SONY NWZ-A10 Series
Sep 14, 2014 at 7:25 AM Post #121 of 7,541
   
That's a narrative I've heard a thousand times, I disagree with it and I'm really a little tired of it, I don't think it's 100% true.
 
There are a LOT of former Sony employees in Japan writing books and spouting sound bytes talking about how good it used to be and how crap Sony is today. But my opinion is that most of them are just bitter.
 
This is an analogy I once used in another thread, if you specialized in the mechanical decks of a cassette player, there's no room for you in the creation of an MP3 player. Of course at least some of them would've had to be let go. If I were in that situation and I were let go? Of course I'd take every opportunity to speak badly of the corporation who laid me off with no promise of a secure senile life.
 
When these people are not laid off they're often inside the company resisting Howard Stringer or now Kaz Hirai, because they don't trust the guys who started out in the entertainment divisions. What's to say it's not them hindering Sony's progress and competitive abilities?
 
And in spite of all this internal resistance, Sony has very much rolled with the punches of the market, even though they often botch the execution. They know they need some sort of a network walkman; they know they need smartphones; they'll know they need to do this or that before Apple jumps into the market. Other Japanese majors like Panasonic and Sharp are less capable in this way, and ends up abandoning a lot of consumer electronic categories. If we say these issues are inherent with the Japanese in some way, then Sony is the least affected of them all.
 
Also I think too few people remember that, back in the day, Sony had very little audiophile cred compared to some other Japanese brands. yes they had the ES, the Walkman DD, but which Japanese brand didn't have a hi-end audio sub-brand in the 80s? So I give them credit for doing so much the past few years to focus on sound quality, even though Apple pretty much forced them into this by taking all of Sony's old yuppie customers. Considering this, the balanced PHA-3 is a pretty big deal.
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The same revisionist, over-inflated expectation that people heaped on Sony is now severely threatening Apple. We'll see how that goes...

Totally agree with you very insightful observation..sony still has some smart people working for them but sometimes they do things half heartedly at first ..and then they watch the trends then make several revisions of the same product ...They still stay relevant because they have the money to chuck the products out and see which ones stick just like samsung do...Sony is probably the only one competing with apple in the mp3 market now .
I wish they had made a revision of the x series walkman which was crippled by the atrocious software on it, that would have been a huge seller if they had overhauled the UI..
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 9:22 AM Post #122 of 7,541
hey blame the documentary I saw, I'm innocent. probably gullible, but innocent.
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interesting read
 
 
 
 
Quote:
 
Originally Posted by castleofargh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
maybe go look for android walkmans like the F866 instead if you want your own UI using another music player app

 
call me picky but i am a little irritated by the blue coloured bluetooth symbol which makes the UI inhomogenous to me. personally not needing bluetooth in here at all  i'd put that shortcut out of sight. besides that i wouldnt see a need in customizing here. really looking forward to the release, this being a dedicated music player not distracting you from it's essentials (e.g. with android apps).


oh I perfectly understand, I am very happy with some good old flash UI like on my old samsung YP-P3. movable icons, widgets and stuff, kind of a dumbed down fisher price version of android, but very much customizable.
I use an older version of firmware on the A865 simply to avoid the ********* media go icon, so I really feel you bro ^_^.
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 3:41 PM Post #123 of 7,541
IMO, Sony abandoning the VAIO computers was a grave mistake. For transferring files to a gadget one does need a laptop (for back up too), a music store and a dap itself,
Hmmm, still I don't think just because ZX1 was never released here they should label A10 as their first audiophile player. I'm pretty sure anyone who is interested in the A10 know it's not their first but I could be wrong.

 
This is true, but it seems that the A10 is not replacing the ZX1, but according to a german pdf for the player, the previous model stated was the F880, and I do not believe that was released in the US either.  Regardless, Sony's choice what they wish to market it as.
 
