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Sennheiser Momentum over ear replacement..... Denon AH-D600 vs Nad Viso HP50 vs B&W P7 vs B&O... - Page 2

post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Oliveira View Post



Are they too loose on your head? Can you move your head without loosing the fit or seal? (what head size are u? :-D )

 

I know the issue you speak of, but the D600 doesn't have this behaviour. I can turn my head side to side, and nod up and down and not only does the headphone not slide off, but it also keeps a seal. 

 

Btw- the D600 is even more comfy than the HD650. Though I think my HD650 is starting to fit better since I've got it.

 

As far as price goes, neither the D600 nor the P7 are worth their MSRP or typical retail prices for head-fiers that are savvy enough to hunt for good prices or used gear. The P7 did strike me as a better Momentum (initial impression, would have to have them for a while to decide). 

post #17 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post

I know the issue you speak of, but the D600 doesn't have this behaviour. I can turn my head side to side, and nod up and down and not only does the headphone not slide off, but it also keeps a seal. 

Btw- the D600 is even more comfy than the HD650. Though I think my HD650 is starting to fit better since I've got it.

As far as price goes, neither the D600 nor the P7 are worth their MSRP or typical retail prices for head-fiers that are savvy enough to hunt for good prices or used gear. The P7 did strike me as a better Momentum (initial impression, would have to have them for a while to decide). 

Were the momentums worth the rrp malfunkt? In your opinion of course.... Usually i buy all my headphone at half or even a third of the initial price. How do you compare the momentums, p7s and the d600s? Do you think they rank the same in terms of sound quality or is there one that stands out and is a coiple of steps ahead? The d600 is ahead of something like a m50 or a v6 right?
I am buyuing the denon for a third of the price as i said.... Thats why i am interested.... :-D

Also i am very happy to know that they are not that loose on the head. I dont have a tiny head, after all i use my hd25e in the positions were the arms stay perfectly aligned with the cups, but i dont think i have a very big head as well... :-D
Edited by Pedro Oliveira - 8/5/14 at 11:16am
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Oliveira View Post


Upgrade? You are talking about the hd25s and the amperior right?
The nads are at 198 on the french amazon...

 

Yeah.

post #19 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havre View Post

Yeah.

Yeah.... I have to decide fast about those.... A have a buyer who wants to give 120 euros for my hd25 right away anf i can get a new silver amperior for 140 plus 9 euros shipping.... I really have to decide fast...
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Oliveira View Post


Were the momentums worth the rrp malfunkt? In your opinion of course.... Usually i buy all my headphone at half or even a third of the initial price. How do you compare the momentums, p7s and the d600s? Do you think they rank the same in terms of sound quality or is there one that stands out and is a coiple of steps ahead? The d600 is ahead of something like a m50 or a v6 right?
I am buyuing the denon for a third of the price as i said.... Thats why i am interested.... :-D

I didn't own the Momentums, so I haven't been able to evaluate them properly. I'm sure they are good as Sennheiser generally puts out good stuff. 

 

As I understand, the Denon D600 is using a variant on a proven driver that was initially conceived by Foster for Denons previous D2000,D5000 and D7000 line up. A number of owners feel the D600 holds up well against the D2000 and even D5000, with some even preferring the D600. 

 

Been listening to both the D600 and HD650 this morning. After a while of listening to the D600 the bass sounds just right on electronic. However, I would recommending using a bit of EQ on the bass when listening to acoustic, rock, classical and jazz. You can't really have it both ways when it comes to bass. Even on a stereo system EQ (typically low and high) are there for a reason. You can get a much more reference signature by taming the bass of the D600 just by a couple dbs. EQ is perfectly fine to use and my favorite player CanOpener has one built in. On the flipside, many closed headphones don't reproduce bass properly and bass boost won't bring out what isn't there. Treat the D600 like a pair of floorstanding speakers that come with a subwoofer. You may not need the subwoofer on at all times.

 

Some of this may run contrary to opinion, that you build a transparent system, add a reference headphone and everything will sound right. Well it will on certain reference music, but in the case of modern genres that utilize low-frequency it requires a specific speaker designed to reproduce bass. A large part of doing this accurately lies in the enclosure. Unfortunately, with headphones, we are stuck with wearing one enclosure type on our heads. Speakers setups can have multiple enclosures. A two-channel system can by two book shelfs and a subwoofer for instance. 

