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PM-1 vs HE-6 ..... - Page 7

post #91 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

FWIW, I really love both my PM-1 and my 560. They are both extremely satisfying in their own individual takes on the music and when I put one on I just don't want to stop listening.
Many tracks favor one phone or the other, but most sound great on both.
The PM-1 emphasizes smoothness and sweet but extended highs, and it's a unique juxtaposition of silky treble, where the sometimes harsh digital edge of a bad recording is handled with finesse, but the details are not hidden, just not pushed into my ears. Any vocals or brittle highs
are detectable as there, just a bit distant, so they are not prominent and painful. It is a liquid, continuous, silky sound. But somehow I'm convinced I'm hearing all that is there in the performance: all the important stuff. The PM-1 just walks the line nicely.

The 560 also does this tightrope walk, but with more exposure of detail and texture, and shows electrostatic-like detail, texture, and speed on good recordings. But even bad recordings are handled decently. A vocal that has some digital grain will show it more than the PM-1,
and I am more aware that this is a lesser recording with some abrasiveness in the mids, buts that's just the price of truth, and sometimes the truth hurts. But the 560 still never loses it composure, and it's not like a bad metal tweeter on a speaker, so still, there is some
reticence, and the sound is not analytical (like some Wilson speakers if you ever heard them).

I think both headphone try to make things sound musical and process things a bit, and don't just let it all hang out, but the PM-1 just does it more actively.
But again, both are great and, along with the Stax SR009, represent modern headphone design at its best, and I am happy to have both, and both will get lots of head time.
And in the end, the love you take.....is equal to the love.......you make. Good to see love for both. We are so fortunate to have such high quality gear to discuss.
post #92 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post


And in the end, the love you take.....is equal to the love.......you make. Good to see love for both. We are so fortunate to have such high quality gear to discuss.

 

 


Edited by SilverEars - 7/13/14 at 11:52am
post #93 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron12 View Post

 

I would be personally more interested in how PM-1 sound out of something as neutral and ultratransparent as GSX mkII. Simply if they are really high-end enough to scale significantly. :)

After trying the PM-1 with the hybrid Bada PH-12* [and not the best tube arrangement, either--1x Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB & 2x ElectroHarmonix 6SN7EH], I prefer the Oppos paired with either the (solid state) Lehmann BCL or the (ss) ß22.

 

IMHO, the detail, transparency, speed, transient attack and bass control of capable ss gear really augment/better complement the native [warm, smooth and tonally/dynamically nuanced] sound signature of the PM-1.  To my ears, the PM-1 are certainly "high end enough" to enable the listener to clearly discern different amp characteristics and any commensurate "scaling up".  Have not heard the GSX Mk.II, but given my past experience with Gilmore amps, the PM-1 may very well benefit from such a pairing.

 

When I get the chance, I will re-tube the Bada with more "neutral" tubes [e.g. Sylvania, Ken-Rad, JAN Philips, etc.] and try another listen.  

 

The AKG 812Pro, on the other hand--whose inherent sound signature already leans toward speed, neutrality and transparency, sound very good with ss gear, but [IMHO] appreciably better with tubes.

 

*Since Fitz worked on my Bada PH-12, it performs at another level altogether.


Edited by pataburd - 7/13/14 at 10:11pm
post #94 of 139
I much prefer the HE6 sound over PM1, even when driven by a "underpowered" Hugo. But I love the PM1 aesthetics, build, material, comfort, and carrying case.

I just wish oppo will follow this up with a model that is tuned less safe, with more treble presence and less congested/intimate sound. Something along the lines of the K812 should be quite good and have wide appeal.

Oh fwiw I don't like the he560 and is honestly amazed to see so much praise. The plastic gimble and "wood" veneer are really deal breakers for me, while the sound is nothing special to make me overlook those shortcomings. I would probably take the HE500 over it.
post #95 of 139

I owned and enjoyed the HE-6 [recabled and driven directly from power amps] for almost two years before eventually tiring of them.

The Martin Logan Mikros 90 closed portables were my initial reintroduction to conventional dynamics.  A real breath of fresh air and a welcome departure from planars for me.

Have eventually come back--relievedly and full circle--to the "non-planar" AKG K812 Pro dynamic presentation.

To me, the PM-1 sound more like a "non-planar", tonally and dynamically, which is probably why I like/prefer them now.

Plus they are not big, bulky, awkward, heavy and comparatively expensive to drive like the Audeze or HifiMAN.


Edited by pataburd - 7/15/14 at 5:35am
post #96 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

I much prefer the HE6 sound over PM1, even when driven by a "underpowered" Hugo. But I love the PM1 aesthetics, build, material, comfort, and carrying case.

I just wish oppo will follow this up with a model that is tuned less safe, with more treble presence and less congested/intimate sound. Something along the lines of the K812 should be quite good and have wide appeal.

Oh fwiw I don't like the he560 and is honestly amazed to see so much praise. The plastic gimble and "wood" veneer are really deal breakers for me, while the sound is nothing special to make me overlook those shortcomings. I would probably take the HE500 over it.

