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What Happened to Head-Fi? (Rant) - Page 7

post #91 of 215
@cb3723
I mentioned calling people out, and you've called me out for not looking Beats, so here's a quick clarification. I'm not a Beats hater, I don't waste my time needlessly bashing them. I just tell people they're not my thing, and leave it at that. I'm fact, that post was the first fine I've mentioned them on this site AKAIK. I don't blame people for buying them, there's many redeeming qualities that many overlook... Bluetooth, NC, warranty, etc.
But, ruling them out as I've done is because I know the market they're pushing for, and I'm not that market.
post #92 of 215

 

LMFAO!!!!

 

That was awesome!!!!  :beerchug:

post #93 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by livedavid View Post
 

Hello,

 

While this may be my first post, I assure you I am not new to the world of headphones or this forum.  I started to really get into this hobby around 2000, but had some interest in the late '90's.  At the time Headwize was the authoritative forum.  Then Head-fi appeared and grew.  It was a great place where people formed their own opinions and shared with the community.  I lurked for a few years.  I was getting a lot out of it, but not contributing.  Maybe I was selfish, maybe I thought I had nothing to offer, maybe I thought people were more knowledgeable than myself?  I do not have a good reason for being a member for almost 10 years and making this my first post.

 

I am not trying to go off on a rant, but I think it is important for people coming to this great hobby to understand that there are many great opinions here, but there is equally a lot of misinformation.  How can someone recommend something - a headphone, a DAP, a DAC, an amp or even a cable without even trying it?  How can they dismiss it?  This forum is filled with people with thousands of posts posturing and declaring an opinion that is not even their own as a fact.  The headphone market has grown over the last two decades (thanks mostly to Apple and Beats) which has brought about pseudo-experts.  For the people who have enjoyed this community for years, they have learned who they can trust, but often a very vocal or prolific user does not have the knowledge or experience to make a thoughtful recommendation.  Music is personal, sound reproduction is personal, our ears are all different.  There is too much regurgitated circle jerking information here.

 

I don't know if this post will be deleted, but my whole point is that sometimes it is best not to talk, but to listen.  Please don't make a headphone recommendation to someone if you have not owned the headphone in question.  Listening to something in a store or at a meet does not qualify you as experienced with that item.  I have owned or own most TOTL headphones HD800, LCD-2, TH900, T1, ED8 and many others, yet I have not felt the need to pass my opinion off as fact.  Please be considerate of others and don't just copypasta other people's thoughts or give praise to your latest purchase when you have nothing to compare it to.

 

This rant is over.  I will continue to lurk, but I want to thank all of the experts on here for the great advice and recommendations over the years and let you know how difficult it is to sort through all of the BS to find you...

 

Join Date:

10/20/04
First Post Date:

6/10/14

 

All you ever do is complain in the 10 years you have been here!

 

But this post is a total reminder for me to be more considerate when posting.

post #94 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Jester View Post

 

1. More moderators, especially people who have shown that they can control themselves and keep the forum a FAIR and ENJOYABLE place.

 

2. EVERYONE has their CURRENT gear in their profile.  At least this will help identify those who are parroting information or just plain trolling.

 

3. (I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread) There should be a "vote to remove post" on threads.  Once a post receives enough votes it is placed on a list for Moderators to remove. (I assume that is the same as report post?)

 

I'm picking on these three, so forgive me.

 

I've been "short term banned" already. You wanna know what my offense was? I got in an incredibly minor argument with someone in the Beats thread. I didn't use any vulgarity, I didn't call them anything offensive. Literally, this post got me BANNED FOR A $%@#$ING WEEK:

 

 

No vulgarity, no offensive name calling. Just that. I've gotten warnings for using the word "dingbat" and "ignorant" and mods have called me rude and abusive "without repent" for post such as that. If anything, this is one of the most heavily OVER-moderated forums I've been a part of to the point of it being stifling. I can't even joke around with people freely because I'm afraid of "offending" someone. It's like trying to hang out with your friend while his girlfriend and her 4 year old are in the room and she keeps getting mad at you for saying "fart".

