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Soundcard! Creative SB Z Vs ZxR ! And new Headphones in a near future? Dt880? - Page 2

post #16 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

since some people are confusing you with some conflicting impressions, I d like to direct you to MLE's gaming thread, since he already reviewed both k701,712pro and many

 

www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added

Thank you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhamnetin View Post
 

I recommend the Audio Technica ATH-AD900X.  The forward mids is good for competitive gaming, and it should have enough bass to make games all enjoyable (once burnt in at least).

 

As for a sound card, the ZxR is probably overkill for these.  Unless you go a step ahead and get the AD1000X, which isn't needed for gaming but it will be better for music.  I don't recommend an ASUS sound card for you, the Creative ones will be better for gaming due to better surround options (namely SBX Pro Studio).  The ZxR has a much better DAC among other components so it will provide better sound quality than the Z and Zx.  Pure sound quality will be more or less equal to the ASUS Xonar Essence cards.

 

So AD900X + Sound Blaster Z is great for competitive gaming, though if you want something that makes music more enjoyable as well, go for the AD1000X + Sound Blaster ZxR.  

I will look on these two. Thank you :)






And btw. If i decide to go  for the k701   or the q model or even the k712. Will i notice a big improvement  from my Sennheiser pc 360?


Edited by Swordchan - 8/1/14 at 12:24pm
post #17 of 37

if you want a better alternative, get Sound Blaster Omni and use its optical out with a better amp/dac .

post #18 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordchan View Post

 

And btw. If i decide to go  for the k701   or the q model or even the k712. Will i notice a big improvement  from my Sennheiser pc 360?

 

There will be a big improvement, so you should notice it hopefully.

post #19 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

if you want a better alternative, get Sound Blaster Omni and use its optical out with a better amp/dac .

 

Okok, i will do some reading about that too. Tyty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhamnetin View Post
 

 

There will be a big improvement, so you should notice it hopefully.

Aiight, that's what i wanted to hear. thank you.

 

 

 

I'd like to thank everybody who helped me so far. 

I will do some thinking and probally decide today on what to do. Thanks! This is surely a friendly community!

post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

I have Phoebus and I must say Phoebus one of the most overpriced hardware with below average performance. STX is a great option if you are willing you use uni-xonar drivers.

 

 

for just gaming I d recommend q701,k701, hd598,ma900 but I don't think there is any better all-rounder to k712pro in this price range. 

i have the Phoebus too, and can not confirm this.Its Pricerange is (at least germany. 110€ Phoebus solo, 130€ phoebus, 155 Essence STX) just exactly right for it beeing a very good Choice. Sound is just a nuance worse than the STX (and tonality more neutral), has more features, and a better driver (the driver interface is more intuitive, and you can switch between speakers/headphones with less clicks).

I have used a DT 880 600 Ohm with a Yulong u100 (which is considered slightly ABOVE a Essence STX, and i have not heared a difference between the Yulong u100 and a Phoebus - Thats why i switched to the phoebus, since it replaced the Yulong for headphones, and also my DX for speakers, making it a better overall choice for me. It also has zero problems driving my T90 to the fullest.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordchan View Post
 

Im from sweden. So everything is pretty expensive here. So in other words you recommend the K701 instead of k712 pro? And the t90?  The price difference  between k701 and T90 is huge.

Is the T90 ALOT better than the K701? 


I did look on the PHOEBUS. But its hard to decide wich one to buy. What about the Z model? Its alot cheaper than the zxr.

 

Yupp, it would be nice to have both speakers and headphone plugged in at the same time. 

I play racing games too.

Hmm that depends.

What are your prices there of those products? Might make it easier to make a choice then.

Here its 200€ for AKG K701/Q701/K702 (also depending on prices between those.. Q701 has slightly more bass, and makes a more fun version of the K701. The K702 has a removeable cable. if its just 30 bucks more, take it over the K701), 350-400€ for the T90, 350€ for the AKG K712 Pro.

