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Best headphones for rock and electronic? - Page 3

post #31 of 42

When everyone raves about how great Grado is at detail, I'm unable to shake the feeling that most headphones would sound like they have greater detail if you eliminated most of the bass because, well, you're able to hear the mids and treble more clearly since that's all there is. When the airwaves aren't pulsating with deep bass, you're much more able to hear finer points on instruments in the higher spectrum. I mean that's just how sound works.

 

It's no coincidence that the headphones everyone says have the best "clarity" and "detail" are the most treble-heavy. If you tilt headphones toward the bass, it'll sound muffled, like you have hearing loss. Tilt it toward the treble and it sounds sparkly. That might be why it's interpreted that way: hearing loss is typified by losses at the higher register. If you've ever been too close to an explosion or amplifier at a concert you know how the top end of the spectrum vanishes for a while until your ears recover. The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice. 

 

It might sound like I'm nitpicking, I just feel like it's worth saying that in the case of particularly the cheaper Grados they don't have great clarity, they're just treble monsters. 

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

When everyone raves about how great Grado is at detail, I'm unable to shake the feeling that most headphones would sound like they have greater detail if you eliminated most of the bass because, well, you're able to hear the mids and treble more clearly since that's all there is. When the airwaves aren't pulsating with deep bass, you're much more able to hear finer points on instruments in the higher spectrum. I mean that's just how sound works.

 

It's no coincidence that the headphones everyone says have the best "clarity" and "detail" are the most treble-heavy. If you tilt headphones toward the bass, it'll sound muffled, like you have hearing loss. Tilt it toward the treble and it sounds sparkly. That might be why it's interpreted that way: hearing loss is typified by losses at the higher register. If you've ever been too close to an explosion or amplifier at a concert you know how the top end of the spectrum vanishes for a while until your ears recover. The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice. 

 

It might sound like I'm nitpicking, I just feel like it's worth saying that in the case of particularly the cheaper Grados they don't have great clarity, they're just treble monsters. 


I think you are absolutely right, I think that Sennheiser to Name one know exactly to achive the best compromise that is why some of their models has become classics.

post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

When everyone raves about how great Grado is at detail, I'm unable to shake the feeling that most headphones would sound like they have greater detail if you eliminated most of the bass because, well, you're able to hear the mids and treble more clearly since that's all there is. When the airwaves aren't pulsating with deep bass, you're much more able to hear finer points on instruments in the higher spectrum. I mean that's just how sound works.

 

It's no coincidence that the headphones everyone says have the best "clarity" and "detail" are the most treble-heavy. If you tilt headphones toward the bass, it'll sound muffled, like you have hearing loss. Tilt it toward the treble and it sounds sparkly. That might be why it's interpreted that way: hearing loss is typified by losses at the higher register. If you've ever been too close to an explosion or amplifier at a concert you know how the top end of the spectrum vanishes for a while until your ears recover. The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice. 

 

It might sound like I'm nitpicking, I just feel like it's worth saying that in the case of particularly the cheaper Grados they don't have great clarity, they're just treble monsters. 


one mans treble monster....is anothers mans gem  :p

post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

You're almost certainly referring to the midbass. Here, take a look at this:

 

 

Notice how they all have a hump around 100Hz and in the case of the rs1 (ostenibly a premium piece) the subbass absolutely vanishes. Keep in mind that headphones with only a slightly boosted bass down in the low frequencies will sound thin, but what we're seeing here is NO low frequencies. In the case of the 325 and rs1 everything under 50Hz is actually held back, and even the PS500 is yanked down by 30. I do feel the need mention, again, that bass just ON that 0 line would be thin and weak, let alone the cataclysmic drop we're seeing between 100 and 10 (which makes the subbass sound even more feeble).

 

I really want to like Grado headphones. I think they're gorgeous headphones, they feel amazing in the hands, I think the way they're made kicks ass. I just cannot imagine listening to the dang things for like 95% of music. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
 

 

HeadRoom's rig tends to get more roll-off on open-backs that what they seem to have in listening tests.