 

Point 2 would just show current gear, not all gear ever, and it doesn't include what people have used and tried but didn't buy. So basically you'd be accusing someone of trolling if they owned headphone X for a month and sold it because they couldn't stand how it sounded, or if they've done test driving with them. 

 

Side point: I do not accept the opinion of anyone who says you need to spend more than an hour with headphones to "know" how you like them. Same with "100 hours of burn-in". This is just flim flam and a way for people to discount the opinions of others.

 

Point 3 would turn this forum into a place where it's impossible to speak out against the hivemind. If you have an unpopular opinion it would be decimated by the fanboys and bombard the mod queue would be CRAMMED with nonsense

 

What I'm saying is that this isn't such a widespread problem is requires massive moderator work. Frankly I hate it when mods are brought in for dumb stuff. We're grown ups, right? We have reading comprehension and (ostensibly) at least basic social skills, right? So if you see someone being an idiot, tell them flat-up and explain what they're doing wrong. If they refuse to accept it and get genuinely troll-mode, THEN report them. 

 

What really concerns me here is that I see this less as an effort to clean up the salient issue of people discussing things they have no experience with (which is true but so ridiculously not unique to HF it's hilarious), and more an attempt to declare anyone who rocks the boat a "troll" and have the mods sweep in like mommy to make the big mean jerkface go away. There are members here that I've gone to the throat with and we never used that report button because... guess what? We're people. People disagree, people argue. Not only does it happen, but it's not even something to get in a twist over. 

 

I've been a member on some truly "wild west" forums over the years and quite literally the only time I ever used the "report to mod" button was when someone was posting personal information and encouraging other members to go after me. It would be facking stupid of me to suggest HF operate on that level (that's why I left that place years ago), but a medium does exist between that and handing out suspensions for "you're dumb". 

 

Remember, the only person who thinks your opinion is well informed and worthwhile is you. Every person you yell at for being a troll thinks the same of you. Such is life.  

post #95 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post

@cb3723
I mentioned calling people out, and you've called me out for not looking Beats, so here's a quick clarification. I'm not a Beats hater, I don't waste my time needlessly bashing them. I just tell people they're not my thing, and leave it at that. I'm fact, that post was the first fine I've mentioned them on this site AKAIK. I don't blame people for buying them, there's many redeeming qualities that many overlook... Bluetooth, NC, warranty, etc.
But, ruling them out as I've done is because I know the market they're pushing for, and I'm not that market.

Exactly - different strokes for different folks smily_headphones1.gif

At heart I'm more basshead, but my tastes do extend broader and I have quite an eclectic taste in headphones and personally appreciate different sound signatures from different models and makes relevant to different genres of music they best suit and I listen to.

Grado cans seem to be either loved or loathed and after watching a YT video showing where they are manufactured in Brooklyn with their family run history and getting some Grado owners opinions, I'm quite intrigued to hear one of their models for myself as I've also read some very differing reviews of this brand also, so I agree with the OP and other posts here in physically experiencing a headphone, hands on, or any other piece of audio equipment is ultimately best, as advice given even from owners of whatever make or model with experience may not match up to others expectations.
Edited by cb3723 - 6/14/14 at 7:59am
post #96 of 215
Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

 

 


 

 



No vulgarity, no offensive name calling. Just that. I've gotten warnings for using the word "dingbat" and "ignorant" and mods have called me rude and abusive "without repent" for post such as that. If anything, this is one of the most heavily OVER-moderated forums I've been a part of to the point of it being stifling. I can't even joke around with people freely because I'm afraid of "offending" someone. It's like trying to hang out with your friend while his girlfriend and her 4 year old are in the room and she keeps getting mad at you for saying "fart".



 





 



I've noticed that wherever you chose to post, arguments erupt and threads get derailed. 



I'm not surprised you got banned...but in your head I'm sure you think you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.



The funny thing is that you are the perfect example of what the OP is talking about in his rant. 




 



When you chose not to be abrasive, your posts are actually decent. 


Edited by elvergun - 6/14/14 at 8:44am
post #97 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvergun View Post

I've noticed that wherever you chose to post, arguments erupt and threads get derailed. 


I'm not surprised you got banned...but in your head I'm sure you think you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

The funny thing is that you are the perfect example of what the OP is talking about in his rant. 


