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HD800 being "picky" with amps myth - Page 5

post #61 of 308
im getting a hd800 this week and i have an asgard 2 and lyr ill provide some feed backs : p
post #62 of 308
i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazic View Post

What would be so offensively horrible about using a digital EQ to hit the frequency you're feeling the HD800's are missing? Not trying to troll just wondering. I personally am in love with my Koss KSC75's with my Samsung S4 with Viper4Android's audio suite. It allows me to add an EQ and some more bass impact/punch. It turns a $15 pair of headphones into something that could rival something 20x as much. Sure they aren't as detailed as others an get and the sound stage is relatively small but I'm able to squeeze so much out of them by doing so. 

Maybe it's just a stigmatism that if you're paying out of your butt for headphones/amps/sources you shouldn't ever lower yourself to having to touch a frequency knob. I know I personally think that should be the case but since no two records are the same and no recording engineers are the same...

I am going to be ordering a pair of HD800's and a Schiit Lyr/Bifrost in the next few weeks and I can tell you that I will definitely be playing with some EQ to get the most out of them.

its not that i disagree with eq i think its fine, if your are going to substantially change the original sound signature why not just go for an headphone thats closer to your ideal signature. then you can use less eq and less distortion from too much eq.
post #63 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkawaiiO View Post

i
its not that i disagree with eq i think its fine, if your are going to substantially change the original sound signature why not just go for an headphone thats closer to your ideal signature. then you can use less eq and less distortion from too much eq.

True. My argument would be that I loved the sound stage and detail and comfort that isn't available on planar headphones for example. Detail yes, but comfort of a 16oz pair of headphones is an issue.
post #64 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazic View PostWhat would be so offensively horrible about using a digital EQ to hit the frequency you're feeling the HD800's are missing?

Nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View PostHere's a good read if it hasn't been posted already: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod

Also valid. I went with the EQ route as I am not confident in my ability to reproduce those results; the consistency of a DIY modification of this nature seems a bit suspect.

 

In my case PEQ only "corrects" perceived frequency response (or more broadly, performance in linear terms), whereas the modification alters other factors such as housing resonances and decay performance.

 

The mods don't EQ the headphones, but remove reflections off the ring around the driver and other areas inside the cups. You still have a 6 kHz treble peak but it doesn't become nasty when the upstream components aren't linear in that area, and music such as  "SCHWEEEEEEEEEEEEET JANE" ends up just sibilant, not downright annoying.

 

The consistency of the mod depends on how good you are with scissors. :smile: 

post #65 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

The mods don't EQ the headphones, but remove reflections off the ring around the driver and other areas inside the cups. You still have a 6 kHz treble peak but it doesn't become nasty when the upstream components aren't linear in that area and "SCHWEEEEEEEEEEEEET JANE" is just sibilant, not downright annoying.

The consistency of the mod depends on how good you are with scissors. smile.gif

Is there a printout for that mod?
post #66 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View PostThe mods don't EQ the headphones, but remove reflections off the ring around the driver and other areas inside the cups. You still have a 6 kHz treble peak but it doesn't become nasty when the upstream components aren't linear in that area, and music such as  "SCHWEEEEEEEEEEEEET JANE" ends up just sibilant, not downright annoying.

 

The consistency of the mod depends on how good you are with scissors. :smile: 

Oh, I know. The effect that many will notice outright will be the reduction of amplitude from the upper-midrange on upwards (2.5-5KHz+). The reduced ringing and improved decay characteristics will be appreciated by fewer, discriminating ears.

 

EQ would achieve a similar effect to the tonal balance, but you wouldn't gain the ancillary benefits of reduced baffle reflections and improved decay characteristics.

 

I'm pretty sensitive to upper midrange/lower treble peakiness and a 2-3 shelf from 5KHz upwards makes the HD 800 pretty tolerable to me. I'm going to do the mod when I'm certain I can do it right in its most contemporary iteration.:bigsmile_face: 


Edited by 3X0 - 6/25/14 at 4:51pm
post #67 of 308
 

Inadequacy of measurements...

 

Our ability to measure resolves many orders of magnitude beyond our ability to hear. Amplifiers are simple pieces of equipment, because they perform a simple task. Likewise, the signal coming out of an amp differs in a predictable & explainable way from the signal going in. A well designed amp places just nearly all of those differences well out of audible range. Other "well designed" amps purposefully or not place some more of those differences well within the audible range. There just isn't enough going on in an amp that we can't measure and explain down to minutia.