 

I've listened to reference floor standing speakers (primarily B&W), and they aren't even designed to be sub-woofers. Some floor standing speakers, will even incorporate subwoofers into them. 

 

I think on head-fi, you'll see a number of people have multiple headphones to take advantage of multiple genres. i bought my AH-D600 specifically for electronic music. I was surprised that it also did other genres well, but with that caveat, some EQ required. Without a bit of EQ, a bass player in a jazz section will be too forward, for example. But its a simple fix. Also the mod that someone posted above, may just do exactly what I'm doing through EQ. The bass may be tighter, with the mod, but then, will it reproduce the sub bass as well, not sure about that.

post #21 of 46
Being a P7 user I would have to warn you.

I know both the NAD and the Momentum. They are not bad but from my POV no match for the P7.

The P7 has a great bass, esp in the low section and its definitely not a a slow one, actually quite fast.
The mids are neutral and a slightly in the background. The lower mids are not well defined. The weak point of the P7
Treble? Amazing, quite above the price bracket. Top class actually!

Also a very good soundstage.

But there are three things to know beforehand.

1. Burn-in-time. Minimum of 24hrs required. Out of the box not close to full performance.
2. Scaling. The P7 needs a really good source. Be prepared to invest!
3. Mobile use - not a good Idea due the scaling performance.

For me the 400,- EUR is more like a bargain. Punches very well above is price bracket, but a good source required.

B
post #22 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borbarad View Post

Being a P7 user I would have to warn you.

I know both the NAD and the Momentum. They are not bad but from my POV no match for the P7.

The P7 has a great bass, esp in the low section and its definitely not a a slow one, actually quite fast.
The mids are neutral and a slightly in the background. The lower mids are not well defined. The weak point of the P7
Treble? Amazing, quite above the price bracket. Top class actually!

Also a very good soundstage.

But there are three things to know beforehand.

1. Burn-in-time. Minimum of 24hrs required. Out of the box not close to full performance.
2. Scaling. The P7 needs a really good source. Be prepared to invest!
3. Mobile use - not a good Idea due the scaling performance.

For me the 400,- EUR is more like a bargain. Punches very well above is price bracket, but a good source required.

B

I am sure i would probably love the p7's.... but when i know that i can by an ipad, or a seriously great smartphone with the same money my conscious comes to play and says "NO WAY B****!!!!!!!" XD

 

I am sure they sound fabulous though.... :) But i am more the type og guy that would buy the d600's and a amperior first and still save 100 euros.... :)

 

Maybe one day when they are cheaper but not now.... :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post
 

I didn't own the Momentums, so I haven't been able to evaluate them properly. I'm sure they are good as Sennheiser generally puts out good stuff. 

 

As I understand, the Denon D600 is using a variant on a proven driver that was initially conceived by Foster for Denons previous D2000,D5000 and D7000 line up. A number of owners feel the D600 holds up well against the D2000 and even D5000, with some even preferring the D600. 

 

Been listening to both the D600 and HD650 this morning. After a while of listening to the D600 the bass sounds just right on electronic. However, I would recommending using a bit of EQ on the bass when listening to acoustic, rock, classical and jazz. You can't really have it both ways when it comes to bass. Even on a stereo system EQ (typically low and high) are there for a reason. You can get a much more reference signature by taming the bass of the D600 just by a couple dbs. EQ is perfectly fine to use and my favorite player CanOpener has one built in. On the flipside, many closed headphones don't reproduce bass properly and bass boost won't bring out what isn't there. Treat the D600 like a pair of floorstanding speakers that come with a subwoofer. You may not need the subwoofer on at all times.

. But its a simple fix. Also the mod that someone posted above, may just do exactly what I'm doing through EQ. The bass may be tighter, with the mod, but then, will it reproduce the sub bass as well, not sure about that.

 

First and foremost for those interested on the d600's.... 129 (new) on german amazon right now..... XD
 
Lets continue....
 