When you chose not to be abrasive, your post are actually decent. 

I think SomeDudeGuy is an excellent poster and makes for some intelligent debate.

I understand how he may come across as abrasive at times, but largely I admire him for not been afraid to call it as he sees it.

SDG is one member I particularly enjoy reading his post contributions, it is refreshing compared to some of the mod kissing high-5 buddy posts I've seen that can dull the senses in there banality at times wink.gif
post #98 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvergun View Post
 

 

I've noticed that wherever you chose to post, arguments erupt and threads get derailed. 

 

 

I'm not surprised you got banned...but in your head I'm sure you think you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

The funny thing is that you are the perfect example of what the OP is talking about in his rant. 

 

 

When you chose not to be abrasive, your post are actually decent. 

 

Man, I'm just some toolbox with a laptop. That's all I am and that's all I claim to be. Now, you seem to think that I'm "what's wrong with Head-Fi" or whatever, which... well that makes you the arrogant/deluded one (oops, might get banned for that one, too).

 

I can be abrasive, and I can be opinionated. I don't deny this nor am I going to apologize for it. However, you'll also notice that, just about universally, the posts that got me in trouble were in response to someone else bashing something needlessly and in an inflammatory fashion. I got in trouble three times for arguing with a Beats basher and twice over someone Mac bashing. I have never, NEVER launched an offensive against anyone. Go ahead. Find one time I did it. I'll wait.

 

Wait, you might be able to fine one. A while ago I got stupid with HawaiiBadboy but... surprise surprise, he was a cool dude about it and didn't take it to heart. He did, however, call me a dumbass and it was well deserved. In fact, HBB was banned and that was ALSO crap. I'm glad he returned, dude's one of the very few people on here who knows his ish and will call people out for being an idiot. And keep in mind, he and I do not often agree. 

 

It's kind of a pattern. Person A goes "this is overpriced crap and people who buy it are brainless morons". I respond with "you're a friggin' idiot, dude". I get in trouble. Maybe it's because I refuse to use the report button unless someone is being wildly racist/bigoted/abusive and so instead I GET reported.

 

It's not that I think I'm right. Far from it. I'm a fallible human being just like anyone else. What ruffles my petticoat is that I will not, under any circumstances, report someone to the mods because we got into an argument and they said mean stuff to me. It happens. We ARE human beings. We get passionate about what we're talking about, tempers flare, and after it's all over there's no hard feelings. Maybe it's because I bounced in bars for years and I know the dynamic of getting into a fistfight with someone and then sharing beers with them afterwards. Hard to say. You know I've actually gotten more awesome PM conversations with people I've fought with than others? Funny how that works.

 

I like it here. I like headphones. I like audio. I like talking with people who like headphones and audio. What I don't like is that we can't talk like human beings about it. We have to put everything through the "don't make baby cry" filter. It's aggravating and it fosters more frustration than it alleviates.


Edited by SomeGuyDude - 6/14/14 at 8:49am
post #99 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post


I think SomeDudeGuy is an excellent poster and makes for some intelligent debate.

I understand how he may come across as abrasive at times, but largely I admire him for not been afraid to call it as he sees it.

SDG is one member I particularly enjoy reading his post contributions, it is refreshing compared to some of the mod kissing high-5 buddy posts I've seen that can dull the senses in there banality at times wink.gif

 

post #100 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
 

 

That is one thing that bugs me: To some, manufacturers (who, in private, go to great lengths to accurately research, test and measure their products before selling them) are evil and deceptive but people with un-verified and sometimes downright suspect equipment can accurately measure headphones or other equipment from which inexpert sweeping conclusions are perfectly valid. *COUGH*

 

The blind faith thing always amuses (and at times saddens me). Graphs are a lot like the EPA ratings on cars. Sure it's empirical data but "your mileage may vary".

 

One thing that always piqued my interest was Joe talking about graphing the Abyss in development and then deciding to essentially ignore the data as the phone, tuned properly did not generate a graph that was ahem, appealing:). That from a manufacturer.