I'm guessing it's because people owning he560 only, not the HE-6 with it or they don't drive the HE-6 properly. People that only own one TOTL do not have anything to compare to, and they will only praise it if coming from mid-fi. I think the main reason why HE-6 usually dismissed is that people try to drive it like an LCD, and thinking it sounds terrible under driven.  All it needs is power and I guess some people are not aware of that or not prepare before they take the plunge.  There are plenty of inexpensive ways to give it enough power and people only have headphone amp stuck in their heads.  

 

I actually dismissed HE-6 over LCD because I never liked the HiFiMan's design.  HM-901.. and etc.. But, I was intrigued with how people were saying it's hard to drive, adn when I got my Beta 22, I decided to give it a try, and it definately drove it to the level where I like the sound, and although O2 drove it, it noticeably sounded much less controlled than the Beta.


Edited by SilverEars - 7/15/14 at 6:22am
post #97 of 139
Thread Starter 

The main issue I have with the concept of 'TOTL' headphones is that those goalposts seem to move roughly once every 6 months unless you live exclusively in the 'stat universe. I remember when the LCD-2 was released and suddenly HD800 owners realised they couldnt live with the Senn treble response, then the LCD2 was 'too dark' when Beyer released a slew of new cans and we were all floored last year (from memory) when we saw the sticker on the Abyss. As of right now, my HD800 are the best headphones I've ever heard with the LCD-X a close second but many here will undoubtedly disagree - horses for courses, I guess, but for me they've stood the test of time. 

post #98 of 139
And when should we hear your experience with the big silver box? tongue.gif
post #99 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

I'm guessing it's because people owning he560 only, not the HE-6 with it or they ....

Yup I agree that could be the case. FWIW I don't necessarily think he560 sounded bad or anything, and in fact if I have to choose between PM1 vs he560 vs LCD2 I would probably pick the hifiman in spite of its aesthetics as I prefer it's signature over the other two.

I just am surprised at the way it is being hyped by some as delivering good HE6 sound (or even better sound) straight out of your iPhone or run of the mills DAPs.
Edited by kkcc - 7/15/14 at 10:47am
post #100 of 139

Well, I sense after using the 560 a while now that it also needs a good amount of power to shine. I certainly need to turn the volume up a lot on my Rudistor, more than with other phones.

But of course, the need for power is not just about volume, but ease and a sense that the phone or amp is not straining.

In that way, the 560 is like the HE6, but not nearly as much.

post #101 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post


Yup I agree that could be the case. FWIW I don't necessarily think he560 sounded bad or anything, and in fact if I have to choose between PM1 vs he560 vs LCD2 I would probably pick the hifiman in spite of its aesthetics as I prefer it's signature over the other two.

I just am surprised at the way it is being hyped by some as delivering good HE6 sound (or even better sound) straight out of your iPhone or run of the mills DAPs.

 

I never put much creedence in any claim of that nature even when I'm looking for a pair of easy-to-drive iems. There is a huge difference between 'needing an amp to shine' and 'benefiting from an external amp' - to date, the Hugo is the only source where I've had to concede that the addition of an external amp may not be necessary for the majority of cans (I still want the Taurus with my HD800s)

post #102 of 139

I figure I might as well wade in here...

 

I have the Taurus, and for now it is the only amp I'm using with my HE-6. The HE-6 does indeed sound good from the Taurus, certainly good enough that you'll be able to clearly hear which of the two (PM-1/HE-6) you prefer in side by side comparison. On that count you're good to go.

 

The Taurus is not the best I've heard the 6 though, so far for me the best pairing I've heard them with was a Luxman integrated amp (L507U from memory), 110w/channel into 8ohm and straight off the speaker taps. I also ran my HE-6 off some Merak monoblocks (200w/channel), and didn't think the pairing was quite there for me, so apart from having sufficient power there is still a matter of finding the right upstream synergy as far as my ears and preferences go.

 

The Taurus is good enough though that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything when I listen off it, which affords me the luxury of taking my time over selecting the amp I want to settle down with for the HE-6. 

 

I've only heard the PM-1 briefly, and from a Dragonfly 1.2, and for what it was being driven off the sound was really very good. The signature just isn't for me however, but I could easily see how for some people the PM-1 would play to their preferences very nicely.

post #103 of 139

Maybe I should have kept my HE6. I have the Lux L507U. Great amp for my speakers.

'actually thinking of trying a Taurus someday from all the reviews I've read.  Someday...


Edited by rgs9200m - 7/18/14 at 5:12pm
post #104 of 139

Don't miss the HE-6 at all when the PM-1 are on.

:wink:

post #105 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post
 

I like the HE-6s and the HE-560 better than the PM-1s. PM-1s are a bit too laid back to my ears, but not bad (aside from the $). I heard them (2x PM1s and an HE-560) side by side off of the same system. If I recall correctly, the PM1s are more efficient and less amp powa demanding.

 

IMO the HE-560 > HE-6 but did not heard them side by side. Furthermore, I feel the HE-560 has more in common with the HE-6 than the PM-1. The HE-6s might be more bright than the HE-560. Both are great headphones depending on what one is looking for and what is ones frame of reference. 


You're sitting on my table at the next mini-meet! You will see how far ahead my HE-6 is to the HE-560  :veryevil:

 

I don't remember if you compared both at the last meet.

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