 

Plus it depends on who's measuring anyway, for example:

 

ryumatsuba:

SR325 (goldie)

 

 

goldenears.net:

SR60i

 

 

The rest of us Grado fans don't have problems getting bass out of our headphones, then there are modifications or alternate earpads to get even more for those who are interested.  Even the low bass.

Is this not good for rock? Throw the 325's out but I think the SR80i's to the RS1's and 2's are good for rock, rock needs midbass for the kick drum punch 60-100hz and mids and highs for the guitars and vocals and cymbals, idk why people always say grados are treble crazy, the 325's are but I never find the other grados harsh like I do some IEM's. The other factor is they are a really "fast" headphone, again good for most rock.

 

I would never recommend them for rap or techno but the do a good job for most rock and metal IMO.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byronb View Post
 

Not sure which Senn's you have heard to make that observation, but it isn't a pair I have tried.

Like the 4X8 and 4X9 headphones, no bass and the Shure 240, 440, 840 and 940's again no bass at all.

post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

When everyone raves about how great Grado is at detail, I'm unable to shake the feeling that most headphones would sound like they have greater detail if you eliminated most of the bass because, well, you're able to hear the mids and treble more clearly since that's all there is. When the airwaves aren't pulsating with deep bass, you're much more able to hear finer points on instruments in the higher spectrum. I mean that's just how sound works.

 

It's no coincidence that the headphones everyone says have the best "clarity" and "detail" are the most treble-heavy. If you tilt headphones toward the bass, it'll sound muffled, like you have hearing loss. Tilt it toward the treble and it sounds sparkly. That might be why it's interpreted that way: hearing loss is typified by losses at the higher register. If you've ever been too close to an explosion or amplifier at a concert you know how the top end of the spectrum vanishes for a while until your ears recover. The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice. 

 

It might sound like I'm nitpicking, I just feel like it's worth saying that in the case of particularly the cheaper Grados they don't have great clarity, they're just treble monsters. 

I do agree to a certain extent (and so does Tyll at innerfidelity), grados, as you can see, have a boosted 2k area and a range from about 4-10k with any speaker if you boost a certain range with an EQ you are going to noticed more in that range, and as you said "The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice." now my D5000's, SE535's and the Momentums are still very detailed headphones and this is also why I don't like the 325's (I feel like the scraping of guitar strings is louder than the note being played). I wouldn't say the top but the most information is for sure in the 5khz-12khz range, which is also the range we hear best.

 

They also have a bass boost from around 55hz to300hz, sooooo..............

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvlyminck View Post
 


I think you are absolutely right, I think that Sennheiser to Name one know exactly to achive the best compromise that is why some of their models has become classics.

HD600's, 650's 800's, HD25 1-ii, Momentums yes I would agree but people also didn't seem to like the HD700's or Amperiors very well...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
 


one mans treble monster....is anothers mans gem  :p

I guess lol, still wouldn't call most grado's a treble monster, the like 325's or DT990's.

post #36 of 42

Sennheiser tried to downsize the 800 to a more affordable 700, but there are still beaten by their own HD650 classic, things might Change however as I predict a fall in Price for the 700, a friend of mine however who have both 650 and 700 thinks the 700 is the better, but this all Comes back to personal Preference. As far as Grado goes I only have the inear GR10, and lstening to some electronic passages on the "otherworld" Album by Peter Hammill-Gary Lucas simply hurts, but at medium volume listening to acoustic jazz, the Unplugged complete by REM the GR10 just Sound fab. which lead us to the conclusion that the Sennheiser classics and future classics are more Allrounders,which I think is great, considering the Price you have to pay for them. The Grado GR10 sounds only fab with certain Musics which make them a no go at their Price 399 Euro in the EU.Lucky enough I could buy them second Hand for a friendly Price.The Amperiors are not Mainstream and more likened by People listening to certain styles of Musics,in Europe they are populair amongst dj´s so I guess they are an acquired taste.

post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
 

I do agree to a certain extent (and so does Tyll at innerfidelity), grados, as you can see, have a boosted 2k area and a range from about 4-10k with any speaker if you boost a certain range with an EQ you are going to noticed more in that range, and as you said "The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice." now my D5000's, SE535's and the Momentums are still very detailed headphones and this is also why I don't like the 325's (I feel like the scraping of guitar strings is louder than the note being played). I wouldn't say the top but the most information is for sure in the 5khz-12khz range, which is also the range we hear best.

