those prices? I sure would, regardless of whether the tech will save my hearing or not, because I'm still getting those iems for a lot cheaper. 

I totally agree with this and am still considering jumping on this KS with either U6 or U8.

Quote:
Point 2: this whole thing about EQ-ing. If you EQ the bass of the V8 down, it will not increase clarity. the sound signature has still been tuned as warmer than the V6S. All you'll do is remove some bass from the overall sound sig. On the other side of this, you won't be able to add much bass whilst retaining quality with the V6S. HOWEVER, It will still handle EQing to some extent without clipping etc. Clipping is pretty rare when the track is from a clean source running through iems of this calibre - there's still TWO (1964Eras!) drivers for the bass. If they can't handle a small amount of EQing then there's an issue. Am I wrong? Sure, if you increase the low freqs a huge amount, of course it's going to distort the sound, but I don't think anyone here would EQ any more than a pretty tiny amount. 

Not sure what you're basing this on. Have you auditioned and tested EQ on both V6S and V8? I'm pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V6S with V8 by EQing down bass (especially mid-bass) and EQing up mids. I'm also pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V8 with V6S by EQing up sub-bass a bit, mid bass quite a bit, and EQing down the mids. Will it be perfect? No, of course not. My point in asking was that I *think* EQing down bass and EQing mids up for V8 would lead to less distortion than EQing up bass for V6S.

Quote:
Point 3: Opening the ambient port will 'reduce bass' but should not be seen as a way of 'hardware EQing' because it will both increase ambient sound and also change the sound sig because of this. I personally probably won't even touch the ambient port unless I need it for it's actual purpose - I don't think it should be seen as a bass control device. 

Again, I totally agree with this.

Quote:
Point 4: ericr has said the V6S has better quality bass than the SM64, with more extension as well and slightly more quantity. If this is true, the V6S or U6 (for anyone still in the same dilemma as me) WILL offer good bass. This will not be a tinny or an overly analytical iem. There will still be plenty of warmth.Therefore it's must be fair to assume U8 will be HEAVY on the bass. It won't be 'bad', but it will be big, and therefore far from the seemingly sort after 'neutral'   sound many people here are after. 

Yes, V6S has great bass but not enough for tracks where bass realy digs deep like some EDM does. This is where V8 excels. And again, this gets back to the question of whether it's better to EQ bass up for V6S or EQ bass down for V8.

I'm hoping someone here with both can perform that little scientific experiment and let us know. Hint, hint @Ivabign...


Quote:
Penny for your thoughts?

How about a dime? Pennies aren't worth much anymore 😜
post #443 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

Not sure what you're basing this on. Have you auditioned and tested EQ on both V6S and V8? I'm pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V6S with V8 by EQing down bass (especially mid-bass) and EQing up mids. I'm also pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V8 with V6S by EQing up sub-bass a bit, mid bass quite a bit, and EQing down the mids. Will it be perfect? No, of course not. My point in asking was that I *think* EQing down bass and EQing mids up for V8 would lead to less distortion than EQing up bass for V6S.
Again, I totally agree with this.
Yes, V6S has great bass but not enough for tracks where bass realy digs deep like some EDM does. This is where V8 excels. And again, this gets back to the question of whether it's better to EQ bass up for V6S or EQ bass down for V8.

I'm hoping someone here with both can perform that little scientific experiment and let us know. Hint, hint @Ivabign...

How about a dime? Pennies aren't worth much anymore 😜

I think the issue I was raising is that distortion isn't really likely to occur with 2 drivers using minimal eqing. I refuse to believe 2 weeks 1964ears drivers couldn't handle a little bit.

As for then not having 'enough' bass, it sounds like ericr would disagree with you there... and if he's right and the v6s has as in quantity as the sm64 then for me it demo has enough I'm not sure how more than that would make it better... And if a track is inherently bass I'm not sure how the v6s would somehow fail to represent that?
post #444 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorterlaing View Post

I think the issue I was raising is that distortion isn't really likely to occur with 2 drivers using minimal eqing. I refuse to believe 2 weeks 1964ears drivers couldn't handle a little bit.

As for then not having 'enough' bass, it sounds like ericr would disagree with you there... and if he's right and the v6s has as in quantity as the sm64 then for me it demo has enough I'm not sure how more than that would make it better... And if a track is inherently bass I'm not sure how the v6s would somehow fail to represent that?

Well, you and ericr and I will have to agree to disagree regarding optimal bass quantity for some of my EDM tracks with deep, powerful bass. V8 definitely sounded better and more accurate with those tracks to my ears.

Was V6S okay for those tracks? Sure, it was.

Was V8 better? Yes, it was.

Would I complain about V6S if I wasn't switching back and forth between the two? Probably not, but since I was switching back and forth, I could tell that to my ears V8 sounded better with bassy music and I don't consider myself a basshead.

I also don't want people to get the impression that I think V6S doesn't have enough bass in general. For an all-rounder, it's got more than enough bass. I was pointing out that for specific track, such as Senking's Chainsawfish, V8 provided the more accurate representation.