 

I have tried the K701 with a DT 880 600 Ohm, and chose the DT 880 for me. They sounded veeery similar, DT 880 just more kickbass. but overall at the same level.

K701 went back to the store.. Half year later i ordered a T90. It was NOT "alot" better than the DT 880. I would say.. depending on the musik it maybe sounded... 10-25% better? something like that... But it DID do like everything better (for MY ears), thats why i kept it.

But i kinda do think, no matter if you chose a K7xx for 200 bucks, or a T90 for 400-500 bucks... i dont really believe, that you will be better in gaming with the T90. Games are sadly not that "audiophile" enough to make such a difference. If its JUST for gaming, i will suggest, stay at the 200-250 bucks price range, like AKG Q701~ for example. It does its job here pretty well.

Headphones of the level of a T90 might please you more, if you enjoy Music alot.

 

Other than that the only thing i can suggest you, try both price ranges out, how they perform in games for YOUR ears. Like i said, the only reason i kept the T90 despite its higher price is, that it did EVERYTHIGN better, even if it was just slightly. Slightly better and more bass, slightly more resolution, slightly more room in cups for my ears, alot easier to drive. That together with the fact, that you can keep a Beyerdynamic for decades and still be 100% sure, if anything is wrong, you get the support needed, to make it as good as new again.

 

As for the Soundcard: The soundblaster Z and Zx are pretty much identical. The Zx just has slightly better capacitors, thats it. The DAC, and the Amp are worse than that of a ZxR, also worse of a Phoebus.

 

However, for mainly gaming, the Soundblaster Z might also be a solid choice, if you want to stay cheap.

 

MY opinion here: The Headphone is responsible for at least 70-90% of the Soundquality. the REST comes from the DAC/AMP. So, AKG K7xx + Soundblaster Z can be a good coice, thats not too pricy ;)

If you at some time think you need/want to try more, you can always order a phoebus or essence, and compare it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

if you want a better alternative, get Sound Blaster Omni and use its optical out with a better amp/dac .


This... is not a smart solution tbh. The soundbalster Omni costs money too, and will be ONLY decoration here. Thats the exact same case, as if you would take the money, and wipe your butt with that...

 

If you use its optical out, to get into another DAC, why dont you just use THIS DAC directly via USB?

If you use optical out, the omni would do NOTHING to the sound. It will just take the digital sound it receives from the System, and gives it away without doing Anything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

if you want a better alternative, get Sound Blaster Omni and use its optical out with a better amp/dac .

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordchan View Post
 

Thank you.

 

I will look on these two. Thank you :)






And btw. If i decide to go  for the k701   or the q model or even the k712. Will i notice a big improvement  from my Sennheiser pc 360?


Well... This is very difficult to Answer. Acoustical sensations for YOU might be very difficult to someone else.

There might be people who claim to hear a BIIIG difference in quality between a Phoebus and a Essence. Just as there are people, who hear almost zero difference between those.

 

Or with headphones, some people will say, between the DT 880 and T90 are worlds apart. And others, who say its just slightly better.

 

Everyone has its own definitions about how big a difference is for yourself.

 

If you want to ask about competetive gaming, you might read this Thread/guide, which i personally find pretty interesting: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added

It claims, the PC 360 is pretty good in competetive (soundstage, localisation of soundeffects etc), and not far behind a K701.

In german forums, i saw alot users switch from a PC 360 to something like a DT 880 or DT 990 Pro, and for them it was already a big difference in overall soundquality and gaming.

 

You will really just have to try it out for yourself.

 

Small tip: Your brain needs time to get used to something new (well not only yours of course, everyones hehe). Dont judge form the first 2 minutes. When you buy one, or even more headphones, try using it for at least 1-2 days, maybe even some more days. Give your brain time to get used to the new sound, and the new informations. And THEN use the PC 360 again. Thats, how you will notice the differences much more clearly.