 

Now when you enter into the fray folk who's equipment is essentially an unknown, how much stock do you want to put in it?

post #101 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 

 

The blind faith thing always amuses (and at times saddens me). Graphs are a lot like the EPA ratings on cars. Sure it's empirical data but "your mileage may vary".

 

One thing that always piqued my interest was Joe talking about graphing the Abyss in development and then deciding to essentially ignore the data as the phone, tuned properly did not generate a graph that was ahem, appealing:). That from a manufacturer.

 

Now when you enter into the fray folk who's equipment is essentially an unknown, how much stock do you want to put in it?

 

That's the funny part. Really, in the end, there's NO objective data we can use to determine product quality. All we can do is make a big scatterplot and weight the points based on what we know about the individuals and hope to come to a conclusion based on that.

 

Think about this, too: how reliable is a review if, despite having lots of experience with the product at hand, is not someone who particularly enjoys the type of product it is? Think about a review of a horror movie from someone who prefers romance, or a red wine review from someone who likes whites. Even with all their experience, their subjectivity is part of it.

 

And it gets hairier than that! Just because someone has a lot of experience with product X doesn't necessarily help unless they have a lot to compare and contrast it with. After all, if I've spent 400 hours with my Sennheiser Momentums but the only other headphones I've ever tried are Apple Earpods... how reliable is my review really? I probably think they sound better than anything on the planet.

 

So when you look at someone saying something about a headphone, you have to ask yourself:

 

  • Have they used it?
  • How long have they used it?
  • What personal biases do they have?
  • What else have they tried to compare it to?
  • How did they use it?

 

I mean, obviously someone speaking about a product they don't own is stupid and anyone doing is rightly should be slapped for it, but there are tons of other factors that go into this whole big mess of headphone discussion. No one can say for sure who will like what or rate in an objective fashion an audio product. The "best" headphone is nothing more than a collection of opinions and making a judgment call based on that. That's all any of us are doing. We're offering our opinions based on our experience. This entire forum is a big patchwork of opinions, nothing more, and there's no way to make it anything but that. Of course, that's the beauty of it all.

post #102 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

I think his "steering" is not "recommending"......more like alerting someone to a possible gem,
Or new launch...
for the seeker to read up further. Can be v helpful...:-)

 

 I agree with this statement.  If someone starts a thread saying they are looking for a "Bass Heavy, but able to accurately play all ranges" headphone, I would recommend they seek information on XYZ, and although that type of headphone is not my preference, I have read enough threads to know that it gets mentioned quite a bit for having those same characteristics.  This will allow that person to research more to form their own opinion, read more detailed reviews from owners of that headphone, and maybe even find comparisons to headphones they have heard in the past.

 

  There are so many different manufacturers and model numbers, chances are they will not necessarily have heard of the particular set you have recommended.  Just because I don't have personal experience with them doesn't mean I know absolutely nothing about them.

post #103 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

That's the funny part. Really, in the end, there's NO objective data we can use to determine product quality. All we can do is make a big scatterplot and weight the points based on what we know about the individuals and hope to come to a conclusion based on that.

 

Think about this, too: how reliable is a review if, despite having lots of experience with the product at hand, is not someone who particularly enjoys the type of product it is? Think about a review of a horror movie from someone who prefers romance, or a red wine review from someone who likes whites. Even with all their experience, their subjectivity is part of it.

 

And it gets hairier than that! Just because someone has a lot of experience with product X doesn't necessarily help unless they have a lot to compare and contrast it with. After all, if I've spent 400 hours with my Sennheiser Momentums but the only other headphones I've ever tried are Apple Earpods... how reliable is my review really? I probably think they sound better than anything on the planet.

 

So when you look at someone saying something about a headphone, you have to ask yourself:

 

  • Have they used it?
  • How long have they used it?
  • What personal biases do they have?
  • What else have they tried to compare it to?
  • How did they use it?

 

I mean, obviously someone speaking about a product they don't own is stupid and anyone doing is rightly should be slapped for it, but there are tons of other factors that go into this whole big mess of headphone discussion. No one can say for sure who will like what or rate in an objective fashion an audio product. The "best" headphone is nothing more than a collection of opinions and making a judgment call based on that. That's all any of us are doing. We're offering our opinions based on our experience. This entire forum is a big patchwork of opinions, nothing more, and there's no way to make it anything but that. Of course, that's the beauty of it all.