I agree, grave mistake, I've only owned vaios and am puzzled what I will buy in the future.  But I feel Sony will buy it back once it is profitable or they will need it (xperia brand can only go so far), I say 2-3 or 3-4 years tops and hopefully it will be back in Sony's hands.  Almost like they did with sony ericsson but again they owned part of it, so they just bought it out.
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 4:19 PM Post #125 of 7,541
What puzzles me is that the zx1 is available in late September on the the Canadian Sony site, but not the American site, and the A10 is available on the American site and not the Canadian site.  What gives lol?
Going all the way to Tokyo was also a great experience in that you could find walkmans in most electronic stores.  I chose the f886 over the zx1 because I just couldn't pull the trigger on the zx1.  (Lack of funds lol)  But with the advent of the a10 I think I made a good choice here.    
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 5:09 AM Post #126 of 7,541

Sony, the catch-up king


 
Sony's not making PCs any more. It recently announced it wouldn't be making new e-readers, either. The company's also taking a long hard look at the TV business that it dominated for decades. In the '90s, its TVs stood up alongside the Discman, Walkman and even that new games console that could play CDs. Sony was cool; it had cachet. But a narrow focus on proprietary technology and its slowness to adapt to the dizzying speed of consumer tech in the last two decades have taken their toll. While it's created a new department solely dedicated to making the next big thing, it remains to be seen if the company can bounce back from decades of failures.
The Walkman, the PlayStation, all those TVs, countless radios in increasingly smaller sizes, studio cameras and equipment, the compact disc and (possibly) AIBO, the robot dog. These are old success stories.
For decades, Sony practically defined high-end TVs, and they were everywhere. The Trinitron series even won an Emmy in the '70s. But success didn't last. Flat-screen TVs killed chunky CRT sets. Around 1992, companies like NEC and Hitachi, both Japanese rivals, became some of the earliest companies to manufacture bigger LCD displays with decent viewing quality. By 1996, Samsung had also figured out its own techniques for flat-screen TVs and by the end of 2007, LCD TVs were outselling CRTs globally.
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Sony was slow to adopt, confident in its then-popular Trinitron TVs. But by 1996, its patents on the design ran out, and cheaper competition emerged. Instead of moving into LCDs like other companies, Sony revealed its slightly flatter FD Trinitron series, which was unable to recoup the popularity of the original. In 2002, it finally launched its debut WEGA LCD TV, but by Christmas of 2004, despite a 5 percent increase in TV sales, it suffered a 75 percent plunge in profits. It's been an increasingly tough market ever since. In the last decade, Sony's TV arm has bled nearly KWD2.29 (KWD2.29 (KWD2.29 (KWD2.29 ($8)))) billion. The company, in its entirety, has also had a few rough years. Make that several rough years. Losses in 2013 totaled 128 billion yen, roughly KWD0.34 (KWD0.34 (KWD0.34 (KWD0.34 ($1.2)))) billion.
In 2007, Sony developed the first OLED TV: a tiny, (beautiful) 11-inch TV on an articulated arm, but the company ceased production in 2010 when it decided 3DTV was the next big thing. Not soon after, Korean rivals like LG and Samsung introduced 55-inch, actual TV-sized OLED screens that were deemed the future of television. And it happened again more recently with curved TV sets: LG and Samsung got there first and Sony came after.
Was the company unlucky? Nearsighted? Arrogant? Take its Blu-ray disc business. According to Sony's own news alert earlier this year: "Demand for physical media contracting faster than anticipated" led to the company reducing its estimates even further. The alert later states, "The fair value of the entire disc manufacturing business also has decreased." Sony totaled this loss at an incredible 25 billion yen. Blu-ray is a Sony invention -- the latest, though not the last, proprietary technology it's tried to sell. The idea was to keep us, its dear customers, close to where we were spending our money -- on media, on content, on software. This myopic aim is partly to blame for why it's been slow to deliver on new trends: It's been trying to get value for money from its physical media inventions.
Tech's history books paint an unflattering picture in that regard: Sony's Memory Stick was beaten by USB and SD card storage; Betamax was bested by VHS; and while Blu-ray won the battle with HD-DVD, it looks like it's losing the real war with downloadable, streamable content. We don't need discs so much -- something that also hit the MiniDisc. Remember ATRAC? Sony's heavy-handed DRM music format? The other options won out. Sony likes control and relinquishing it -- or changing with the times -- has been a big problem. (Interestingly, after the failure of Betamax, Sony turned its knowledge there into crafting smaller videocassette recorders, adding cameras and ushering in the age of camcorders.)