Edited by Darkseth - 8/2/14 at 7:05am
post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

i have the Phoebus too, and can not confirm this.Its Pricerange is (at least germany. 110€ Phoebus solo, 130€ phoebus, 155 Essence STX) just exactly right for it beeing a very good Choice. Sound is just a nuance worse than the STX (and tonality more neutral), has more features, and a better driver (the driver interface is more intuitive, and you can switch between speakers/headphones with less clicks).

I have used a DT 880 600 Ohm with a Yulong u100 (which is considered slightly ABOVE a Essence STX, and i have not heared a difference between the Yulong u100 and a Phoebus - Thats why i switched to the phoebus, since it replaced the Yulong for headphones, and also my DX for speakers, making it a better overall choice for me. It also has zero problems driving my T90 to the fullest.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying Phoebus is a bad choice all I said was it is just an average product. may be you have a different opinion. but if you see the hardocp, OC3D  reviews, anyone can confirm my impressions on Phoebus. Phoebus is only slightly better than DSX in terms of sound quality.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

As for the Soundcard: The soundblaster Z and Zx are pretty much identical. The Zx just has slightly better capacitors, thats it. The DAC, and the Amp are worse than that of a ZxR, also worse of a Phoebus.

 

 

 

in competitive gaming it's not only about sound quality it's mainly about your preferred DSP algorithem. some might prefer DHV4 or Dolby headphone or CMSS3d or SBX suround. it's a up to each individual to chose their preferred DSP algorithm.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 


This... is not a smart solution tbh. The soundbalster Omni costs money too, and will be ONLY decoration here. Thats the exact same case, as if you would take the money, and wipe your butt with that...

 

If you use its optical out, to get into another DAC, why dont you just use THIS DAC directly via USB?

If you use optical out, the omni would do NOTHING to the sound. It will just take the digital sound it receives from the System, and gives it away without doing Anything.

 

 

 

its not a decoration or anything, its about outputting DSP signal (SBX) via optical out. so that way you can process the dsp signal while using a better amp/dac (if you are not happy with the Omni's amp/dac)

 

P.S: or if you want to try Dolby headphone, using DG with its optical out (with a better amp/dac) is a good cheap option.. and SB X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro is another good alternative if you want SBX surround .


Edited by appsmarsterx - 8/2/14 at 9:09am
post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

I'm not saying Phoebus is a bad choice all I said was it is just an average product. may be you have a different opinion. but if you see the hardocp, OC3D  reviews, anyone can confirm my impressions on Phoebus. Phoebus is only slightly better than DSX in terms of sound quality.

So, its worse than a DX / D2X in Soundquality? From Reviews i saw, the Essence is just slightly (or even less, more "nuance") better than the Phoebus...

From MY ears, even a 200 bucks Yulong u100 is just "slightly" better than even my 4 year old cheap Realtek ALC 888 Soundchip... (tested with a DT 880 600 Ohm. Not including the immense difference in Output power, of course). Thats, why i was pretty disappointed having spend much money, because alot people were saying "oooh do that, you need sooooo much power, the sound quality is in a different world blabla". In fact its not... The difference was just... small. And between my Yulong u100 and a Xonar DX (headphones not in the back, but via Frontpanel) was almost zero.. max 1-2% soundquality difference, not more.

Thats also, why in my opinion, DAC/AMP solutions for more than 200€~ are NOT worth for the Soundquality, but more for the features, connectivity, haptic, quality etc in first place ^^

 

What exactly does that show us? Pretty much what i have claimed a few times arleady in several Threads: The Source makes mostly just little difference to the overall soundquality, as the Headphone is responsible for at least 70-90% of the overall Soundquality of the technical chain.

This claim has been prooven to ME already from my whole experience with a few speakers, soundcards, and headphones.

The most important thing about the DAC/AMP is pretty much, that its not crap. if its not, the differences are.. just pretty small.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Post
 

in competitive gaming it's not only about sound quality it's mainly about your preferred DSP algorithem. some might prefer DHV4 or Dolby headphone or CMSS3d or SBX suround. it's a up to each individual to chose their preferred DSP algorithm.

