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Amp for HD800: Soloist SL or WA7? - Page 2

post #16 of 43
Haba
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post

Oh I expected it to be bad, just wondered how bad you thought it was :P. I wouldn't be buying 1000+ dollars worth of gear if I thought the E17 was enough haha. Infact the drive ability listed on Fiio's website for the E17 is 150 ohms.... so the lower frequency part of the HD800 impedence curve that is at 600ohms must be pretty pathedic. I use an E17 for my HD598's and that's fine... it'll be fun to plug the 598's into the soloist SL/concero actually, see if they scale up at all.

Or if I ever use them again after my HD800s.

Haha yeah. It's mediocre at best, but truthfully and for the money that FiiO e 17 is a beautiful DAC/Amp for the $$. Pair this with audio technical Ath-m50 headphones and you've got the best sound for your money. Awesome pairing. I got the M-50's a couple of days ago. Guess I better add that to my inventory list. Lol!

Also. You will use those other headphones still! At first, and these are just my findings. The HD 800's take some getting used to, especially during burn in time. They are quite sharp and bright in some areas mainly treble and sibilance, but with the right DAC and proper burn in time it will level out and be much warmer. You'll probably listen to 2 or 3 albums and then Give your ears a break. They are awesome but once you get used to them they are ethereal. The Burson is so balanced, so you will be maxing out the HD's potential for dynamics. Live recordings will sound like studio recordings. Lol
post #17 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephilim32 View Post

Haba
Haha yeah. It's mediocre at best, but truthfully and for the money that FiiO e 17 is a beautiful DAC/Amp for the $$. Pair this with audio technical Ath-m50 headphones and you've got the best sound for your money. Awesome pairing. I got the M-50's a couple of days ago. Guess I better add that to my inventory list. Lol!

Also. You will use those other headphones still! At first, and these are just my findings. The HD 800's take some getting used to, especially during burn in time. They are quite sharp and bright in some areas mainly treble and sibilance, but with the right DAC and proper burn in time it will level out and be much warmer. You'll probably listen to 2 or 3 albums and then Give your ears a break. They are awesome but once you get used to them they are ethereal. The Burson is so balanced, so you will be maxing out the HD's potential for dynamics. Live recordings will sound like studio recordings. Lol

 

Huh... well that's interesting. I own a pair of M50s. I use them at work since they're closed, and the coiled cable is so damn convenient since I move around a fairly large work space. I'll have to bring them home and try them with the Fiio. Or bring the E17 to work.... though that feels like way too many instances of 'What's that?'

post #18 of 43
Ys
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post

Huh... well that's interesting. I own a pair of M50s. I use them at work since they're closed, and the coiled cable is so damn convenient since I move around a fairly large work space. I'll have to bring them home and try them with the Fiio. Or bring the E17 to work.... though that feels like way too many instances of 'What's that?'

Yes! Give it a try. Those m-50's are only 38 impedance. It's great for on the go travel and certainly the best you can get for the money. It is quite a nice pairing I find. I only add +2 bass on the EQ and that is it and of course I leave my apple devices on FLAT EQ setting. It's quite nice.
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by julzd View Post

At that same budget look at schiit Vali and odac

+1 

post #20 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephilim32 View Post

Ys
Yes! Give it a try. Those m-50's are only 38 impedance. It's great for on the go travel and certainly the best you can get for the money. It is quite a nice pairing I find. I only add +2 bass on the EQ and that is it and of course I leave my apple devices on FLAT EQ setting. It's quite nice.

 

So the HD800 have arrived! Been burning them in for 12 hours or so... Amp and DAC arriving next week.