Maybe the recent lack of a hit, and weak business performance has been due to arrogance. The company's latest CFO, Kenichiro Yoshida, put it surprisingly bluntly earlier this year: Sony has been very slow to respond to consumer trends. But thanks to previously strong movie and financial arms (Sony sells health insurance in Japan), the poor performance of its electronics company had been buffered. That was until its movie business suddenly turned sour last year and a very harsh spotlight was thrust upon its electronics arm. Yoshida added that to strengthen the company, it was cutting down on pricey (prime) Tokyo real estate, likely to be seen as another dent to Sony's battered pride.
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Another sell-off, its VAIO PC business, was an "agonizing decision," according to CEO Kaz Hirai. The machines even caught Steve Jobs' eye at one point. Both its laptops and desktop PCs commanded premium prices, but underneath those classy exteriors were the same components you'd find in far cheaper machines. In the last few years, however, it hasn't even been a price issue: PCs simply aren't selling as well as they did 15 years ago. They've been taken over by the smartphone, by the tablet -- and unfortunately for Sony, these now-ubiquitous gadgets aren't Xperias. They're iPads; they're Galaxy S devices. While it was the fourth largest mobile phone maker in 2009, by 2010 it had dropped to sixth, and its smartphone sales dropped last quarter.
Many believe Sony should be right up there, battling for smartphone dominance with Samsung and Apple, but it isn't. It may have defined big-screen TVs and the personal music player pre-iPod, but it's struggled to grab another product category and dominate it like it did before.
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Sony was an e-reader pioneer, however. The company launched the first e-ink reader, the LIBRIe (above), in 2004, but hamstrung it with an e-book rental system. The Sony Reader series followed in 2006, but a year later, Kindle arrived and Sony's limited book selection (along with Amazon's sales strength) decided the rest. It helped that Amazon continued to refine (and discount) its e-readers. Backlit displays arrived inside Kindles in the second half of 2012, but Sony's latest (and last) e-reader -- announced a year after -- still didn't have one. Sony was slow. Again. Kindle now dominates e-readers. According to the Codex Group, in the US it's responsible for around 64 percent of all e-book sales.
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And now, Project Morpheus, a VR headset, arguably the coolest Sony hardware we know about isn't coming from its electronics arm, but from Sony Computer Entertainment. SCE has somehow managed to hold onto that Sony magic: The PS4 is off to a very good start, after the messy launch of its predecessor. Perhaps SCE maintains enough distance from the rest of the Sony corporation that it can react and develop faster -- whatever it's doing, it's working.
Sony's huge successes in the preceding decades have thrown the weight of expectations onto whatever it does. "The difficulty Sony faced was that we could not forget the success of the past," Sony's former CEO Nobuyuki Idei explained in Sea-Jin Chang's Sony Vs. Samsung. "Sony's success was based on the tape format, CD format and transistor TV." In recent shareholder meetings, investors cried out for another hit and complained that it's another Japanese company, SoftBank, that's making headlines by selling humanoid robots, not Sony.
Can it get back on track? The company wants to show that it's at least trying. Earlier this year, Sony announced a new business-development department, aimed at tapping into the creativity and ideas of its youngest employees and people with ideas for The Next Big Thing. Its head, who apparently has a degree of autonomy outside Sony's chain of command, insists there are still a lot of passionate people inside the once-dominant Japanese multinational. However, the onus will be on delivering new businesses and products that people want -- definitive ideas that beat the competition -- if it's to ever return to its influential peak. Then, it'll have to keep doing it.
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 7:43 AM Post #127 of 7,541
I found that article to be somewhat inaccurate due to its attempt to cultivate a sensationalist bent.
 
If you've gone through the atrocity of various SonicStage versions (or even the kinoma...I mean Connect Player!), and are still using walkman products today, you can see there's no doubt that Sony had relinquished most of its "controlling tendencies" many many years ago -- the first "drag and drop" walkmans for the world market came in 2006, which is 8 years ago. Whatever software they're still bundling today, for their failings, are often still superior experiences, not to mention you don't have to use them. Sony has come a long way in this respect, as they have in other areas like opening up to microSD support.
 