Fully agreed.

But dont think, that you can only game with these dsp algorithms. the vast majority of users, who use good headphones for gaming, find the normal true stereo mode much better for competetive gaming, then these DSP algorithms (at least.. in several German forums i am active in). Including myself. Each of these "7.1 surround simulations" uses its specific average algorithms for this. But every head is different. They can't possibly work for everyone. Thats also, why people buy and use the 900€ Beyerdynamic Headzone station, or even more expensive DSP algorithm solutions. Because they ARE superior to those cheap softwares from asus/creative/razer - Because you can chose your own parameters.

I am also not using them. Dolbi Headphone from my old DX didnt do anything for me. It just produced a "hall" effect The pure localisation was just the same. sometimes even worse.

Now with the Phoebus, all 3 DSPs are the same. doesnt help. Xear 3D i tried, used even the speaker-test thingy, and front sounded EXACTLY like rear. also the direction it came from was the same.. like the upper middle.~

DH4V sounded the best to me.. But also here, the pure positional thingy was NOT improved. it sounded just more extendet, but i couldnt locate any better.

In my experience: On some they work well, on most they don't. And they dont have to, as you can locate just fine with Stereo.

So, as long someone doesnt tell me, that he exactly know, that the DSP algorithm xyz works best for him, i will always suggest to use stereo without any cheap effects.

 

Even so.. i personally found Razer Surround to be one of the best. Reason: You can calibrate some parameters to your head, and it doesn't just produce some hall effects like Dolbi Headphone. And razer surround works with ANY dac/amp/soundcard.

 

Btw, you also have to differ here.. Does it only sounds "wider", as in "soundstage is artificial widened", or does it REALLY improve the positional que for your ears? I think, alot people are mistaken one for the other. Thats why alot use cheap 7.1 headsets, and like the effect, even if it might not work correctly for them. Just because of the widened effect.

 

I think, thats similar to comparing 2 different soundcards, where 1 has a "more bass". And people mistaken "more bass" for "sounds better"

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by appsmarsterx View Postits not a decoration or anything, its about outputting DSP signal (SBX) via optical out. so that way you can process the dsp signal while using a better amp/dac (if you are not happy with the Omni's amp/dac)

 

P.S: or if you want to try Dolby headphone, using DG with its optical out (with a better amp/dac) is a good cheap option.. and SB X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro is another good alternative if you want SBX surround .

But thats the only case... Its still a complete waste, since for the combined price you can probably just get a Soundblaster ZxR~.

There is only 1 single case, i can imagine this beeing a good choice:

1. You have no space for internal soundcards

2. you absolutely NEED/WANT specifically SBX from the soundblaster series

3. the Omni is not good enough

 

I would say, this sounds pretty... rare. As the least amount of people really tried all the different Simulations.

However... I admit, i can see the usage of this. Didn't really thought about the dsp simulation in this case (i personally ignore the DSPs as they have no use for me)


Edited by Darkseth - 8/2/14 at 10:59am
post #23 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

i have the Phoebus too, and can not confirm this.Its Pricerange is (at least germany. 110€ Phoebus solo, 130€ phoebus, 155 Essence STX) just exactly right for it beeing a very good Choice. Sound is just a nuance worse than the STX (and tonality more neutral), has more features, and a better driver (the driver interface is more intuitive, and you can switch between speakers/headphones with less clicks).

I have used a DT 880 600 Ohm with a Yulong u100 (which is considered slightly ABOVE a Essence STX, and i have not heared a difference between the Yulong u100 and a Phoebus - Thats why i switched to the phoebus, since it replaced the Yulong for headphones, and also my DX for speakers, making it a better overall choice for me. It also has zero problems driving my T90 to the fullest.

 

Hmm that depends.

What are your prices there of those products? Might make it easier to make a choice then.

