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CD3K Woody impressions - Page 3

post #31 of 270
Sovkiller,

You seem to be looking at this mod in a preconceived way: "Tweaks" only marginally effect sound. Adding wood cups to the CD3000 is a "Tweak." Therefore, adding wood cups to the CD3000 will only marginally effect the sound.

While logically valid (in the technical sense), simply defining the woody as a tweak, which has a minor effect on sound, is not very helpful, particularly coming from someone who hasn't heard it.

I can certainly conceive of how changing the cups on the CD3000 could have a pretty large effect on sound. Does it actually? I don't know. The people who have heard it seem to think so. I will reserve judgment until I have the privlege of listening to them myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller
Because IMO you are asking too much from a "tweak", a tweak will give you subtle improvements, here or there, people will call them "day and night", as ususal, but IMO are just this, very subtle improvements, but I have the impression that the change you are looking for is too big...to fall into the "tweak" category
post #32 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by acs236
Sovkiller,

You seem to be looking at this mod in a preconceived way: "Tweaks" only marginally effect sound. Adding wood cups to the CD3000 is a "Tweak." Therefore, adding wood cups to the CD3000 will only marginally effect the sound.

While logically valid (in the technical sense), simply defining the woody as a tweak, which has a minor effect on sound, is not very helpful, particularly coming from someone who hasn't heard it.

I can certainly conceive of how changing the cups on the CD3000 could have a pretty large effect on sound. Does it actually? I don't know. The people who have heard it seem to think so. I will reserve judgment until I have the privlege of listening to them myself.
Sorry, but I'm not trying to influence anybody to try it or not, nor to make someone decided to try it or not, it is a solely responsability of the person, I was just trying to explain why me personally will not be one of the first in jumping on them, and I'm trying to justify why. Unless there is more evidence, I will not do it, and the most important, unless I find a need for them, I will not do it, and to the date I have not found non of the two....but this is just my personal opinion, if it is helpful to others or not, I can't tell you....and I don't mind neither, not always the opinions will serve to a purpose, remember that are just that personal opinions, OK?
post #33 of 270
Sovkiller,

I agree with what you said. I'm certainly not first in line. I'm always skeptical of mods/tweaks -- I fear the slippery slope too. In the end, I wonder if the true benefit of the woodies is cosmetic. I've never been into the whole wood-look anyway. I think the CD3000 sound great as they are. My only point is that I could see these mods having a fairly large effect on the sound -- whether good, bad, or neutral, I cannot say.
post #34 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller
the rear chamber is not connected to the one you hear at all, is not like a ported speaker OK, it works like a sealed enclosure, so the only funtion of the rear chamber is damping the sound behind the driver, but you are not hearing at all what is happening behind the driver, just the effect that this principle of functioning produce over the driver itlsef, right?
Wrong, the driver IS ported. If you look at the right pic, you'll see the multiple ports. The driver housing is slightly raised with rubber bushings to let the sound through to the oval port. The driver also goes to the oval port, but just in the middle and is round, of course. If you look into the earpads, you'll see the driver sticking out at an angle. Feel around the perimeter of the round housing, that's the port. There is actually quite an amount of reflected sound going to your ears. The round driver housing has a cutout in it's sound wall to let sound reflect around the inside surface of the cup, as well as the whole back side being open. If these were indeed non ported cans, I would tend to agree with you and certainly wouldn't be making sawdust.

post #35 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu777
Wrong, the driver IS ported. If you look at the right pic, you'll see the multiple ports. The driver housing is slightly raised with rubber bushings to let the sound through to the oval port. The driver also goes to the oval port, but just in the middle and is round, of course. If you look into the earpads, you'll see the driver sticking out at an angle. Feel around the perimeter of the round housing, that's the port. There is actually quite an amount of reflected sound going to your ears. The round driver housing has a cutout in it's sound wall to let sound reflect around the inside surface of the cup, as well as the whole back side being open. If these were indeed non ported cans, I would tend to agree with you and certainly wouldn't be making sawdust.


Well I wrote a long answer even with some pics, and it was deleted as the forum is having some problems, so this time will brief....take it or leave it...LOL...
This port as you call them IIRC is completely against the wall of the front baffle, and completely covered by this thick cloth, OTOH, there is no space between the driver plastic cylinder, and the whole on the front baffle that we could consider that as a port, even though the clearance is also damped by the black cloth and the foam that is over the driver, if it is a port (in the practice could be) IMO it is pretty well obstructed and damped....the isolators, those three pieces of red rubber IMO, are just there to isolate the vibrations and maybe the resonance from the rear cup, both pieces are extremely close one against the other....IMO there is no port, the diagram in the manual shows the isolators and the mechanism of isolation, but nothing about ports....