 

So even plugged into E17, (with no gain at all) they are not preposterous! I mean you can tell the imaging is there, and the detail, and the dynamic response. The volume would never blow yours ears out but it's healthy. All in all, with them plugged in to E17 they sound barely better than HD598... but...better.  All of this makes me crazy excited to plug them into the decent gear and see how much further they improve :)

post #21 of 43
Thread Starter 

Also...at no point have I gone, OMG this is terrible, where's the bass? Some tracks you can tell it's a bit lower, but it'd never like listening to a tin can :P

post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post
 

Also...at no point have I gone, OMG this is terrible, where's the bass? Some tracks you can tell it's a bit lower, but it'd never like listening to a tin can :P

yea welcome to the internet land of exagerations 

 

Nothing is ever as "bad" as ppl say it is 

post #23 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

yea welcome to the internet land of exagerations 

 

Nothing is ever as "bad" as ppl say it is 

Well... it's all relative. Some people go to great lengths to train their hear to pick up very subtle variations. The more you become aware, the more the differences become distinct and 'bigger'. Still though, I think it's important to remain reasonable and judge each recording on an appropriate standard.

 

If I judge my my 12 year old whiskies with the same standards as my 30 year olds, I'm going be spend WAAAY to much money on whisky, and lose an appreciation of why you spend 100's of dollars on whisky several decades old.

 

I think of it as both a curse and a blessing at the same time. It ruins so much sound/music, but makes some of it so much more satisfying.

 

Whether fortunate or unfortunately, playing the violin for as long as I have has forced me to develop an ear for detail for the sake of being in high control of your sound. Picking up better audiophile gear has been an extension of that, I think.


Edited by ziggysp2000 - 7/4/14 at 7:59am
post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post
 

Well... it's all relative. Some people go to great lengths to train their hear to pick up very subtle variations. The more you become aware, the more the differences become distinct and 'bigger'. Still though, I think it's important to remain reasonable and judge each recording on an appropriate standard.

 

If I judge my my 12 year old whiskies with the same standards as my 30 year olds, I'm going be spend WAAAY to much money on whisky, and lose an appreciation of why you spend 100's of dollars on whisky several decades old.

 

I think of it as both a curse and a blessing at the same time. It ruins so much sound/music, but makes some of it so much more satisfying.

 

Whether fortunate or unfortunately, playing the violin for as long as I have has forced me to develop an ear for detail for the sake of being in high control of your sound. Picking up better audiophile gear has been an extension of that, I think.

WEll spoken man,  

 

I'm not saying we should judge $400 cans and $1000 by the same standards, but there's a differance between, this headphone is brighter than I like, or this headphone tends to be very bright, and this headphone is very sibilant

 

for example, some ppl would lead to you believe that the LCD 2 has no treble, I heard this alot... the reality is while it is very dark, and the treble has a noteably recessed treble it's not as "bad" as some people in Summit fi would lead to you believe. What Summit Fi members do some times is put their own personal frustrations with a sound signiture into their impressions

 

Going back to the LCD 2 [I got to hear a Fazor] I found a lot about what was said, negantilivy, was horse manure, and to some extent some of the positives where just the same

 

so my point here is, when we learn to distinguish higher end gear, we should not forget how little those differances are in reality and in retro spect. Does that LITTLE detail matter... YES it matters a LOT. But should we describe what is in reality a small improvement, as some HUGE relvelation or some HUGE failure... no

 

but yea you made a good point, and what I have found recently, is most High end headphones [with simmilar sound signitures] sound rather simmilar, the differeance are really in the speed, imaging, tactility, and overall balance, no ONE little thing makes Headphone A better than Headphone B, it's the comboniation of pros and cons that leads to the overall better experince

 

I'd still like to hear the HD 800, I have found i prefer the BRIGHT and WIDE sound signiture over the years, my DT 880, DT 990 and HE 4 all share a simmilar sound, enhanced treble, a touch of withdrawn low mids, linear bass and good speed

post #25 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

WEll spoken man,  

 

I'm not saying we should judge $400 cans and $1000 by the same standards, but there's a differance between, this headphone is brighter than I like, or this headphone tends to be very bright, and this headphone is very sibilant

