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MrSpeakers Alpha PRIME: Impressions and Discussion Thread - Page 20

post #286 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1110 View Post


Yep, they're ruthless with bad recordings. I think they're really accurate headphones, but that isn't always a good thing. The AP will probably render a lot of my music unlistenable. I wasn't expecting that. The flipside is that they make well recorded music sound incredible and as long as that criteria is met they're also great genre masters. I think we're in high-end territory with these.


Yep.  And that's where I'm conflicted.  Not to brag or anything, but frankly I can afford a Stax SR-009, Senn HD800, and perhaps the Abyss.   I deliberately stay out of TOTL/Summit stuff because I'm old enough to realize what a commitment it is.  I'm agnostic when it comes to hi-rez vs. Redbook and stuff like that.  But getting ahold of great masters of incredible recordings is a whole other endeavor, and requires time, effort, patience, and experience.

 

The darn Primes appear to put Summit-fi equipment in the reach of an upper mid-fi budget.  Sure, I didn't spend THOUSANDS of dollars for this particular rig.  But I find myself staring at curating my collection, analyzing and exploring...

 

..and yes, I am complaining about how good these are !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edit: and one more complaint, these are every bit as revealing as my memory of the detail of the GS1000e's or the HE-560's.  Dan, what have you done to me!


Edited by swspiers - 11/22/14 at 10:19am
post #287 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 


Yep.  And that's where I'm conflicted.  Not to brag or anything, but frankly I can afford a Stax SR-009, Senn HD800, and perhaps the Abyss.   I deliberately stay out of TOTL/Summit stuff because I'm old enough to realize what a commitment it is.  I'm agnostic when it comes to hi-rez vs. Redbook and stuff like that.  But getting ahold of great masters of incredible recordings is a whole other endeavor, and requires time, effort, patience, and experience.

 

The darn Primes appear to put Summit-fi equipment in the reach of an upper mid-fi budget.  Sure, I didn't spend THOUSANDS of dollars for this particular rig.  But I find myself staring at curating my collection, analyzing and exploring...

 

..and yes, I am complaining about how good these are !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edit: and one more complaint, these are every bit as revealing as my memory of the detail of the GS1000e's or the HE-560's.  Dan, what have you done to me!


My primes arrive in a week, but I've listened on my home rig, the he-560 and hd800 extensively and aside from the tilt towards brightness and thineness those two tend to have, I never really had an issue with all this extra detail making something sound bad because of hearing all the extra details you wouldn't want to hear. I totally understand though that with older albums, lower quality recording equipment, etc that those would sound worse, so no argument against anything you're saying. I just wanted to add that for the most part most music made in the last 15 years, youtube videos (that are in hd and have high production value), netflix, etc will all not really be negatively affected by this extra detail retrieval and clarity these high end headphones have. Instead what I experienced is anything recorded really really well, or like very well produced electronic music with soft tiny details, will stand out as being very very good, but everything else will still sound very good (just not very very good lol). So its really more like two levels of good, instead of good sounding vs. bad sounding. But thats just me, and my rig, and my music/audio sources. I just wanted to make sure anyone new to detailed headphones dont get put off and think they will make all their music and videos suddenly sound horrible. Its a more specific situation type of thing. most stuff, esp modern stuff (even the compressed stuff) will sound fine.

 

But I do know some people actually dont like all this extra detail, like my dad for instance, hes more of a speaker guy and when I was trying the hd800s and he-560s I let him try them too for comparison to what hes used to, and he didn't like them at all. Granted I wasn't sold on either of them, but I could have definitely lived with them and made some changes to my rig. but he was like completely turned off by them. He said all the extra detail and thinness distracted him from the music, kinda the usual too analytical complaint. For me I'm a drummer, and I've always held the notion that when I'm playing drums, I'm hearing every single tiny detail ever, more than any microphone could ever pick up. So for me having more detail retrieval in a headphone just makes sense because in real life you hear everything, so for me more detail = more like real life. Thats my context regarding my opinions lol. Hope this helps anyone unfamiliar with highly detailed headphones.