Sony's headphone business used to be exclusively focused on synergy with Sony products; it has made such a huge shift that the walkman synergy no longer exists. I find most of Sony's headphones post-2011 to have more of a synergy with Apple devices. Sony understood that it made business sense to chase after iOS user dollars and even began to expand the headphone business at this point, especially notable in the decision to self-develop BA drivers. After having very little heritage of hi-end headphones and 10 years of basically ignoring that segment, Sony made the call to build expertise with a series of products (EX700, EX1000, XBA-4...) because they have the sense to recognize that it is a growing market right now.
 
Based on these actual observations I wouldn't say Sony is always playing catch-up. I've got my frustration with a lot of Sony products. Today's Sony is very flaky with cost and quality control, stuff like that... But let's call a pear a pear: Where's the article about Panasonic's hubris re: smartphones, how they wanted to increase shipment tenfold to 15 million units within 3 years, but pulled the plug after barely 1? Or how badly hurt Sharp's pride is today after supposedly thinking they cornered the hi-end consumer LCD space for years, and how their attempt at building a Trinitron-like brand just collapsed into a heap of nothingness? Sony's Bravia brand is still doing far better than Sharp's Aquos business, even after bleeding cash for a decade, after all the bright tech people have supposedly been head-hunted by Samsung? How about an article on Samsung playing catch-up in expensive headphones?
 
Asking Sony to go back to being Sony of the 80s (or more likely, what some people think was the Sony of the 80s) is like asking Mickey Rourke to regain his 1980s good looks, or asking Chaz Bono to undo everything and go back to being Chastity Bono. First of all, is it even possible? and secondly, why undo a rollercoaster life journey? The gossipmonger in me would like to ask, what's the point in living then? If Sony didn't go through hell, would we still get our PHA-3AC today that probably obliterates even the TCD-D100 in sound quality?
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Sep 15, 2014 at 8:37 AM Post #128 of 7,541
I've always liked brands that had a big balls R&D department instead of a great marketing one. but truth is that often it's just easier to follow trends and make money of it. R&D and trying new things isn't the most popular money-making system nowadays. just look at movies in the last years and we can all guess what works best for money... not wasting time with creativity.
 
anyway hiss is getting lower and lower with each new walkman so I'm optimistic this time. the F886 was already "almost" silent and a huge improvement compared to the F806 before it.
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 7:37 PM Post #129 of 7,541
there is a very important place in this world for polished, major corporation products. A lot of people don't know wrong from right and would even claim small scale or hand made or made in Japan always means better quality...but you know, to each his own.

Being a large corporation and the resource that brings is integral to Sony's identity and advantage today. It is a key reason they can do good business on a long line of products that don't seem very original and can even be tracked to specific rivals by a layman (eg. The NC500D as a Bose imitation, or the MDR-10 as a ticket to the beats train).

We complain that Sony products are not very original,gawd knows i do that a ton, but really if you consider that (unconfirmed gossip) Zound Industries did not even have their own sound engineer until they did the Marshall major FX, Sony is clearly still a more capable and conscientious business. It's got clear standards and benchmarks and often acts as a great anchor or reference point.

Sony researches a lot and develops a lot, it's just that they often fail to achieve more brilliance than the competition. You listen to some of the long ass engineer interviews and you think, isn't that what the entire industry is doing anyways? Aw snap.

But that's also part of where I think people overestimate Sony. Sony has always been a cosmopolitan, near-luxury, quasi-lifestyle brand that banks on more polish and more style than redneck names like sanyo and Hitachi. However Sony style also must be deeply rooted in Japanese otaku sensibility; the few times that Sony did try to elevate itself creatively all ended in disaster, like the walkman A1000/A3000. The S700/600F was a great boutique product but had far lower impact on the market than Sony must've hoped, causing Sony to immediately revert to plasticky, significantly less tasteful looks for the S710/610.