But if in fact they are ported, well in that case, it is more logical that the wood will benefit the sound in a greater way, as you will hear what is happening in the rear chamber also, maybe all this mechanism is acting as an aperiodic port, kind of the one dynaudio uses, who knows, but is not a clear port to me....it is pretty well damped, and obstructed....
post #36 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller
Because IMO you are asking too much from a "tweak", a tweak will give you subtle improvements, here or there, people will call them "day and night", as ususal, but IMO are just this, very subtle improvements, but I have the impression that the change you are looking for is too big...to fall into the "tweak" category
I would think that recableing and completely changing the cup material(and also dampening?) would fall more into the major modified area, more than just a tweak.
post #37 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom hankins
I would think that recableing and completely changing the cup material(and also dampening?) would fall more into the major modified area, more than just a tweak.
If you do all this at the same time, maybe....I don't know, I'm curious mayself....
post #38 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller

By the way I have heard the HD600 with, and without, the foam, and the difference (if any) is very subtle also, is not that big as you are trying to point it out....sorry but that was my experience, i was trying ot remove that veil, and that laid back sound, and I was never able to do it....there was no mod that changed that....
I tried it and there was a HUGE difference. It was like two completely different phones. Are you sure you've tried it?
post #39 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gswpete
I tried it and there was a HUGE difference. It was like two completely different phones. Are you sure you've tried it?
No, I'm not sure, maybe I was drunk or stoned...LOL...com'on man, of course I did, not only this, I tried whatever I was told, to make them sound different, and at the end, the CD3000 was the magic solution for me....period....there is no mod that could make the HD600 sound right for me, and for the kind of music I listen to.....period...
post #40 of 270
Sovkiller,
no one is talking about transforming the headphone into a completely different headphone...that is obvious. most of the discussions that go on around here are about small differences and or changes that we as headphone freaks, regard as being larger than they really are. and we are also NOT talking about which headphone fits your preference more (600/650 or CD3000). please don't start with the infamous 600 vs CD3000 war! they have nothing to do with anything right now.

the whole point in bringing up the comparison of the panty hose tweak was to show that materials can affect the sound in sometimes big ways. there is a difference between an HD650 with the stock foam, and an HD650 without the stock foam (go read the thread about the member who hated the 650 at first but now loves them because of the pantyhose mod). i didn't ever say it transforms the headphone nor did i or anyone else say it would turn a headphone you don't like into a headphone you do like. again, that is obvious given the fact that a tweak in of itself means to me, a relatively small change. moreover, when i hear the word tweak used in respect to audio products, i think of slight changes, not huge gigantic changes.
i agree with tom in that the tweaks Xanadu777 is performing with the cables and wood cups are beyond the category of tweaking and should be considered as flat out altering the headphone (this is regardless of how many "tweaks" you combine at once).

anyways, those things mentioned above are far from the point of the main issue at hand...they are just tangents. so, judging from what i see in Xanadu777's pictures of the inside of a CD3k, any material change/swap will result in at least some sort of sonic difference because of the many ports (it does not matter about what material it is covering the port holes, they are still holes that let the sound through). that is all a person is after when he/she tweaks an audio product. with that, added to the fact that a woodied out CD3k looks absolutely incredible and stunning, i would at least give it a try. but that's just me. sov, i realize you have a different opinion, but don't go around saying it won't really affect the sound, especially when you haven't heard it yet.

PS>>>please try to use periods. they really help make your posts a lot more clear and coherant. thanx!
post #41 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeplin
Sovkiller,
no one is talking about transforming the headphone into a completely different headphone...that is obvious. most of the discussions that go on around here are about small differences and or changes that we as headphone freaks, regard as being larger than they really are. and we are also NOT talking about which headphone fits your preference more (600/650 or CD3000). please don't start with the infamous 600 vs CD3000 war! they have nothing to do with anything right now.

the whole point in bringing up the comparison of the panty hose tweak was to show that materials can affect the sound in sometimes big ways. there is a difference between an HD650 with the stock foam, and an HD650 without the stock foam (go read the thread about the member who hated the 650 at first but now loves them because of the pantyhose mod). i didn't ever say it transforms the headphone nor did i or anyone else say it would turn a headphone you don't like into a headphone you do like. again, that is obvious given the fact that a tweak in of itself means to me, a relatively small change. moreover, when i hear the word tweak used in respect to audio products, i think of slight changes, not huge gigantic changes.
i agree with tom in that the tweaks Xanadu777 is performing with the cables and wood cups is beyond the category of tweaking and should be considered as flat out altering the headphone (this is regardless of how many "tweaks" you combine at once).

anyways, those things mentioned above are far from the point of the main issue at hand...they are just tangents. so, judging from what i see in Xanadu777's pictures of the inside of a CD3k, any material change/swap will result in at least some sort of sonic difference because of the many ports (it does not matter about what material it is covering the port holes, they are still holes that let the sound through). that is all a person is after when he/she tweaks an audio product. with that, added to the fact that a woodied out CD3k looks absolutely incredible and stunning, i would at least give it a try. but that's just me. sov, i realize you have a different opinion, but don't go around saying it won't really affect the sound, especially when you haven't heard it yet.