First..... my definition of modding is "to ruin something that was in great condition"..... XD my modding skills are equal to 0. I tried to open my ipod touch when it died.... my friends.... not only i did not open it but also i absolutely trashed all the metal back cover.... that was my first and last try of trying to mod something.... even my hd25's.... unless the cable dies or the pads get ruined they will remain in absolutely original shape. :)
 
So basically you think denon tried to recriate the fostex driversof the extinguished d*000 line?
 
I am not too worried about the bass.... i have been talking with another head fi user through private messages about the denons and from what he told me, when compared to the ath m50 the denon lacks a little bit of punch (not much) but on the other hand it is a higher quality bass and much more controlled..... i kind of liked the bass on the m50's, well actually the bass is probably the only thing that i liked on the m50s so basically if the bass on the denon has just a little less punch but still sounds full and a bit more controlled i can handle it....
 
Returning to the hd25 vs amperior malfunkt.... what do you say, should i just forget about it.... gotta tell the guy who wants my hd25 something till tomorrow.... he made me an offer for 120 euros.... i can get a silver amperior for 150 or a blue one for 170.... or i can just save my 30 or 50 euros keep my hd25's and just think of something else.... :)
post #23 of 46

Hi Pedro,

 

I would keep your HD25. Also, regarding splurging $400 for a P7... don't do it! 

 

You can get yourself a Fidelio X1, HE-400, etc...

 

The oney you save by keeping your HD-25 can go to your new purchase. Your HD-25 is as good as the Amperior, just different.

post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post

Hi Pedro,

I would keep your HD25. Also, regarding splurging $400 for a P7... don't do it! 

You can get yourself a Fidelio X1, HE-400, etc...

The oney you save by keeping your HD-25 can go to your new purchase. Your HD-25 is as good as the Amperior, just different.

Thank you very much malfunkt. :-)
Ill keep the hd25s than.... :-) 30 euros saved... Probably to be invested on the denons...
Also a couple of users also told me the bass is basically similat.... Tje diference is mostly on the tamed highs but that the hd25 amped with something like a e11 is even better than the amperior.

But by the way, do you notest any improvement on soundstage when switching from the hd25 to the amperiors?

The p7s? not at all.... As much i would love them i would feel guilty for spending so much on a single pair... As i said i would rather buy the denons and the amperiors. I would waste only 300 and tor me 2 pairs are always better than just one...
Edited by Pedro Oliveira - 8/5/14 at 5:56pm
post #25 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post
 

Hi Pedro,

 

I would keep your HD25. Also, regarding splurging $400 for a P7... don't do it! 

 

You can get yourself a Fidelio X1, HE-400, etc...

 

The oney you save by keeping your HD-25 can go to your new purchase. Your HD-25 is as good as the Amperior, just different.

....and also i am going to take you word and try the denons.... a guy who has a pair of hd25's and a pair of amperiors for sure loves absolutely fun and CLEAR sound and if you like the senns and the denons then the d600's must be one heck of a ride.... :)

 

On the worst case scenario i loose the shipping money and they go back to amazonland...... XD

 

To be honest.... till 150 euros i am not seing any better can.... the x1s for home use seem great but the are at 230.....


Edited by Pedro Oliveira - 8/6/14 at 12:34pm
post #26 of 46
Awesome Pedro. Lookin forward to your impressions.
post #27 of 46
Been listening to my D600s for most of the evening. Haven't even broken out the 650s. Discovered something pretty cool tonight.

I've been able to tell the difference between the iPhone 4s headphone out as compared to going through the C5D. I've been listening to a lot of sparse electronic music this evening, which I think has helped my ears just focus on the effects of single instruments. Some podcasts - Electric Deluxe - and on snares, hats, claps and other electronic percussion I've noticed the sound is slightly muffled on the iPhone compared to the c5d. Also the bass is less on the c5d and slightly more controlled. Soundstage is a little wider too, but that one is harder to tell.

It was hard to notice at first. I had noticed effects using a simple Traktor Audio DJ in the past, which improves the audio out of ipad. The c5d is just a bit more refined, and the amps is wonderful, more so for the 650s. I did most of my listening tonight just using the iPhone and the d600s.

Still all of this is slight. So I don't think you need a DAC/amp with the D600. On the other hand, maybe one day I'll be able to spend some more time with something higher end and change my tune.