post #288 of 2503

I sure hope you guys recognize the ironic humor in my comments.  Maybe I need more smilies  :D

post #289 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 

I sure hope you guys recognize the ironic humor in my comments.  Maybe I need more smilies  :D


I did, just wanted to make those that didn't had a clear picture lol. All in all your posts make me feel more confident in my purchase :)

post #290 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxelrod92 View Post
 


I did, just wanted to make those that didn't had a clear picture lol. All in all your posts make me feel more confident in my purchase :)


Oh good.  That being said, these headphones remind me of listening to Ozzy Osbourne through MBL, upper-end Maggies, or B&W Nautilus. It's something that should never, ever happen.

post #291 of 2503

I'm happy you made the point about ironic humor, but I was just going to urge, have faith! I got my Primes Thursday afternoon and posted about recessed music at one hour or less... I regret that life has intruded so I only have 16 hours on mine but they have jumped into the territory that I heard at RMAF! There I heard a little female vocal with nicely

fleshed out band, but I'm not familiar with her and Dan was very busy so I didn't ask. I am using the stock cable so far, and have not listened to poorly recorded music yet, but

 

Mike Oldfield        The Songs of Distant Earth

Joe Bonamassa Different Shades of Blue

SRV                       Couldn't Stand the Weather

 

have all sounded great!  I cannot afford any more expensive phones, in fact I sort of hope Dan doesn't find a way to blow by the Primes :-)  but if so I'll just have to wave as the new ones go by  :-)

 

Next week I will devote more time to the Vanquish cables but the stock cable is just fine! Good listening to you all!

 

Doug

post #292 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post


Oh good.  That being said, these headphones remind me of listening to Ozzy Osbourne through MBL, upper-end Maggies, or B&W Nautilus. It's something that should never, ever happen.

You should try listening to Dragnet by The Fall. That is the yardstick by which all poor recordings should be measured.
post #293 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 


Casper- I notice that the most powerful amp you have is the Centrance.  I realize it is a premium product.  But it would be really interesting to get you reaction to an amp that can output more than 1 watt into the Primes.

 

I could be totally wrong about this, and I am a fan of using the right amount of power without overkill.  But I suspect the 1 watt rating of the Centrance is for a 16-Ohm load.

 

Well that is a valid point of course. 

 

For you reference, my setting on the CEntrance is only MID GAIN and then up to level 60% of max, so that leaves much headroom on the M8 capacity.

(then it is already really laud, max level on mid gain will hurt your ears)

 

 

I do not have a more powerful DAC/AMP or AMP. So I have no idea on how they would perform on a full size AMP.

 

The CEntrance pushes up to 1.4W max ... My 250 Ohm Beyers go loud till deaf with it.

Dan Clark said they are great on the Centrance M8, but I did not ask for a desk AMP.

 

Any good advise or suggestion for a small form Desk AMP or DAC/AMP?

It is something I still need in my inventory   :-)    I ll sniff the forum a bit!!

 

 

Thanks for the input and thought,

 

Casper


Edited by CasperBxl - 11/22/14 at 11:35am
post #294 of 2503

Casper, I understand.  My FiiO E10 gets loud enough at 5 with the Primes to make me wince. But it can't compete with the bass, smoothness, or anything with the Burson.  This is the first time I have ever heard a difference like this between amps, or a DAC. Soundstage, image, gosh- everything.

 

I think I just lost my Objectivist card.  I can't seem to find it...

 

edit: I forgot.  The Schiit Asgard 2 or even the Magni, if you want to stay solid state.


Edited by swspiers - 11/22/14 at 11:44am
post #295 of 2503

Fallen by Evanescence is one album that I consider poorly recorded as it is heavily compressed but quite complex... I don't care because Amy Lee is awesome and her albums find regular,

rotation in my listening... Quite a bit of whispering underneath loud layers of great rock, and prior to this I found that I was better off using real cheap headphones, so only listened over

my speakers (Tannoy Canterbury SE's). I decided that I should try this album through the Primes and it does it perfectly! The whispering is placed delicately under the full, awesome bass!