Here its 200€ for AKG K701/Q701/K702 (also depending on prices between those.. Q701 has slightly more bass, and makes a more fun version of the K701. The K702 has a removeable cable. if its just 30 bucks more, take it over the K701), 350-400€ for the T90, 350€ for the AKG K712 Pro.

 

I have tried the K701 with a DT 880 600 Ohm, and chose the DT 880 for me. They sounded veeery similar, DT 880 just more kickbass. but overall at the same level.

K701 went back to the store.. Half year later i ordered a T90. It was NOT "alot" better than the DT 880. I would say.. depending on the musik it maybe sounded... 10-25% better? something like that... But it DID do like everything better (for MY ears), thats why i kept it.

But i kinda do think, no matter if you chose a K7xx for 200 bucks, or a T90 for 400-500 bucks... i dont really believe, that you will be better in gaming with the T90. Games are sadly not that "audiophile" enough to make such a difference. If its JUST for gaming, i will suggest, stay at the 200-250 bucks price range, like AKG Q701~ for example. It does its job here pretty well.

Headphones of the level of a T90 might please you more, if you enjoy Music alot.

 

Other than that the only thing i can suggest you, try both price ranges out, how they perform in games for YOUR ears. Like i said, the only reason i kept the T90 despite its higher price is, that it did EVERYTHIGN better, even if it was just slightly. Slightly better and more bass, slightly more resolution, slightly more room in cups for my ears, alot easier to drive. That together with the fact, that you can keep a Beyerdynamic for decades and still be 100% sure, if anything is wrong, you get the support needed, to make it as good as new again.

 

As for the Soundcard: The soundblaster Z and Zx are pretty much identical. The Zx just has slightly better capacitors, thats it. The DAC, and the Amp are worse than that of a ZxR, also worse of a Phoebus.

 

However, for mainly gaming, the Soundblaster Z might also be a solid choice, if you want to stay cheap.

 

MY opinion here: The Headphone is responsible for at least 70-90% of the Soundquality. the REST comes from the DAC/AMP. So, AKG K7xx + Soundblaster Z can be a good coice, thats not too pricy ;)

If you at some time think you need/want to try more, you can always order a phoebus or essence, and compare it.

 


This... is not a smart solution tbh. The soundbalster Omni costs money too, and will be ONLY decoration here. Thats the exact same case, as if you would take the money, and wipe your butt with that...

 

If you use its optical out, to get into another DAC, why dont you just use THIS DAC directly via USB?

If you use optical out, the omni would do NOTHING to the sound. It will just take the digital sound it receives from the System, and gives it away without doing Anything.

 

 

 


Well... This is very difficult to Answer. Acoustical sensations for YOU might be very difficult to someone else.

There might be people who claim to hear a BIIIG difference in quality between a Phoebus and a Essence. Just as there are people, who hear almost zero difference between those.

 

Or with headphones, some people will say, between the DT 880 and T90 are worlds apart. And others, who say its just slightly better.

 

Everyone has its own definitions about how big a difference is for yourself.

 

If you want to ask about competetive gaming, you might read this Thread/guide, which i personally find pretty interesting: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added

It claims, the PC 360 is pretty good in competetive (soundstage, localisation of soundeffects etc), and not far behind a K701.

In german forums, i saw alot users switch from a PC 360 to something like a DT 880 or DT 990 Pro, and for them it was already a big difference in overall soundquality and gaming.

 

You will really just have to try it out for yourself.

 

Small tip: Your brain needs time to get used to something new (well not only yours of course, everyones hehe). Dont judge form the first 2 minutes. When you buy one, or even more headphones, try using it for at least 1-2 days, maybe even some more days. Give your brain time to get used to the new sound, and the new informations. And THEN use the PC 360 again. Thats, how you will notice the differences much more clearly.

holy ***** ! thank you. This was useful. Everything that differs between k701 and k702 is the detachable cable right? If so it doesn't really matter wich one i take? BUt maybe its good with the detatchable cable yeah.. 