It's been raining here, so it's been nice to chill listening to electro and play games of Ascension on the ipad.
post #28 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post

Been listening to my D600s for most of the evening. Haven't even broken out the 650s. Discovered something pretty cool tonight.

I've been able to tell the difference between the iPhone 4s headphone out as compared to going through the C5D. I've been listening to a lot of sparse electronic music this evening, which I think has helped my ears just focus on the effects of single instruments. Some podcasts - Electric Deluxe - and on snares, hats, claps and other electronic percussion I've noticed the sound is slightly muffled on the iPhone compared to the c5d. Also the bass is less on the c5d and slightly more controlled. Soundstage is a little wider too, but that one is harder to tell.

It was hard to notice at first. I had noticed effects using a simple Traktor Audio DJ in the past, which improves the audio out of ipad. The c5d is just a bit more refined, and the amps is wonderful, more so for the 650s. I did most of my listening tonight just using the iPhone and the d600s.

Still all of this is slight. So I don't think you need a DAC/amp with the D600. On the other hand, maybe one day I'll be able to spend some more time with something higher end and change my tune.

It's been raining here, so it's been nice to chill listening to electro and play games of Ascension on the ipad.

Can you please do me a favor malfunkt? If you have the time and patience of course...

How does stuff like biffy clyro (from the album opposites) sounds on them, also stuff like london grammar, florence and the machine and adelle (not that i like adelle but its a good test for female voice), james blake, maximo park, bloc party, artic monkeys... Oh.... Audioslave.... sounds on the d600s?

Also some trancey stuff (old tiesto trance from the beggining of 2000) sounds on them?

Stuff like phynn & fictivision, rank 1, stuff from above & beyond, old armin van buuren and old times ferry corsten sounds on them?

If u dont mind of course.... Sorry for the bother....

Edit:

I am going to leave a couple of links so you dont have to search for my music..... smily_headphones1.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu4Klg7LsB8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBJo2KvFOCQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFdTLMsA2CI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD_HsBZx8zM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDbyV-rHtAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drfp_3823I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7IUC_NbJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p6PcFFUm5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOT2-OTebx0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myc_RViTHhY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VITFBTOb7c

That should do it for now.... sorry for my bad taste.... XD
Biffy clyro's guitars sounded full of resolution and rumble on the momentums for example...,. thats what i liked about them, they are warm and a bit boring but the resolution was so amazing that the guitars sounded almost palpable....
Edited by Pedro Oliveira - 8/7/14 at 5:42am
post #29 of 46
Hi Pedro,

Well the uplifting trance stuff I'm familiar with. I have Kalopsia, and it sounds much more defined in proper bitrate (mp3/lossless/wav) than on YouTube. The D600 is perfect for this music. In Kalopsia the vocal sits well within the mix, and the bassline is well represented. Combined with a spacious sound.

For London Grammar, the YouTube codec again is holding this back a bit. There should be more definition on the top end. So I recommend using high bit rate mp3, lossless or cd quality. I know these links are just representative.

The d600 do an excellent job of space here. Vocal clarity is excellent. The only caveat, as I've mentioned before, is if you tuned down the bass a couple db it would be better for this track. Not. A huge deal, as the d600 has such a nice low end, but it can be a bit too present on some tracks, and compete with some of the lower mid range IMO. A the vocal is still clear, however. Again, I think this is the compromise, that this dynamic driver headphone can produce great bass but should be tamed for more reference listening. Not a problem, it's just the nature of the headphone. Perhaps planar magnetic are different in this respect. Will have to hear some soon.

Importantly, listening to James Blake Overgrown, the bass is great for this musical style, and the bass doesn't compete with the vocal. Everything else sounds lush, transparent and clear. You wouldn't enjoy this track the same way with HD25, you'd lose the rich, clear, and wide presentation.

On Biffy Clyro, no adjustment is needed. For this type of engineering and pop style production, the d600 is fine. Again vocals are well represented and not recessed. i'm beginning to rethink the d600 mid range. It's quite good. Certainly the clarity is there.

What you'll find with all of the above is that you can listen for hours, at comfortable volumes, hear everything, and feel all the impact. One of the reasons I like the d600 so much.

