Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › AudioValve LUMINARE & VERTO : for Stax headphones and for all dynamic headphones
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AudioValve LUMINARE & VERTO : for Stax headphones and for all dynamic headphones - Page 16  

post #226 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post



I never doubted you not to have probes capable of measuring direct drive ESL amps - at least those to 1 kv, which is good enough for Stax. You are designer and manufacturer - how could you do without them?

We should never forget that Kevin Gilmore is not a manufacturer amd has no financial interest. He is just a diy community member and a regarded Specialist. He knows more about E-Stat amps than anybody else worldwide an we and even every manufacturer should applaud his effort and take his comments serious for improving the designs. The ones I know that have made that at least sometimes are Cavalli and Woo and they have definitely more succes in that field than audiovalve.
Edited by cucera - 11/26/14 at 1:23pm
post #227 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post

first picture has no voltge levels. could be 10 volts
lots of conflicting published information, but no
picture of 10khz at 500vac

why?

piles of misrepresentation here.

I agree levels should have been specified. A clean 10 kHz square wave without given output voltage level is worthless - if it shatters to pieces at amplitudes required during demanding treble passages in music. RKV amp does not have tubes of sufficient power to maintain that kind of square wave quality at full output - yet it could meet or exceed most Stax direct drive models if implemented properly.

post #228 of 348
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

I agree levels should have been specified. A clean 10 kHz square wave without given output voltage level is worthless - if it shatters to pieces at amplitudes required during demanding treble passages in music. RKV amp does not have tubes of sufficient power to maintain that kind of square wave quality at full output - yet it could meet or exceed most Stax direct drive models if implemented properly.

 

Well, just ask (politely) to Mr. Becker to publish on its information website (http://www.audiovalve.info/to/luminare.php)  a square signal of his amplifier Luminare at 10 KHz, 500 VACpp, on a load of a typical Stax headphone (110 or 120 pF).

 

Specifications of the Luminare amp are not finalized  "more information comming soon ...." 


We may well hope expect, from Mr. Becker, one or two oscillograme for his Luminare ;) 


Edited by eric65 - 11/26/14 at 2:16pm
post #229 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by cucera View Post


We should never forget that Kevin Gilmore is not a manufacturer amd has no financial interest. He is just a diy community member and a regarded Specialist. He knows more about E-Stat amps than anybody else worldwide an we and even every manufacturer should applaud his effort and take his comments serious for improving the designs. The ones I know that have made that at least sometimes are Cavalli and Woo and they have definitely more succes in that field than audiovalve.

Sorry - I misinterpreted the fact that according to Mr. Gilmore's plans some people are building ESL amps for other peope - hence "manufacturer". But one can not DIY ESL amps without the possibility to measure them - can one ?

 

I appreciate what Mr. Gilmore has done in ESL amp field. And other manufacturers implementing his ideas and improvements are certainly clever to do so. 

 

However, Mr. Becker of audiovalve is not from yesterday either - I know of him for a hair below 30 years now.

Besides what became known as RKV and consequently RKV II, he did publish a DIY direct drive design with tubes in mid 80s. And if he, after trying any possible configuration to drive headphones, electrostatic included, came to the conclusion (amp with relatively high voltage + low step up ratio transformer ) is the best for powering ESLs all things considered, it only goes to confirm my idea from late 80s that never came to fruition due to myriad of reasons.

 

It is true that so far audiovalve has not been as successful in the field of ESL amps as Cavalli or Woo. However, it is Cavalli and Woo who are the new kids on the block - not the other way around. There is at least three decades

of experience behind the latest audiovalve creation - and even if it is not up to standard I expect from what I grew to associate Mr. Becker with, it is here - to stay.

 

I only wish the information on true capabilities was more complete and transparent - and that Mr. Becker would introduce his creation by himself. 

post #230 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric65 View Post
 

 

Well, just ask (politely) to Mr. Becker to publish on its information website (http://www.audiovalve.info/to/luminare.php)  a square signal of his amplifier Luminare at 10 KHz, 500 VACpp, on a load of a typical Stax headphone (110 or 120 pF).

 

Specifications of the Luminare amp are not finalized  "more information comming soon ...." 


We may well hope expect, from Mr. Becker, one or two oscillograme for his Luminare ;) 

I understand it is work in progress - and that it is wise to postpone release of measurements and amps until

all immediately appearent bugs have been ironed out. But a top sports car is supposed to reach say 200 mph - not leave its potential customers in the dark: it rolls -  2, 20, 200 mph ?

 

Regarding levels - 500 VACpp is too low. Full out is 1700+ VACpp - and even although music should not have so high levels of HF content to exceed 500 VACpp, it IS required in practice. This capability to better drive high frequencies than direct drive amps is the main feature and selling point of the new amp - so it should be clearly demonstrated with measurements that it is indeed superior to direct drive amps - ohne wenn und aber. If that is actually not the case, direct drive wins - there is no transformer like no transformer. 


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/26/14 at 2:49pm
post #231 of 348
Thread Starter 

analogsurviver, goodnight,

 

We can hope that the amplifier Luminare will equal in performance at the combo RKV-Verto (that I own) (Nb: I ordered the Luminare)

 

A revelation, the limiting factor for listen the piano or listening to a singer at a realistic sound level, with my audio system (D1 Drive + dac Audiomat Maestro ref + combo RKV2-Verto + SR-009) is my ear that begins to saturate and distortionner for high peak levels (> 110 dB?). 
My average listening level is ordre of 75 dB, if possible in a quiet environment (better signal /noise ratio), with level peaks rarely exceeding 100 dB. 
In 99% of my listen, the amplifier is used below 100 Vrms (below 280 Vpp); the level peaks measured with my microphone (Phonic PPA3) are not at 10 KHz, but at 60 or 80 Hz. 
At my level of average listening, the sound of the combo RKV-Verto + 009 is excellent, even in the highest notes in tone; better than with the amp SRM 727 (I've owned) or SRM 007T amp (that I've tested several days).