 

They also have a bass boost from around 55hz to300hz, sooooo..............

 

HD600's, 650's 800's, HD25 1-ii, Momentums yes I would agree but people also didn't seem to like the HD700's or Amperiors very well...

 

I guess lol, still wouldn't call most grado's a treble monster, the like 325's or DT990's.


I also would not call them treble monsters at all.....the RS1 is a beautiful sounding headphone...as are most grados that I have heard.

post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
 


I also would not call them treble monsters at all.....the RS1 is a beautiful sounding headphone...as are most grados that I have heard.

 

They're beautifully if you REALLY like treble. And that's fine. Many do. Me, the RS1 was the only time I actually took a headphone off of my head and looked at it, thinking "THIS is a flagship?"

 

I still want to buy a pair, admittedly. 

post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

They're beautifully if you REALLY like treble. And that's fine. Many do. Me, the RS1 was the only time I actually took a headphone off of my head and looked at it, thinking "THIS is a flagship?"

 

I still want to buy a pair, admittedly. 


That makes no sense...but hey...whatever

post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
 


That makes no sense...but hey...whatever

 

I don't like the sound, but man. They're beautiful, and they're a product of hand-crafting in a family-run business that never sold out or collapsed on itself. They're marvels of headphone engineering. I'd love a pair someday just to have. 

post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

When everyone raves about how great Grado is at detail, I'm unable to shake the feeling that most headphones would sound like they have greater detail if you eliminated most of the bass because, well, you're able to hear the mids and treble more clearly since that's all there is. When the airwaves aren't pulsating with deep bass, you're much more able to hear finer points on instruments in the higher spectrum. I mean that's just how sound works.

 

It's no coincidence that the headphones everyone says have the best "clarity" and "detail" are the most treble-heavy. If you tilt headphones toward the bass, it'll sound muffled, like you have hearing loss. Tilt it toward the treble and it sounds sparkly. That might be why it's interpreted that way: hearing loss is typified by losses at the higher register. If you've ever been too close to an explosion or amplifier at a concert you know how the top end of the spectrum vanishes for a while until your ears recover. The "details" of a sound are all at the top. That's where you have the scrape of a finger on guitar strings, the pluck of the strings, scratches in a singing voice. 

 

It might sound like I'm nitpicking, I just feel like it's worth saying that in the case of particularly the cheaper Grados they don't have great clarity, they're just treble monsters. 

 

I'm going to have to partially disagree here...

 

 

With respect to treble, true high fidelity IMO from (headphones or speakers) is when the high end is tending towards 'softness' (as opposed to piercing,

harsh, overbearing) while at the same time preserving and reproducing all available detail.

 

 

But I think it is true, as you say, that many if not most confuse elevated or pronounced treble for "clarity" and "detail".

 

I like to think that here on Head-Fi, though, we're at least a bit more experienced and thoughtful in this regard.  Generally.

post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazex View Post
 

 

I'm going to have to partially disagree here...

 

 

With respect to treble, true high fidelity IMO from (headphones or speakers) is when the high end is tending towards 'softness' (as opposed to piercing,

harsh, overbearing) while at the same time preserving and reproducing all available detail.

 

 

But I think it is true, as you say, that many if not most confuse elevated or pronounced treble for "clarity" and "detail".

 

I like to think that here on Head-Fi, though, we're at least a bit more experienced and thoughtful in this regard.  Generally.

 

That's what I mean, yeah. People hear that sharp treble and since that's the range where the "details" exist that people listen for they call a sharper headphone "detailed". Indeed, a good headphone would soften that a touch to avoid being painful because our ears ARE very susceptible to those frequencies. More so at some frequencies than others. That's why headphones get all weird at jagged in the curve at the top end. 

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