 

for example, some ppl would lead to you believe that the LCD 2 has no treble, I heard this alot... the reality is while it is very dark, and the treble has a noteably recessed treble it's not as "bad" as some people in Summit fi would lead to you believe. What Summit Fi members do some times is put their own personal frustrations with a sound signiture into their impressions

 

Going back to the LCD 2 [I got to hear a Fazor] I found a lot about what was said, negantilivy, was horse manure, and to some extent some of the positives where just the same

 

so my point here is, when we learn to distinguish higher end gear, we should not forget how little those differances are in reality and in retro spect. Does that LITTLE detail matter... YES it matters a LOT. But should we describe what is in reality a small improvement, as some HUGE relvelation or some HUGE failure... no

 

but yea you made a good point, and what I have found recently, is most High end headphones [with simmilar sound signitures] sound rather simmilar, the differeance are really in the speed, imaging, tactility, and overall balance, no ONE little thing makes Headphone A better than Headphone B, it's the comboniation of pros and cons that leads to the overall better experince

 

I'd still like to hear the HD 800, I have found i prefer the BRIGHT and WIDE sound signiture over the years, my DT 880, DT 990 and HE 4 all share a simmilar sound, enhanced treble, a touch of withdrawn low mids, linear bass and good speed

 

I encourage you to try the HD800...it really is quite the experience. I never wanted to get into this, it was too much money. The HD800 was a big enough wow factor when I tried them, that I now own a pair.

 

Regarding the other stuff, we're on the same page. What I was trying to convey is that at this level ($1000+), there really aren't any bad headphones. They all have a different character, and we should be quite happy about that! Some do this better, some do that better, sure. I get the impression that sometimes people are looking for one headphone to just be the best in every way. I'm not convinced that exists, there's always some compromise, no matter how fine. I do however sympathize, I think it's fairly natural to want that superiority when you're spending so much money. Ideally you pick the cans that check off the most boxes on your list of wants. For me, these Sennheisers do that exceptionally well. That isn't to say I'll listen to LCD's someday and think they're crap! They'll just have a different list of things they do best. I'll appreciate those for what they are.

 

Obviously there's people who... if you don't like the sound signature they do, they almost make your ears feel less developed or refined than theirs. At that point you're no longer talking about the gear at all, and I think it best to just move on. I think it's beautiful that music /sound resonates with people differently, yet we're all looking for the same basic thing from it. 

post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post
 

 

I encourage you to try the HD800...it really is quite the experience. I never wanted to get into this, it was too much money. The HD800 was a big enough wow factor when I tried them, that I now own a pair.

 

Regarding the other stuff, we're on the same page. What I was trying to convey is that at this level ($1000+), there really aren't any bad headphones. They all have a different character, and we should be quite happy about that! Some do this better, some do that better, sure. I get the impression that sometimes people are looking for one headphone to just be the best in every way. I'm not convinced that exists, there's always some compromise, no matter how fine. I do however sympathize, I think it's fairly natural to want that superiority when you're spending so much money. Ideally you pick the cans that check off the most boxes on your list of wants. For me, these Sennheisers do that exceptionally well. That isn't to say I'll listen to LCD's someday and think they're crap! They'll just have a different list of things they do best. I'll appreciate those for what they are.

 

Obviously there's people who... if you don't like the sound signature they do, they almost make your ears feel less developed or refined than theirs. At that point you're no longer talking about the gear at all, and I think it best to just move on. I think it's beautiful that music /sound resonates with people differently, yet we're all looking for the same basic thing from it. 

that does sound about right lol

 

have you though about maybe, wait do you have a high end dac on the way? Many users have found that using the Vali with the HD 800 was a worth while pairing. So maybe get a decent high end dac then the little Vali for a rather nice combo. I enjoyed the Vali Immensly with my DT 880 600 ohm, which is simmilar in sound signiture as the HD 800 [it lacks a lot of the technicalities] but what I enjoyed was the Vali gave the sub bass of the Dynamic DT 880 a nice boost! 