 

What's inadequate about the measurements is the average joe will never have the chance to properly measure one let alone all of his amps and see for himself. That and the physiologically real placebo effect. The issue is further muddied by a loooong legacy of marketing pseudo science line blurring (to put it nicely in many particular cases :mad:) Also add the, previously mentioned, relatively huge distortion of all transducers, the "house sound", and intentional distortion, etc. placed perhaps anywhere in the audio chain from mixing mastering source to amp by any number of parties, and you get a circus of equipment swapping, synergy searching audiophilic gesturing. 

 

There's nothing wrong with that I guess.. I mean that's pretty much what makes all this so fun. Also so much $$$ :) I even get sucked into the gesturing from time to time. But there is not much in the "why does it sound this way" frontier that can't already be quantified, explained, and reliably extrapolated from; perhaps not always in the individual knowledge context, but in the collective industry knowledge context, sure. So, it is a bit frustrating we are marketed a dichotomy of the grail of flat response vs the improved coloration (ok I'm really generalizing here), yet often no honest disclosure of which is which - so we must rely on our ears. 

Anyways, rant off. Happy listening to all of us.

post #68 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICWUTUDIDTHAR View Post
 

I always found this strange, it seems like around the time the HD800 came out, someone said that it was difficult to drive and needed a good "partner" in terms of an amp. Ever since then, every post on head-fi regarding the hd800 seems to be about how "picky" the hd800 is and how you need to pair it with the "correct" amp.  I really don't see how this is possible. Is this just a case of sheep syndrome or what?

 

Good topic.  I agree with the OP 100%.  Take a look in the HD800 thread.  There's lots of folks with very different amps.  By their acounts they all sound good to them.  This is a "myth"  All that's needed for is a quality Amp and DAC.  Quality comes is all price ranges.   

post #69 of 308

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OICWUTUDIDTHAR View Post
 

I always found this strange, it seems like around the time the HD800 came out, someone said that it was difficult to drive and needed a good "partner" in terms of an amp. Ever since then, every post on head-fi regarding the hd800 seems to be about how "picky" the hd800 is and how you need to pair it with the "correct" amp.  I really don't see how this is possible. Is this just a case of sheep syndrome or what?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Good topic.  I agree with the OP 100%.  Take a look in the HD800 thread.  There's lots of folks with very different amps.  By their acounts they all sound good to them.  This is a "myth"  All that's needed for is a quality Amp and DAC.  Quality comes is all price ranges.   

This makes so much sense.  Let's see the logic here.

 

It's picky with amps.  That means there is only a few good amps for it.  So, this means people will get the good amp.  That means most likely majority will have a certain amp.  

 

According to preroman, there are many different types of amps enjoyed by many owners.

 

This means that the HD800 being finicky with amp is most likely false if there are many folks enjoying many different amps. 

 

Let's get into the bottom of why somebody would want to spread the idea that HD800 is finicky with amps.

post #70 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post


Let's get into the bottom of why somebody would want to spread the idea that HD800 is finicky with amps.

Buyer's remorse or self justification for spending 1400 on a pair of headphones widely held to be at the pinnacle of dynamics?

I mean, something's to blame if you can't hear Aretha Franklin’s stress-fart just prior to her high A in her recording of ‘You’re All I Need To Get By’ and it certainly isn't the brand new headphone that cost 14 hundred bucks

Cheers
Edited by ab initio - 6/28/14 at 10:39am
post #71 of 308

I think the problem is  most people haven't heard the HD800 extensively before they bought it. 

post #72 of 308

I put it down to the 6kHz peak emphasising any distortion, especially IMD in an amp in a way that is most annoying. That, combined with being headphones that, because of the distance of the drivers from one's ears don't have the same bass emphasis many other headphones do, so some people perceive them as being too thin-sounding. Thin + bright with non-harmonic distortion = irritating to many people.

 

A lot has changed since they were released though.

post #73 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

A lot has changed since they were released though.

What did you have in mind?
post #74 of 308
How's the EQ adventure? I'm a new owner of hd800 myself, got it at couple of days ago. Didn't quite hear any 6kHz peak when sweeping, though it peaked at 5.5 kHz and even more at 7.5 kHz, maybe due to ear canal resonance. Should that 7.5 Hz peak be EQ'ed away in the first place?
Edited by davidsh - 6/29/14 at 3:17pm
post #75 of 308

This is how it looks thus far based on an hour of work with the EQ: 

So far it seems to sound a slight bit dull. Besides, I don't really understand the 9.5 kHz thing, I needed to push it 10 dB to have it as loud as the surrounding frequencies. Hearing loss?

 

The hd800 is modded.

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