 

I can get the q701 pretty cheap. the k model a little more expensive and the k702 is the cheapest one of these three.

 

I'am leaning more towards the q701 i think. I just read that the q701 got a detatchable cables aswell

 


Edited by Swordchan - 8/2/14 at 11:07am
post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordchan View Post
 

holy ***** ! thank you. This was useful. Everything that differs between k701 and k702 is the detachable cable right? If so it doesn't really matter wich one i take? BUt maybe its good with the detatchable cable yeah.. 

 

I can get the q701 pretty cheap. the k model a little more expensive and the k702 is the cheapest one of these three.

 

I'am leaning more towards the q701 i think. I just read that the q701 got a detatchable cables aswell

 


Correct, the K701 and K702 are identical, just the cable is detachable. Depending on price differences, i would get the K702 here (in germany, the K701 costs 189, the K702 211).

The Q701 however is some kind of a special edition, with a few dB more bass, so its more fun (the K701 can be quite boring, depending what you listen to, and if you use an analytical soundcard/dac/amp).

Maybe this Frequency responses might help you here:

 

The Q701 is cheaper than the K701? It costs here around 230€, so its even the most expensive one (available in white, green and black)

If thats the case, i would toally go for the Q701 (which btw also has an detacheable cable ^^)

post #25 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 


Correct, the K701 and K702 are identical, just the cable is detachable. Depending on price differences, i would get the K702 here (in germany, the K701 costs 189, the K702 211).

The Q701 however is some kind of a special edition, with a few dB more bass, so its more fun (the K701 can be quite boring, depending what you listen to, and if you use an analytical soundcard/dac/amp).

Maybe this Frequency responses might help you here:

 

The Q701 is cheaper than the K701? It costs here around 230€, so its even the most expensive one (available in white, green and black)

If thats the case, i would toally go for the Q701 (which btw also has an detacheable cable ^^)

Yeah i ordered the Q701. there was only 1 left with that insane price ! :D 

I'd like to thank you for the help. 

 

You guys in this thread has learned me alot.

 

But now.. wich one would you go for. ZXR Or only the Z? Maybe i should just go for the Z and save alot of money  Z Is 100 Dollar meanwhile ZXR is 220 dollar.

post #26 of 37

Depends.. Is it ONLY gaming? Then the Z might be enough.

High fidelity music? The ZxR might sound better (still... YOU have to decide, if the difference is big enough for you to spend 120 dollar more). But for that you would have to order both, try them, and send one back D:

How much are the Phoebus or Essence STX?

 

Also, di you already have some experience about different Surround simulations of different soundcards?

 

Try watching this video by using your PC 360: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA

(And turn every "effects" off from your soundcard/realtek, so you use pure stereo mode)

Is any of those technologies noticable superior to your ears?

post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

So, its worse than a DX / D2X in Soundquality? From Reviews i saw, the Essence is just slightly (or even less, more "nuance") better than the Phoebus...

From MY ears, even a 200 bucks Yulong u100 is just "slightly" better than even my 4 year old cheap Realtek ALC 888 Soundchip... (tested with a DT 880 600 Ohm. Not including the immense difference in Output power, of course). Thats, why i was pretty disappointed having spend much money, because alot people were saying "oooh do that, you need sooooo much power, the sound quality is in a different world blabla". In fact its not... The difference was just... small. And between my Yulong u100 and a Xonar DX (headphones not in the back, but via Frontpanel) was almost zero.. max 1-2% soundquality difference, not more.

Thats also, why in my opinion, DAC/AMP solutions for more than 200€~ are NOT worth for the Soundquality, but more for the features, connectivity, haptic, quality etc in first place ^^

 

What exactly does that show us? Pretty much what i have claimed a few times arleady in several Threads: The Source makes mostly just little difference to the overall soundquality, as the Headphone is responsible for at least 70-90% of the overall Soundquality of the technical chain.

This claim has been prooven to ME already from my whole experience with a few speakers, soundcards, and headphones.