I keep forgetting there should be an F880 replacement coming up this year. Would be fun to check out what it's raison d'etre is now that the Z3 and Z3compact can do several things we'd usually want a walkman for.
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 9:27 PM Post #130 of 7,541
oh I was thinking of sony as one with a big R&D. I kind of admired them and philips when I was a kid.
the S600/700 was a pure jewel. too much hiss for me with the default earphone even without noise canceling ON. and sonic stage... arrrrrggghhhh. but it was such a small, beautiful and intuitive interface. with a surprisingly ok battery life. I killed mine by putting too much pressure on the jack.
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about its maybe low success, in france it was one of those products you could really get only by sony online I believe. I never saw it in any store. and it was at a time where internet for us was really just starting to become actually usable and interesting. everybody who saw mine asked where to get one, but when I said I bought it online, most would go "oh... never mind then". internet wasn't in every house, and paying online still scared a lot of people.
I'm confident that if it had been shown everywhere in stores, it would have been a huge success here. it was a little piece of nothing that was screaming luxe and perfection to whoever was holding it.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 3:25 PM Post #132 of 7,541
  All, is there a memory limitation with is product? I've only seen 64G plus 128G card and for hi rez files some of us older than twenty can fill with just one artist.

 give a hand they take an arm. ^_^
 
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 6:22 PM Post #133 of 7,541
  All, is there a memory limitation with is product? I've only seen 64G plus 128G card and for hi rez files some of us older than twenty can fill with just one artist.

if 192gbs isn't enough you could spend $50 more and get a FiiO X5 which has no internal memory but comes with two microSD slots which combined can provide you up to 256gb of storage.
 
personally i love Sony for the thinner design,better UI,longer battery life and their warm house sound and customizable eq and clear bass settings.not to mention the fact that their products last ages. besides with microSD cards you can (theoretically depending on how many cards you can afford) carry around a little case small enough to put on a keychain storing as many microSD cards as you like,just swap one card out as desired.you could have well over a terrabyte at your disposal.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 7:28 PM Post #134 of 7,541
 
  All, is there a memory limitation with is product? I've only seen 64G plus 128G card and for hi rez files some of us older than twenty can fill with just one artist.

if 192gbs isn't enough you could spend $50 more and get a FiiO X5 which has no internal memory but comes with two microSD slots which combined can provide you up to 256gb of storage.
 
personally i love Sony for the thinner design,better UI,longer battery life and their warm house sound and customizable eq and clear bass settings.not to mention the fact that their products last ages. besides with microSD cards you can (theoretically depending on how many cards you can afford) carry around a little case small enough to put on a keychain storing as many microSD cards as you like,just swap one card out as desired.you could have well over a terrabyte at your disposal.


 we still don't know how sony will handle the SD slot. I'm guessing the scan will be fast, like when we unplug a walkman from a computer. but if you hope to use the sense me shuffles, then you'll have to wait god knows how long to scan the library after each sd swap. I do love using those stuff so I already know that I will never take the µsd out.
so I agree that something like the X5 might be a better option for bana.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 9:32 PM Post #135 of 7,541
 
 we still don't know how sony will handle the SD slot. I'm guessing the scan will be fast, like when we unplug a walkman from a computer. but if you hope to use the sense me shuffles, then you'll have to wait god knows how long to scan the library after each sd swap. I do love using those stuff so I already know that I will never take the µsd out.
so I agree that something like the X5 might be a better option for bana.

That's actually a very valid point (thank you for catching that),i've never used the 12tone/senseme feature on my F807 because i read a few reviews prior to purchasing the F807 about how long it takes to scan everything for the 12 tone analysis and so I have always just plugged my player in to the usb port and then used the Sony content transfer window or simply copied then pasted my music or video files into the music and/or video sub folders of the walkman folder on my computer, - and i know even doing that if i add (for example) a gigabyte of music it still takes around a minute or two to update the files after disconnecting the usb,and so even without using the senseme feature it would take quite awhile (over an hour i'd estimate) for the player to scan in all the data on a 64 or 128gb card.i hope the card will read/scan quicker but as you say we can't be certain until it's released. so yes for bana the X5 would be a better option in that regard.
 

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