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SONY NWZ-A10 Series - Page 243

post #3631 of 7310
Well I don't know how many portable amp/usb-optical dac 32bit 384khz dsd128 are avalable for under 500£ with both single and "balanced" outputs...
post #3632 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by godbluff View Post
 

[snip]

 

I think its pretty poor and can't think of any excuse why the line out is so weak

 

Conclusion: the WM port is for charging/synching only or, with right cable used as a digital out In which case the Sony is just a storage device with screen. Can't companies like Fiio stop selling their line out cables for Sonys. Going back to the A818 (and even my 25 year old Discman !!) the lineouts have never matched their headphone output.

 

[snip]

 

 

 

Well said.  This can't be overemphasized. A 0.245V rms Line Out is ridiculously weak.

post #3633 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godbluff View Post
 

[snip]

 

I think its pretty poor and can't think of any excuse why the line out is so weak

 

Conclusion: the WM port is for charging/synching only or, with right cable used as a digital out In which case the Sony is just a storage device with screen. Can't companies like Fiio stop selling their line out cables for Sonys. Going back to the A818 (and even my 25 year old Discman !!) the lineouts have never matched their headphone output.

 

[snip]

 

 

 

Well said.  This can't be overemphasized. A 0.245V rms Line Out is ridiculously weak.


well it's logical not to expect 2V on portable devices, but I have to admit it's the weakest LO I know of ^_^ .  even a 1V LO would sound twice as loud, so you guys with big headphones must carefully pick an amp with the right gain value to avoid bad surprises.

 

for me with only IEMs it doesn't really matter, on the contrary it could be a good point with some amps. I could use a pico amp when I had to get into channel imbalance with the X3. but that's clearly a special case. for me as long as the noise floor is far enough, I'm good. that's my luck here.

post #3634 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

Well said.  This can't be overemphasized. A 0.245V rms Line Out is ridiculously weak.


I think Sony really made an error here. Here is what I'm sure they were thinking. Most users aren't going to care about digital out performance or even use an external amp, so why not provide stellar battery life? True, but they still could have provided a better implementation on the LO for those few who do care as they would A) have been expecting the hit on the battery and B) not cared anyway as the superior performance would have been enough to justify the battery life hit. That is how I see it anyway. 

post #3635 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by godbluff View Post
 

On another note,

 

I've just receive this months HiFi Choice magazine testing the A15.

 

It got 5 stars for sq and 4 1/2 stars overall 

 

Their conclusions: 

 

'LIKE: Terrific sound quality, diminiuive size

 

DISLIKE: No DSD playback, non-durable build quality

 

WE SAY: A nicely priced pocket-sized package for enjoying hi-res audio on the go.'

 

They said 'it need a pair of headphones that have enough dynamic range to extract every last drop out of its diminutive proportions'

 

Hope I haven't breached any copyrights by quoting this !


any ways who needs DSD is pire 1-bit noise shaped some how and moved tot he ultrasonics, wikipedia quotes the DSD is capable of 120dB and 50KHz.. for 2Khz less i won't whine and stay with 24/96

post #3636 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

Well said.  This can't be overemphasized. A 0.245V rms Line Out is ridiculously weak.


I think Sony really made an error here. Here is what I'm sure they were thinking. Most users aren't going to care about digital out performance or even use an external amp, so why not provide stellar battery life? True, but they still could have provided a better implementation on the LO for those few who do care as they would A) have been expecting the hit on the battery and B) not cared anyway as the superior performance would have been enough to justify the battery life hit. That is how I see it anyway. 


just to be fair, there has been some whining about android phones at a time that would reject a USB device if it consumed over a certain amount of power(even thought it could perfectly work with it) for the only sake of being able to claim better battery specs under any circumstances.

and ipods ended up being one of the most sold DAPs around the world when they started exactly like that, with a super weak output compared to every other products. to the point that people started building gears for the ipod. headphones/amps etc. and when the FIIO X3 came up with 1.7V as the output, it clipped some of the amps because they were built to deal with crappy ipod-like sources. we live in a crazy world. maybe sony will launch a new trend and 0.2v will become the standard for a LO ... :confused_face:

 