PS>>>please try to use periods. they really help make your posts a lot more clear and coherant. thanx!
Once you open a CD3000 yourself, you will see what we are talking about. IIRC all those ports are completely covered, and not only by the cloth, also by about 1/8'' or more of plastic, that completely seat over them. IIRC there is no holes or space for the air to come through, maybe in the beginning those were intended to be left open, like the ones on the Senns, and for some reason they decided later to cover them, I don't know. maybe they work as an aperiodic port, but I would not consider this enclosure as a ported one, OTOH the picture does not shows how this two parts assemble, FYI, one covers completely the other...

OTOH, I do not stated this comment about the HD600 (not 650, I have never heard this one) as to define my preferences one more time, you are all sick of those threads, same as I do, but just to clear that the changes are not that big, as if they were that big, maybe I would liked the HD600, and this was not the case, so the changes IME and IMO were extremely subtle (if any)....

About the cable, for sure it will be a great mod, the stock is nothing fancy, and this is not a secret, it will be a hell of a change, but for some and improvement, but maybe others find the changes not that good, if they like it great, (and maybe I will do, after I try them, BTW I never refused that idea), just that for now, I can't afford it, and honestly, me personally, do not feel the need of it. I'm extremely pleased with the "stock" sound...

Once I hear a CD3000 with those mods, I would be more than happy to state if I like or not those, for now I don't know how big or small the changes could be, neither you, so we both are just "assuming" and "guessing", for good or bad, right? You believe they will be big, I believe they will be subtle, but at least I have the headphone in front of me, and had open them a few times, and I have an idea of what we were talking here, see the difference?

BTW, I don't know if you do not like the CD3000, nor have them, why are you so interested in this mods ???

BTW, I prefer to try them first, even Larry made me an offer yesterday, and I'm seriously considering it now......period, hearing is believing...!!!!
post #42 of 270
let us know when you get your set sduibek... it will be interesting to hear a first hand unbiased opinion on this mod

xanadu... there was some question as to whether the cups are angled at all [like the stock CD3K's and the R10's]... you may have answered already, but if so I missed it... are your woodies angled? and if not, why did you make this change?

lol... are your woodies angled... it never grows old
post #43 of 270
Not to argue with Sov, ah what the heck, heheh, everyone else seems to. Sov knows I like him anyway. Since I have the parts in my hands, or did a second ago, I can see exactly what is up. The space is small, but it is not flush to the housing. The rubber bushings hold the driver housing above the yellow foam ring, to allow it to pass wind, so to speak. The yellow foam ring is where the cup sound pressure flows through. First it goes through the slits, which can be blown through quite easily, then the yellow foam and then out beside the driver. The oval hole is 65mm by 56mm and the driver housing tapers to 50mm. That's about 10% air volume space. Sony did not put those slits, foam and leave an opening for some abandoned plan. They put the maximum amount of slits in the driver housing to still have enough strength to keep it's integrity.

Now to ponder these questions, hmmm... You think they would put those slits in for nothing? You think they would put a cloth like breathable backing for nothing? You think they would put in the yellow foam ring for nothing? You think they would leave space around the driver for nothing? I guess they just want to spend more money for useless things, that were just a passing thought that didn't work out? I have the parts in my lap, I've spent 100's of hours tweaking these, there are indeed ports that work in these headphones.

They could have just as easily housed the parts together tight, no rubber ring bushings, no cloth, no foam, no oval, for an unported sound and saved some cash doing it. If you think Sony has a bunch of idiots putting in parts, slits, cloth, foam and ovals that have no purpose, so be it, your entitled to think, hear, speak your own conclusions.

Quote:
xanadu... there was some question as to whether the cups are angled at all [like the stock CD3K's and the R10's]... you may have answered already, but if so I missed it... are your woodies angled? and if not, why did you make this change?
On the inside? They are angled a little different than stock inside, the thicker ones are similar to the R10, though I can't be sure if the bottom is flat or angled in the R10. I can do both, currently I'm doing flat. That doesn't mean flat is better or not, I'm not sure at this point, or if it really even matters.
post #44 of 270
Xanadu,could you post some profile images of the thick cups?I wouldn't want to end up lookin like this
post #45 of 270
These look great!

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