These Primes have earned number one in my stable!

post #296 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douger333 View Post
 

Fallen by Evanescence is one album that I consider poorly recorded as it is heavily compressed but quite complex... I don't care because Amy Lee is awesome and her albums find regular,

rotation in my listening... Quite a bit of whispering underneath loud layers of great rock, and prior to this I found that I was better off using real cheap headphones, so only listened over

my speakers (Tannoy Canterbury SE's). I decided that I should try this album through the Primes and it does it perfectly! The whispering is placed delicately under the full, awesome bass!

These Primes have earned number one in my stable!


Um, nice speakers.  Really nice.  I mean, those are classics, and not something I read about very often on this forum.

post #297 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 


Yep.  And that's where I'm conflicted.  Not to brag or anything, but frankly I can afford a Stax SR-009, Senn HD800, and perhaps the Abyss.   I deliberately stay out of TOTL/Summit stuff because I'm old enough to realize what a commitment it is.  I'm agnostic when it comes to hi-rez vs. Redbook and stuff like that.  But getting ahold of great masters of incredible recordings is a whole other endeavor, and requires time, effort, patience, and experience.

 

The darn Primes appear to put Summit-fi equipment in the reach of an upper mid-fi budget.  Sure, I didn't spend THOUSANDS of dollars for this particular rig.  But I find myself staring at curating my collection, analyzing and exploring...

 

..and yes, I am complaining about how good these are !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

edit: and one more complaint, these are every bit as revealing as my memory of the detail of the GS1000e's or the HE-560's.  Dan, what have you done to me!

 

LoL  .... told you so!  :wink_face:   They are wonderful!

 

For me, I'm in the same (great) boat to be able to choose what I would like. I chose them because Dan and the MrSpeakers team put their hart and soul in them.

Small business, personal touch (spoke to Dan just before sending them off to add the XLR cable)

 

I live in an apartment in the noisy city of Brussels (ambulances, trucks, airo's) I needed a GREAT closed headphone.

Big speakers on a big AMP are a no-no for the neighbors and the advantage is that I can use them at work as well.

(during the summer they thought i was watching a war film ... it was Battlefield 4 on my Logitech 5500)

 

 

If you can, try Seasick Steve "I started out with nothing ..."   O_o 

The bass on that recoding, the drum sticks on the side of the snare drums ...  pfff ... you need to sit down for this.

 

...

why do I keep typing 'wonderful' ... !!??  I think it is Dan's fault; by making this great product!

...

 

 

I'm running the standard cable in 3.5mm and I also have the Balanced XLR cable for them.

 

 

As for that they show with bad recordings, I started listening to some tracks I had and it was like half the music was missing.

You can hear the 'gaps' where sound should be. In each case ... now I'm able to find them and weed them out.

 

 

Have fun,

 

Casper

post #298 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 

Casper, I understand.  My FiiO E10 gets loud enough at 5 with the Primes to make me wince. But it can't compete with the bass, smoothness, or anything with the Burson.  This is the first time I have ever heard a difference like this between amps, or a DAC. Soundstage, image, gosh- everything.

 

I think I just lost my Objectivist card.  I can't seem to find it...

 

edit: I forgot.  The Schiit Asgard 2 or even the Magni, if you want to stay solid state.

 

 

I hear you, indeed on my FIIO E18 they also go loud, but the sound is very different. Also with these smaller AMP's you can hear the difference.

The Asgard 2 has about the same output as the CEntrance M8, maybe better with a bit more power then? (Mjolnir?)

 

I also stumbled on the Audio-gd NFB-29 ...  in Balanced 3500MW/100 ohm; 8000MW/40 ohm. That is a DAC/AMP 32/384 and DSD + DXD.

So these can crack my skull!!   :-)

 

The Oppo HA-1 also produces "only" 4.5Vrms => 1W at 16 Ohm.