The most important thing about the DAC/AMP is pretty much, that its not crap. if its not, the differences are.. just pretty small.

 

 

this is very debatable topic :)  I'm not gonna go much in to this since this is just a recommendation thread.  personally I agree with you. I'm not big fan of spending big money for amp/dacs too. I'm currently using E17 and I'm more than happy with it since I tried more expensive products like Essense One too.. but I'm not gonna criticize the people who spend big money for their amp/dacs. may be they hear better than you and me. this should be more open discussion here on head-fi, but I don't think this is the right thread to start that discussion.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post

 

But dont think, that you can only game with these dsp algorithms. the vast majority of users, who use good headphones for gaming, find the normal true stereo mode much better for competetive gaming, then these DSP algorithms (at least.. in several German forums i am active in). Including myself. Each of these "7.1 surround simulations" uses its specific average algorithms for this. But every head is different. They can't possibly work for everyone. Thats also, why people buy and use the 900€ Beyerdynamic Headzone station, or even more expensive DSP algorithm solutions. Because they ARE superior to those cheap softwares from asus/creative/razer - Because you can chose your own parameters.

I am also not using them. Dolbi Headphone from my old DX didnt do anything for me. It just produced a "hall" effect The pure localisation was just the same. sometimes even worse.

Now with the Phoebus, all 3 DSPs are the same. doesnt help. Xear 3D i tried, used even the speaker-test thingy, and front sounded EXACTLY like rear. also the direction it came from was the same.. like the upper middle.~

DH4V sounded the best to me.. But also here, the pure positional thingy was NOT improved. it sounded just more extendet, but i couldnt locate any better.

In my experience: On some they work well, on most they don't. And they dont have to, as you can locate just fine with Stereo.

So, as long someone doesnt tell me, that he exactly know, that the DSP algorithm xyz works best for him, i will always suggest to use stereo without any cheap effects.

 

Even so.. i personally found Razer Surround to be one of the best. Reason: You can calibrate some parameters to your head, and it doesn't just produce some hall effects like Dolbi Headphone. And razer surround works with ANY dac/amp/soundcard.

 

 

I'm not sure about the exact statistics, but I don't think lots of people including MLE would agree with you on your opinion on DSP algorithms since he also prefers using them to get rear sound clues over stereo mode .. I haven't tried Razor surround but far as I know it also has very mixed impressions. I know some people like to use just stereo mode for competitive gaming but this is also another debatable topic :)

post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordchan View Post
 

Yeah i ordered the Q701. there was only 1 left with that insane price ! :D 

I'd like to thank you for the help. 

 

You guys in this thread has learned me alot.

 

But now.. wich one would you go for. ZXR Or only the Z? Maybe i should just go for the Z and save alot of money  Z Is 100 Dollar meanwhile ZXR is 220 dollar.

 

I would say to go for the cheaper SB-Z for now.

Later on when your ready to spend $300, get an Audio-GD NFB-15 external DAC/amp.

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

post #29 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

Depends.. Is it ONLY gaming? Then the Z might be enough.

High fidelity music? The ZxR might sound better (still... YOU have to decide, if the difference is big enough for you to spend 120 dollar more). But for that you would have to order both, try them, and send one back D:

How much are the Phoebus or Essence STX?

 

Also, di you already have some experience about different Surround simulations of different soundcards?

 

Try watching this video by using your PC 360: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA

(And turn every "effects" off from your soundcard/realtek, so you use pure stereo mode)

Is any of those technologies noticable superior to your ears?

Allround usage. Mostly gaming. Movies music. . 
I guess the Z will be enough ^^  
The Phoebus is much cheaper than the ZxR in my country. Its *ok priced* So is the  Asus stx :d

I can't teset that sound thingy atm. But i will sure do when i get home.

post #30 of 37

Well.. yeah, then i would also say, you can't go much wrong with a Soundblaster Z bulk~ ^^ Will make a nice start.

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