I honestly think V6S is the better all-rounder for most people. I however listen to a lot of music with deep bass and think V8 sounded great with that type of music. I also think V8 sounded pretty darn good as an all-rounder but could be cooled off a bit and have a bit of brightness added with EQ.
Edited by nmatheis - 11/30/14 at 2:06pm
post #445 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post


I totally agree with this and am still considering jumping on this KS with either U6 or U8.
Not sure what you're basing this on. Have you auditioned and tested EQ on both V6S and V8? I'm pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V6S with V8 by EQing down bass (especially mid-bass) and EQing up mids. I'm also pretty sure you could get a reasonable approximation of V8 with V6S by EQing up sub-bass a bit, mid bass quite a bit, and EQing down the mids. Will it be perfect? No, of course not. My point in asking was that I *think* EQing down bass and EQing mids up for V8 would lead to less distortion than EQing up bass for V6S.
Again, I totally agree with this.
Yes, V6S has great bass but not enough for tracks where bass realy digs deep like some EDM does. This is where V8 excels. And again, this gets back to the question of whether it's better to EQ bass up for V6S or EQ bass down for V8.

I'm hoping someone here with both can perform that little scientific experiment and let us know. Hint, hint @Ivabign...

How about a dime? Pennies aren't worth much anymore 😜

Don't EQ anything upwards. Hard clipping. Distortion occurs just under 0dB (don't quote me but I think its -0.2dB) .. Increasing the gain on certain frequencies is sure to leave an unfair comparison.


Edited by xedjflowx - 11/30/14 at 6:55pm
post #446 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by xedjflowx View Post
 

Don't EQ anything upwards. Hard clipping. Distortion occurs just under 0dB (don't quote me but I think its -0.2dB) .. Increasing the gain on certain frequencies is sure to leave an unfair comparison.

Seems like the software should be smarter about this.  You should be able to EQ how ever you would like, and it should adjust the overall gain such that there was no hard clipping.

post #447 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by xedjflowx View Post

Don't EQ anything upwards. Hard clipping. Distortion occurs just under 0dB (don't quote me but I think its -0.2dB) .. Increasing the gain on certain frequencies is sure to leave an unfair comparison.

Yup, good point. I do understand the subtractive EQ philosophy. I was more getting at is it better to get something like V8, which is inherently bassy, and EQ down the bass as needed OR get something like V6S and EQ down mids/highs as needed.
post #448 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post


Yup, good point. I do understand the subtractive EQ philosophy. I was more getting at is it better to get something like V8, which is inherently bassy, and EQ down the bass as needed OR get something like V6S and EQ down mids/highs as needed.

Sorry to pick you up on a teeny point, but I don't think anyone has ever ever even hinted at the V6S being overly bright or having 'too much' mid/highs. The only thing the V6S 'lacks' (apparently up for debate) is bass, and that is the thing you shouldn't EQ up to try an achieve. 

On a side note, I really have difficultly believing that EQing the bass down on a V8 would give you the clarity of the V6S. I Haven't heard either, but I'm pretty sure they're tuned quite differently...?

post #449 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

Well, you and ericr and I will have to agree to disagree regarding optimal bass quantity for some of my EDM tracks with deep, powerful bass. V8 definitely sounded better and more accurate with those tracks to my ears.

......

I honestly think V6S is the better all-rounder for most people. I however listen to a lot of music with deep bass and think V8 sounded great with that type of music. I also think V8 sounded pretty darn good as an all-rounder but could be cooled off a bit and have a bit of brightness added with EQ.

(Edit: typos...)

I own a V6S, and I also demoed the V8. And I guess I agree with you - V8 indeed performs better for bassy tracks, and appears to be more enjoyable than V6S when I listen to my Japanese anime tracks. I don't consider myself a basshead, but I prefer a sound signature with a little bit more bass, unless when I'm listening to classical music.

When I bought my V6S, V8 was not yet available. I was choosing between V6 and V6S. After hours of demoing, in the end I went for V6S - because there was a bit more bass and a wider soundstage. What I didn't realize when I was demoing was - there is a minor problem of sibilance on a few tracks for V6S. It took me awhile to get used to it.

But then, I was more impressed by the V8 when I got the chance to demo it - I felt that this was the CIEM I should have got. But I wouldn't say I regret getting V6S - it is still a very competent CIEM, which can handle a wider range of music.

Whether V6, V6S or V8 is better is still up for debate. Several of my friends preferred V6 - they felt that it was more coherent, balanced and clear. But I prefer an IEM which would give me a more enjoyable and engaging sound signature - which is what the V6S is giving me. (But I have also pledged U8 :P)
post #450 of 8696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonelyers View Post


(Edit: typos...)

I own a V6S, and I also demoed the V8. And I guess I agree with you - V8 indeed performs better for bassy tracks, and appears to be more enjoyable than V6S when I listen to my Japanese anime tracks. I don't consider myself a basshead, but I prefer a sound signature with a little bit more bass, unless when I'm listening to classical music.

When I bought my V6S, V8 was not yet available. I was choosing between V6 and V6S. After hours of demoing, in the end I went for V6S - because there was a bit more bass and a wider soundstage. What I didn't realize when I was demoing was - there is a minor problem of sibilance on a few tracks for V6S. It took me awhile to get used to it.

But then, I was more impressed by the V8 when I got the chance to demo it - I felt that this was the CIEM I should have got. But I wouldn't say I regret getting V6S - it is still a very competent CIEM, which can handle a wider range of music.

Whether V6, V6S or V8 is better is still up for debate. Several of my friends preferred V6 - they felt that it was more coherent, balanced and clear. But I prefer an IEM which would give me a more enjoyable and engaging sound signature - which is what the V6S is giving me. (But I have also pledged U8 :P)

Haha I feel like I'm pouncing on anyone that's heard the two - I know the V6S is brighter overall, I know the V8 is warmer, but I just want reassurance I'm backing the right one (U8 at this point!) – does the V8 have plenty of detail and clarity for you? I don't want to end up with some muddy thing just for the sake of good bass....

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