 

Big mistake above for the Oppo ... (Thank you John for letting me know)

 

Oppo HA-1:

Headphone Amplifier Performance Specifications

 

Specification Condition XLR Input - Balanced Output RCA Input - 6.35 mm Output
Maximum Output Power (Per Channel) Into 600 Ohm 2400 mW 600 mW
Into 32 Ohm 3000 mW 3500 mW
Rated Output Power
(Per Channel)
Into 600 Ohm 800 mW 200 mW
Into 32 Ohm 2000 mW 500 mW
Frequency Response 10 Hz – 200 kHz (+0/-1 dB)
20 Hz – 20 kHz (+0/-0.04 dB)
10 Hz – 200 kHz (+0/-1 dB)
20 Hz – 20 kHz (+0/-0.04 dB)
THD+N at 1k Hz
(A Weight, 20 Hz – 20 kHz)
Rated Power < 0.0018% (< -95 dB) < 0.0056% (< -85 dB)
50 mW < 0.001% (< -100 dB) < 0.0022% (< -93dB)
Channel Separation > 120 dB > 90 dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio
(A Weight, 20 Hz – 20 kHz)
> 111 dB > 111 dB
Dynamic Range
(1 kHz -60 dB, A Weight, 20 Hz – 20 kHz)
> 120 dB > 115 dB
Output Impedance 0.5 Ohm 0.7 Ohm

 

 

 

Dan told me he loves (among other things) the bass on the Centrance

... BUT ... I'm going for a full size shortly, dont worry!!!   :-)   :-)

 

 

 

(other issue is availability here in Belgium, not easy to try or get equipment in this 'niche')

 

Greetings from Brussels,

 

Casper


Edited by CasperBxl - 11/22/14 at 3:03pm
post #299 of 2503

Thank you! I have been a Tannoy fan since 1972 with 12" Monitor Golds in Altec Santana cabinets. Small but fine for the spare bedroom I was confined to by my wife. When

she passed away I was able to take over the nice living room I had lusted after for 16 years...  I got a deal on the Prestige Canterburys and they fill my room with less than 36 tube watts per channel. I really only got into headphones because my youngest daughter moved back in and I needed to be quiet after 10:00.  My PS1000's have the same detail that the

speakers do, and these Primes have detail and all the bass!

post #300 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasperBxl View Post
 

 

 

I hear you, indeed on my FIIO E18 they also go loud, but the sound is very different. Also with these smaller AMP's you can hear the difference.

The Asgard 2 has about the same output as the CEntrance M8, maybe better with a bit more power then? (Mjolnir?)

 

I also stumbled on the Audio-gd NFB-29 ...  in Balanced 3500MW/100 ohm; 8000MW/40 ohm. That is a DAC/AMP 32/384 and DSD + DXD.

So these can crack my skull!!   :-)

 

The Oppo HA-1 also produces "only" 4.5Vrms => 1W at 16 Ohm.

 

 

Dan told me he loves (among other things) the bass on the Centrance

... BUT ... I'm going for a full size shortly, dont worry!!!   :-)   :-)

 

 

 

(other issue is availability here in Belgium, not easy to try or get equipment in this 'niche')

 

Greetings from Brussels,

 

Casper

 

HA-1 is my main rig at the moment.  I owned the HIFI-M8 for a while.  Both are excellent with the Alpha Dogs; I expect they extrapolate to the prime just fine (I'll find out in a week or two, hopefully).  Is there better stuff out there?  Sure.  It sounds.... wait for it.... better.  Kinda down to the vanishing returns point though.  I am lusting after a Bifrost Uber (had one with an Asgard2, but sold them when the HA-1 joined my household) or Gugnir plus a Lyr2.  I'm kind of stuck on the Oppo, though.  I was part of the Beta team for the HA-1, selling it would be like giving up a child, and don't have the extra cash for the upper midfi Schiit gear again at the moment.  That of course means I am not even close to the super high end stuff, or that interested in it.  My point is (I guess I do have a point....) the HIFI-M8 is a heck of a rig, and you aren't giving up much at all.

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