Quite familiar with Limit to your Love, and this is one of the first tracks you should listen to after your D600s have burned in (not sure if this is legitimate, however, I do feel my d600s or perception of them change greatly after a day or so of owning them). This is one of those tracks that people only hear the vocals and percussion, but not the sub bass if they have regular headphones or no subs.

In comparison with the HD25 with this track. On the Hd25, pianos are notoriously flat and compressed sounding (not just for this track, but most other piano recordings, the Amperior fairs better here). But where the hd25 and the majority of headphone will fail begins right at 0:51. What might just sound like wind rushing, the d600 is already producing the sub bass. When the wobble finally hits, you can hear it on the hd25. On the d600 you can feel it. The d600 produces a low end that the hd25 just doesn't represent. As a result, the performance on this song and many other is vastly superior on the d600.

So you are getting superior instrument separation, staging, clarity, soundstage, high end, and sub bass with the d600 over the Hd25.
Edited by Malfunkt - 8/7/14 at 9:07am
post #30 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfunkt View Post

Hi Pedro,

Well the uplifting trance stuff I'm familiar with. I have Kalopsia, and it sounds much more defined in proper bitrate (mp3/lossless/wav) than on YouTube. The D600 is perfect for this music. In Kalopsia the vocal sits well within the mix, and the bassline is well represented. Combined with a spacious sound.

For London Grammar, the YouTube codec again is holding this back a bit. There should be more definition on the top end. So I recommend using high bit rate mp3, lossless or cd quality. I know these links are just representative.

The d600 do an excellent job of space here. Vocal clarity is excellent. The only caveat, as I've mentioned before, is if you tuned down the bass a couple db it would be better for this track. Not. A huge deal, as the d600 has such a nice low end, but it can be a bit too present on some tracks, and compete with some of the lower mid range IMO. A the vocal is still clear, however. Again, I think this is the compromise, that this dynamic driver headphone can produce great bass but should be tamed for more reference listening. Not a problem, it's just the nature of the headphone. Perhaps planar magnetic are different in this respect. Will have to hear some soon.

Importantly, listening to James Blake Overgrown, the bass is great for this musical style, and the bass doesn't compete with the vocal. Everything else sounds lush, transparent and clear. You wouldn't enjoy this track the same way with HD25, you'd lose the rich, clear, and wide presentation.

On Biffy Clyro, no adjustment is needed. For this type of engineering and pop style production, the d600 is fine. Again vocals are well represented and not recessed. i'm beginning to rethink the d600 mid range. It's quite good. Certainly the clarity is there.

What you'll find with all of the above is that you can listen for hours, at comfortable volumes, hear everything, and feel all the impact. One of the reasons I like the d600 so much.

Quite familiar with Limit to your Love, and this is one of the first tracks you should listen to after your D600s have burned in (not sure if this is legitimate, however, I do feel my d600s or perception of them change greatly after a day or so of owning them). This is one of those tracks that people only hear the vocals and percussion, but not the sub bass if they have regular headphones or no subs.

In comparison with the HD25 with this track. On the Hd25, pianos are notoriously flat and compressed sounding (not just for this track, but most other piano recordings, the Amperior fairs better here). But where the hd25 and the majority of headphone will fail begins right at 0:51. What might just sound like wind rushing, the d600 is already producing the sub bass. When the wobble finally hits, you can hear it on the hd25. On the d600 you can feel it. The d600 produces a low end that the hd25 just doesn't represent. As a result, the performance on this song and many other is vastly superior on the d600.

So you are getting superior instrument separation, staging, clarity, soundstage, high end, and sub bass with the d600 over the Hd25.

That seems awesome. :-) so vocals are clear like on the hd25 right? I was affraid they were too recessed or too colred or muffled like on the mdr 1r....
What do you think of the build quality? Anywhere near the ath m50?

Have you heard the andrew bayers remix of "rift"? At 08:07 with that massive soundtage that part must sound absolutely AWESOME!!!!! :-D

Guilty..... I love anjunabeats stuff..... :-D
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Sennheiser Momentum over ear replacement..... Denon AH-D600 vs Nad Viso HP50 vs B&W P7 vs B&O Beoplay H6 vs Dt770 80/32ohm