TBH I never expected good specs out of a small device, because else portable stuff would be as good as desktop gears, and we all know it isn't a reality just yet (or it costs a lot more than the desktop equivalent). so when the A10 was announced and claimed to be the smallest highres device on the market, I honestly expected specs much worst than what we ended up with. still I bought it instantly because ... hey!!!! a sony with a µSD!!!!!!!!! can't tell you how many years I've been waiting for that and had actually given up. I could have made an April fool announcement of it last year and people would have found this hilarious. :deadhorse:

post #3637 of 7310

what castleofargh says seems logical, when i Had my Fiio x3 connected to my bose sound dock via LO, i had to turn the volume just sa tiny bit but now witht he walkman i have to cranck it a bit more than the fiio

post #3638 of 7310

Well, I backed out of the ZX2, gorgeous, but just too underpowered for my current needs and so big that adding an amp means it isn't pocket portable which is what I want. I settled on a compromise and picked up a PHA 3 to use with my A17. Still bulky, but closer to pocket portable. I still intend to get the ZX2, but I'll have to make some other things go first. Looking forward to the PHA 3 as I think it will be a great amp and DAC.

post #3639 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 

Well, I backed out of the ZX2, gorgeous, but just too underpowered for my current needs and so big that adding an amp means it isn't pocket portable which is what I want. I settled on a compromise and picked up a PHA 3 to use with my A17. Still bulky, but closer to pocket portable. I still intend to get the ZX2, but I'll have to make some other things go first. Looking forward to the PHA 3 as I think it will be a great amp and DAC.

yes better wait and try your A17 with the PHA-3.. Looking at pics of the oppo  HA-2 it seems as big as an iphone 6 plus but in thickness is pocket friendly so next payday (i get paid every 15 days,  Days 15 and 30 or 31 of the  months) i will be finally saving for it in two more pay checks i will get the amount in pesos for the 350 US price tag (incl shipping)

post #3640 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerelmx1986 View Post

yes better wait and try your A17 with the PHA-3.. Looking at pics of the oppo  HA-2 it seems as big as an iphone 6 plus but in thickness is pocket friendly so next payday (i get paid every 15 days,  Days 15 and 30 or 31 of the  months) i will be finally saving for it in two more pay checks i will get the amount in pesos for the 350 US price tag (incl shipping)

What about Februarys ? Only get half your wages ?
post #3641 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by godbluff View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerelmx1986 View Post

yes better wait and try your A17 with the PHA-3.. Looking at pics of the oppo  HA-2 it seems as big as an iphone 6 plus but in thickness is pocket friendly so next payday (i get paid every 15 days,  Days 15 and 30 or 31 of the  months) i will be finally saving for it in two more pay checks i will get the amount in pesos for the 350 US price tag (incl shipping)

What about Februarys ? Only get half your wages ?


hehe good one :biggrin: day 28 or if it's weekend (eg sat or sun) gets moved to fridays

post #3642 of 7310

Did an interesting test with my VAIO and A17 with my hi-res headphones (1R, H3) after some one posted a tone generating page, sadly is the free version so only 44.1Khz sampling rate and up to 22.05Khz

 

so... what i was able to hear seems odd due to my premature birth situation blind totally in left eye , and left ear is fine, right eye is fine in some degree but right ear is impaired

 

Here are results

 

VAIO laptop 2014 Intel HD audio driver

 

MDR-1R reached to 10KHz     XBA-H3 to 11KHz (faint biip), 10Khz cleear (BA drivers perhaps)

 

Sony WALKMAN NWZ-A17 (Mexican (international) version)

 

DSEE HX OFF--> MDR-1R 10 KHZ,      XBA-H3, 14KHZ (faint)

 

 

DSEE HX ON--> MDR-1R 17KHZ (actually got up to 19Khz very very very faint),     XBA-H3 21KHZ clearly heard it

 

that is all UNAMPED gear

 

i'm 28 yrs old,

post #3643 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerelmx1986 View Post
 

Did an interesting test with my VAIO and A17 with my hi-res headphones (1R, H3) after some one posted a tone generating page, sadly is the free version so only 44.1Khz sampling rate and up to 22.05Khz

 

so... what i was able to hear seems odd due to my premature birth situation blind totally in left eye , and left ear is fine, right eye is fine in some degree but right ear is impaired

 

Here are results

 

VAIO laptop 2014 Intel HD audio driver

 

