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Philips Fidelio X2?! - Page 5

post #61 of 871
Yep, not one noty again, tighter, more detail, tactile.
post #62 of 871

Define "grainy" - I;ve heard this a lot around audio forums and threads on other boards and i have the X1 both with stock cable and V-Moda and others and found no "grain". I also have the AKG Q701 modded and don't notice any grain difference between the X1 and Q701. Yes the AKGs are more detailed and signature is different especially in the mids and lows but the "grain" doesn't change, whatever that is!

post #63 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonzeanse View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post
 

Philips really only need to do 2 things on the X2.

 

- Removable earpads.

- Tighten the bass just a little more.

 

Just 2 very simple things and they'll have one of the best $300 headphone ever (and if the trend follows, near $200 rather).


The treble is still grainy and needs to be cleaned up. Although I bet there are people who don't agree with that. :rolleyes:

For example me. Please describe more accurately what You mean by that? I`ve tested with all my sources and compared with all my cans and also find no grainy highs. Also using custom cable and amping with X1.
Littlebit smoothed but detailed clean highs with no sibilance/fatigue  ...but definitely not dark, muddy or grainy. But of course everyone has own subjective opinion ;)


Edited by CoiL - 7/23/14 at 12:28pm
post #64 of 871

Well, if they come out before Aug 3rd, I can return my X1s and get X2s. Here is hoping they are better.

post #65 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post
 

For example me. Please describe more accurately what You mean by that? I`ve tested with all my sources and compared with all my cans and also find no grainy highs. Also using custom cable and amping with X1.
Littlebit smoothed but detailed clean highs with no sibilance/fatigue  ...but definitely not dark, muddy or grainy. But of course everyone has own subjective opinion ;)


It's not as bad as I think you think I'm saying. There's no sibilance or fatigue, but I can hear a certain graininess in the treble. It's just not silky smooth, like there's some kind of breakup or just a bit of edge to it. I'm not using a custom cable because the resistance on the stock cable is so ridiculously low that you can't convince me that it's causing a problem - and that's if you even have one of those notorious (for whatever reason) high-resistance cables.

 

I took your advice from the X1 thread and decided to use my Xonar DG to amplify it. I think you might have been right about it bringing out the bass, but that had nothing to do with the stock cable. I know this because I actually have tested out another cable and I heard no difference from the same source (my onboard audio). Highs seem unaffected to me. This could be enclosure-borne.

post #66 of 871
The grain is definetly there on the X1. It's not sibilance, nor hot treble. It just isn't a clean sound in the high frequencies.

It's similar to the difference you hear between a low but rate file and a high bit rate. That is my way to define "grain" I guess.
post #67 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonzeanse View Post
 


It's not as bad as I think you think I'm saying. There's no sibilance or fatigue, but I can hear a certain graininess in the treble. It's just not silky smooth, like there's some kind of breakup or just a bit of edge to it. I'm not using a custom cable because the resistance on the stock cable is so ridiculously low that you can't convince me that it's causing a problem - and that's if you even have one of those notorious (for whatever reason) high-resistance cables.

 

I took your advice from the X1 thread and decided to use my Xonar DG to amplify it. I think you might have been right about it bringing out the bass, but that had nothing to do with the stock cable. I know this because I actually have tested out another cable and I heard no difference from the same source (my onboard audio). Highs seem unaffected to me. This could be enclosure-borne.


I agree with you, although this is through some songs. The treble could be a little more smoother but it all depends on what is being listened to.

post #68 of 871
My X2 is on the way. Will be here on friday (I hope so).
post #69 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baycode View Post

My X2 is on the way. Will be here on friday (I hope so).
I think I speak for everyone here; we want:

  1. Pictures
  2. Cable impedance measurements
  3. Ear pad removal assessment
  4. SQ impressions
post #70 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonzeanse View Post

 

...but that had nothing to do with the stock cable. 

I`m not the only one who says it`s the cable exchange that makes that difference in bass & kick tightness: http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/4320#post_10475263

Amping even improves it more but I doubt if Xonar DG is good for amping X1.

Quote:
I know this because I actually have tested out another cable and I heard no difference from the same source (my onboard audio). Highs seem unaffected to me. 

Now, that`s not a good method to draw conclusions. Onboard audio is not something adequate for making judgments. 

Quote:
It's just not silky smooth, like there's some kind of breakup or just a bit of edge to it.