Otherwise, I have the utmost respect for Mr. Becker and achievements; Mr. Becker is not devoid of humor and he knows exactly what he does; we had very informative exchanges on the HCFR forum.

 

Eric

post #232 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric65 View Post
 

analogsurviver, goodnight,

 

We can hope that the amplifier Luminare will equal in performance at the combo RKV-Verto (that I own) (Nb: I ordered the Luminare)

 

A revelation, the limiting factor for listen the piano or listening to a singer at a realistic sound level, with my audio system (D1 Drive + dac Audiomat Maestro ref + combo RKV2-Verto + SR-009) is my ear that begins to saturate and distortionner for high peak levels (> 110 dB?). 
My average listening level is ordre of 75 dB, if possible in a quiet environment (better signal /noise ratio), with level peaks rarely exceeding 100 dB. 
In 99% of my listen, the amplifier is used below 100 Vrms (below 280 Vpp); the level peaks measured with my microphone (Phonic PPA3) are not at 10 KHz, but at 60 or 80 Hz. 
At my level of average listening, the sound of the combo RKV-Verto + 009 is excellent, even in the highest notes in tone; better than with the amp SRM 727 (I've owned) or SRM 007T amp (that I've tested several days).

Otherwise, I have the utmost respect for Mr. Becker and achievements; Mr. Becker is not devoid of humor and he knows exactly what he does; we had very informative exchanges on the HCFR forum.

 

Eric

It is quite enlightening to see my audiophile friends surprised/shocked/amazed to realize the following :  .... but who thought acoustic music live is SOOOO loud :eek: !

 

I agree average levels are low, but when say a piano - or Lord help us - some soprano decides to "say something" - then we are quickly at or above 110 dB. Even when music is not perceived as loud, peaks can reach those levels - and if the entire chain can not support those peaks, realism does get lost. For this reason of making recordings to sound good on broader selection of equipment, even classical music is most of the time recorded compressed and not with full capability.

 

Try to reproduce uncompressed recording of say Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique at real concert levels - big drum and timpany will overtax (almost?) any Stax.

 

I too have utmost respect for Mr. Becker and know he is anything but devoid of humor - otherwise one of the chapters in his DIY direct drive ESL amp would not have started Das E-Werk freut Sich ( Power Station is looking forward to you ) - direct drive amps are usually by default class A, if you couple that with tubes, you do get quite nice not-so-small electrical radiator; in coming winter certainly the most musical heating source available.

 

I guess I will have to dust off my French a little, HCFR appears to be worth the trouble.

 

Bon nuit, Eric65.


Edited by analogsurviver - 11/26/14 at 4:26pm
post #233 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by cucera View Post


The ones I know that have made that at least sometimes are Cavalli and Woo and they have definitely more succes in that field than audiovalve.

Cavalli and woo following KG's comments ? Apart from Woo's dated GES, I don't really see how.

 

At least, Woo's amps look good.

post #234 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by customcoco View Post

Cavalli and woo following KG's comments ? Apart from Woo's dated GES, I don't really see how.

At least, Woo's amps look good.

No following is the wrong word, but the WES is at least based on a KG Design and Cavalli even when fighting the KG/Spritzer comments regarding his LL on the other side eventually repaired some of the issues in the following releases.
post #235 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by cucera View Post


No following is the wrong word, but the WES is at least based on a KG Design and Cavalli even when fighting the KG/Spritzer comments regarding his LL on the other side eventually repaired some of the issues in the following releases.


I agree, then.

 

:beerchug:

post #236 of 348

The WES is NOT my design. Not even close. I would never do that.

 

The GES IS my design.

post #237 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post

The WES is NOT my design. Not even close. I would never do that.

The GES IS my design.

Sorry for the confusion.
post #238 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
 

The WES is NOT my design. Not even close. I would never do that.

 

The GES IS my design.


Oh, sorry too.

 

I stupidly thought that it was some kind of GES on steroids that Woo somehow managed to screw up.

post #239 of 348
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

Just a note to say that the Luminare amp should have the same operational amplifiers than the RKV-III amp (OPA134) (against OPA LF351N for the RKV-II) ; also, probably a type of construction "dual mono" as the RKV-III amp ; and also input / outputs symetric with XLR connections. http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178340079.html#p178340079

 

Which distinguishes the Luminare amp of the RKV-III amp, in addition to its different aesthetic, is initially less power (use, with the Luminare amp of only 2 power tubes per channel instead of 4 with the RKV-III) (note : max power is of 3.3 Watts per channel into 220 Ohms (1% THD) with Luminare against 5.6 Watts per channel into 220 Ohms (1% THD) with RKV-III) and the presence of step-up voltage transformers for low ratio (1: 5.9) (as that of the Verto box), and a pro (and normal) bias generator resulting from the plate voltage of the tubes (Luminare amp) and not from the source by tapping into the music signal, as with the device Self Biasing (SB) of the Verto box).

post #240 of 348
Thread Starter 

Update  :)

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › AudioValve LUMINARE & VERTO : for Stax headphones and for all dynamic headphones