MDR-1R reached to 10KHz     XBA-H3 to 11KHz (faint biip), 10Khz cleear (BA drivers perhaps)

 

Sony WALKMAN NWZ-A17 (Mexican (international) version)

 

DSEE HX OFF--> MDR-1R 10 KHZ,      XBA-H3, 14KHZ (faint)

 

 

DSEE HX ON--> MDR-1R 17KHZ (actually got up to 19Khz very very very faint),     XBA-H3 21KHZ clearly heard it

 

that is all UNAMPED gear

 

i'm 28 yrs old,


first off, you need to look at what your headphone and IEM can do before venturing into this stuff. http://en.goldenears.net/26285 (don't know for the mdr).

and DSEE adds noise to whatever sound you have on the track, it's not just upsampling, it's a DSP so it transforms the signal. so obviously you're going to hear something, just not the tone you're testing. it's not even a test, that one is just plain wrong ^_^.

one thing you can try if you have an ok input on your computer and the proper cable, is to record the sound out of your different outputs (loop the soundcard, or plug the sony HO). that way you can simply look at a spectrogram of sort when playing the recording and see effectively if the signal stayed where it should. once the source is cleared, you can start doing stuff to test the headphone and eventually your ears.

 

and I warned on the other topic, but I'll do it again here, if some of you are curious about this kind of stuff, remember not to increase the volume once you're into super low or super high frequencies. you could damage both your gear and your ears. it's not because you don't hear it that there is no sound!!!!

post #3644 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerelmx1986 View Post
 

Did an interesting test with my VAIO and A17 with my hi-res headphones (1R, H3) after some one posted a tone generating page, sadly is the free version so only 44.1Khz sampling rate and up to 22.05Khz

 

so... what i was able to hear seems odd due to my premature birth situation blind totally in left eye , and left ear is fine, right eye is fine in some degree but right ear is impaired

 

Here are results

 

VAIO laptop 2014 Intel HD audio driver

 

MDR-1R reached to 10KHz     XBA-H3 to 11KHz (faint biip), 10Khz cleear (BA drivers perhaps)

 

Sony WALKMAN NWZ-A17 (Mexican (international) version)

 

DSEE HX OFF--> MDR-1R 10 KHZ,      XBA-H3, 14KHZ (faint)

 

 

DSEE HX ON--> MDR-1R 17KHZ (actually got up to 19Khz very very very faint),     XBA-H3 21KHZ clearly heard it

 

that is all UNAMPED gear

 

i'm 28 yrs old,


first off, you need to look at what your headphone and IEM can do before venturing into this stuff. http://en.goldenears.net/26285 (don't know for the mdr).

and DSEE adds noise to whatever sound you have on the track, it's not just upsampling, it's a DSP so it transforms the signal. so obviously you're going to hear something, just not the tone you're testing. it's not even a test, that one is just plain wrong ^_^.

one thing you can try if you have an ok input on your computer and the proper cable, is to record the sound out of your different outputs (loop the soundcard, or plug the sony HO). that way you can simply look at a spectrogram of sort when playing the recording and see effectively if the signal stayed where it should. once the source is cleared, you can start doing stuff to test the headphone and eventually your ears.

 

and I warned on the other topic, but I'll do it again here, if some of you are curious about this kind of stuff, remember not to increase the volume once you're into super low or super high frequencies. you could damage both your gear and your ears. it's not because you don't hear it that there is no sound!!!!


Yeah but now the million dollar question, why i can distinguish differences between a CD vs an HD FLAC (being very concentrated into it) and why i see the walkman has better SQ tha the fiio x3?

post #3645 of 7310
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post


 

think of it like plugging a desktop lamp with a 15W light bulb into a wall, then unplugging it and plugging a 300W hair dryer instead(random example from a bald guy ^_^). both will work just fine right? the electric circuit is closed by the stuff you plug in it and that's what limits the current in the circuit. so as long as you use the right voltage (and USB stuff all want and use 5V), you're golden.

 if you plug something that will let only 500mA pass, then that's what you will get. worst case scenario(dramatic hollywood suspense music), your charger is actually the limiting factor instead of it being the walkman, and your walkman will charge slower. so go ahead and use whatever is convenient for you.

 



Thank you man, that was helpful.
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