It`s "silky smoothness" depends pretty much from your DAC/Amp. With Aune T1 it has most smoothness to it (depending on tube can be pretty silky smooth), next comes DX50 and then ELE EL-D02 DAC. I don`t know if it`s Your Xonar DG, onboard audio, cable or source files etc. but I really have not experienced any "breakups" or "edge" regarding to X1 highs section. Like I told - littlebit smoothed but clear but with no sibilance, fatigue or graininess. Well, this is only my subjective opinion ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwpritchett View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baycode View Post

My X2 is on the way. Will be here on friday (I hope so).
I think I speak for everyone here; we want:
 
  1. Pictures
  2. Cable impedance measurements
  3. Ear pad removal assessment
  4. SQ impressions

+1 

post #71 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post
 

I`m not the only one who says it`s the cable exchange that makes that difference in bass & kick tightness: http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/4320#post_10475263

Amping even improves it more but I doubt if Xonar DG is good for amping X1.

Now, that`s not a good method to draw conclusions. Onboard audio is not something adequate for making judgments. 

It`s "silky smoothness" depends pretty much from your DAC/Amp. With Aune T1 it has most smoothness to it (depending on tube can be pretty silky smooth), next comes DX50 and then ELE EL-D02 DAC. I don`t know if it`s Your Xonar DG, onboard audio, cable or source files etc. but I really have not experienced any "breakups" or "edge" regarding to X1 highs section. Like I told - littlebit smoothed but clear but with no sibilance, fatigue or graininess. Well, this is only my subjective opinion ;)


So what, I have to spend extra money to arbitrarily prove a conclusion that I, myself, can hear? Besides, I'd like to point out your post from the Fidelio X1 thread.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post
 

Xonar DG should do ok with X1 but separate dedicated amp/dac would be probably better. I personally find ELE EL-D02 DAC/Amp (recapped with ELNA SilmicII) to be good and cheap solution for X1. Aune T1 is another league of course but ELE matches with X1 suprisingly good.


So apparently, as long as my conclusion proves you right, using something other than onboard audio works. However, the moment that I decide my opinion still stands, the Xonar DG loses its ability to properly amplify my headphones? Hmm... Moving the goalpost.

 

I find that listening to headphones - believe it or not - is a good way to draw conclusions about something. Furthermore, for as many people that believe you about swapping out the cable making a difference, just as many people seem to agree that the treble on the Fidelio X1 is slightly artificial - the very same statement I am trying to make. I took your advice and amplified these headphones anyway, despite a measured difference of ~1 ohm. All you've done in that post was quote a bunch of people who said the impedance was higher, something I was never saying was wrong. Yet you never once proved or measured any difference in the sound, however little, using the stock cable versus an aftermarket one.

 

All your argument amounts to is an ad populum fantasy that does nothing to convince the reader with fact. Sound quality is not equivalent to impedance, regardless of whatever you might think, and that is fact. The ultimate irony of this whole situation is that I think you might have been right about the Fidelio X1 benefiting from an amp, as I hear slightly more bass control with the assistance of a Xonar DG.

 

But hey, that is only my subjective opinion. ;)


Edited by Dragonzeanse - 7/23/14 at 4:41pm
post #72 of 871

Hmmm... while I do kinda agree the grain is there on the X1's treble, it isn't really very significant that it detoriates the highs. Moving the Aune X1 Pro did help it quite noticeably, but yeah... maybe that's another area where Philips can look at although I personally don't think it is a very significant issue, at least not as much as having a no-brainer removable pads option.

post #73 of 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post

Hmmm... while I do kinda agree the grain is there on the X1's treble, it isn't really very significant that it detoriates the highs. Moving the Aune X1 Pro did help it quite noticeably, but yeah... maybe that's another area where Philips can look at although I personally don't think it is a very significant issue, at least not as much as having a no-brainer removable pads option.

It isn't a major gripe. They're still my daily driver, but I think it's worth addressing. No reason not to try. But I would sooner have replaceable pads than perfect treble, Philips. frown.gif
post #74 of 871
They can also stand to make the leather band's arch narrower/longer, for those with bigger heads. As it stands some of us had to bend the leather band so the headband wouldn't crash against the band, limiting how far they can reach certain ears.
post #75 of 871

Recall the famous L2 review:

 

Quote:
 The sound is extremely clean, zero grain, one of the blackest background I’ve heard (think Fostex TH900 level black background — ahead of all the other dynamic drivers). In a way it’s very clear and clean sounding like say the Hifiman HE-6/HE-500 but the L2 is smoother than them and is MUCH easier to drive.

 

The L2 probably surpasses the X1 in technical terms and would be the one to beat if the X2 is to reclaim top spot in the Fidelio range. If that's the case then I can see good deals on the X1 to come.

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