post #27 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
 

that does sound about right lol

 

have you though about maybe, wait do you have a high end dac on the way? Many users have found that using the Vali with the HD 800 was a worth while pairing. So maybe get a decent high end dac then the little Vali for a rather nice combo. I enjoyed the Vali Immensly with my DT 880 600 ohm, which is simmilar in sound signiture as the HD 800 [it lacks a lot of the technicalities] but what I enjoyed was the Vali gave the sub bass of the Dynamic DT 880 a nice boost! 

Yes I already have a Resonessence Concero DAC that arrived yesterday. It's very well reviewed, and it is in the price range of the uberfrost. You have a hard time finding people who dont at the very least respect it.

 

As far the amp, I have a Burson Soloist SL on the way from Australia. It's got quite a bit more output power than the Vali, and it seems to be a popular pairing with HD800 in regards to solid state amps (of course so often you see people pairing HD800 with tubes because they find the HD800 too bright, I don't share that opinion).

post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post

So the HD800 have arrived! Been burning them in for 12 hours or so... Amp and DAC arriving next week.

So even plugged into E17, (with no gain at all) they are not preposterous! I mean you can tell the imaging is there, and the detail, and the dynamic response. The volume would never blow yours ears out but it's healthy. All in all, with them plugged in to E17 they sound barely better than HD598... but...better.  All of this makes me crazy excited to plug them into the decent gear and see how much further they improve smily_headphones1.gif

Yeah it's not terrible or anything, but its not the highest degree of quality meaning they are not being driven to their full capacity. Listen I know exactly how you feel and when I got my 800's at first I paired them just with my regular stereo's amp!! I thought to myself, "man there is no way this sound can get better?' Boy was I really wrong. Then I did what you did. Started using it with the FIIO and thought ok, there it is I've hit the zenith. Lol wrong again. Lastly and this was the real kicker. I paired my 800's with a Harman Kardon receiver's OPAMP and this unit of course powers the HD 800's and can maximize its bass potential, but again the detail and imaging are not that of the Burson. Having a dedicated SS amp is huge! Your first notice will probably be how pitch black the background is. You really are sitting pretty on such a clean template. And the sound is very very neutral. About as close as you can get to a flat EQ response without sacrificing too much bass. The Burson doesn't go cheap on the bass, but of course it's good to experience opamps in receivers and the FIIO because of treble and bass control, so you can hear the 800's capacity for supporting both.

Again. Do not forget about that concero DAC!
When you pair that with the Burson it's gonna be lights out.

Enjoy man.
post #29 of 43
Neitger
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggysp2000 View Post

Yes I already have a Resonessence Concero DAC that arrived yesterday. It's very well reviewed, and it is in the price range of the uberfrost. You have a hard time finding people who dont at the very least respect it.

As far the amp, I have a Burson Soloist SL on the way from Australia. It's got quite a bit more output power than the Vali, and it seems to be a popular pairing with HD800 in regards to solid state amps (of course so often you see people pairing HD800 with tubes because they find the HD800 too bright, I don't share that opinion).
[Neither

Neither do I. A quality DAC can remedy this and you won't sacrifice coloring the 800's dynamics. smily_headphones1.gif
post #30 of 43
One more thing man. Chances are you have dirty power in your home. Please let me know when your Burson arrives. If you hear an intense electrical hummming when you connect your 3 pronged AC power cord into the socket it's because of the way your power is grounded and once you connect the amp via RCA phono you will get a nasty humming. I experienced this, but its an easy fix. With a pair of pliers rip out the center prong which is the safety surge in the middle of the AC Cord that plugs into the socket directly into your wall. Chances are that is creating the interference. I did this and was successful at getting rid of that horrible hummming. You might have to do this.
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