^ and this is exactly the kind of post that makes me roll my eyes, no offense.

 

There is literally a TON of objective data that we can use to determine product quality. Going even further: it is the PRIMARY thing we should look at when judging a product's quality. Anyone who's been in this hobby longer than 5 seconds will tell you that.

 

Now that doesn't invalidate your point entirely - subjectivity certainly plays its part and going by your own preferred "flavor" of sound signature is by no means a bad thing. That being said, saying graphs are not a good tool is simply having no understanding of them in the first place. Now I'm sure there are some obscure measurements done by people who don't know what they're doing - however the majority of measurements we see on head-fi tend to come from very acceptable, reputable sources. If you choose to deny yourself the decades of expertise that you have free access to, that's fine, more power to you, but let's not go and invalidate actual scientific facts and repeatedly accurate measurements all because you think "you hear different".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylv View Post
 

 

 I agree with this statement.  If someone starts a thread saying they are looking for a "Bass Heavy, but able to accurately play all ranges" headphone, I would recommend they seek information on XYZ, and although that type of headphone is not my preference, I have read enough threads to know that it gets mentioned quite a bit for having those same characteristics.  This will allow that person to research more to form their own opinion, read more detailed reviews from owners of that headphone, and maybe even find comparisons to headphones they have heard in the past.

 

  There are so many different manufacturers and model numbers, chances are they will not necessarily have heard of the particular set you have recommended.  Just because I don't have personal experience with them doesn't mean I know absolutely nothing about them.

 

 

The whole point is that you don't know enough. For all you know, whatever you've read came from people with little experience with other headphones and the "bass heavy" recommendation you're making is actually not bass heavy at all.


Edited by elmoe - 6/14/14 at 9:34am
post #104 of 215

Right, I understand that.  But I don't think mentioning a specific model to someone based on the opinions of others should be as big of a deal as some people are trying to make it out to be.  I would never tell someone "Buy the V-Moda M100.  It is exactly what you need."  But I see no harm in telling someone they should look into it, if it is someone new to Head-Fi that had their Beats stolen and want to replace them with something else, chances are they only know Beats, Sony, and Skullcandy headphones exist in the world.

post #105 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylv View Post
 

 

 I agree with this statement.  If someone starts a thread saying they are looking for a "Bass Heavy, but able to accurately play all ranges" headphone, I would recommend they seek information on XYZ, and although that type of headphone is not my preference, I have read enough threads to know that it gets mentioned quite a bit for having those same characteristics.  This will allow that person to research more to form their own opinion, read more detailed reviews from owners of that headphone, and maybe even find comparisons to headphones they have heard in the past.

 

  There are so many different manufacturers and model numbers, chances are they will not necessarily have heard of the particular set you have recommended.  Just because I don't have personal experience with them doesn't mean I know absolutely nothing about them.

 

That's also true.

 

In most fields of research, 95% of what is said and disseminated is not via first hand experience. When I tell you about the orbits of the planets, I didn't observe it myself. I read it in a book. When I tell you about the after-effects of the Indonesian tsunami, I didn't visit the devastation for myself. I read news articles and saw video.

 

It gets really knotty when, for example, one reads 50 reviews of a product that all say X (for example, headphone A is bassy) but then someone listened to them and says Y (that A has no bass). I, being someone who saw the pile of reviews, am likely to go "but all these people said X" and the response as per the OP here would be for me to shut up because I'm speaking on something I have no experience with. However, my statement isn't uninformed, the opposite is true. I've pooled together the experience of others and am (from my perspective) weighing what I heard first-hand from THESE people against what I'm hearing first-hand from THIS person. This is a perfectly valid way of discussing.

 

Even if someone has never heard the VModa M100 I think they have a dang good idea who to recommend them to. Even if you've never heard a Grado you know not to recommend them to bassheads. It is ENTIRELY valid to pass on information gleaned through sources other than personal experience. Heck, who's to say you (or I) know what we're talking about anyway? I might listen to something and come up with a totally asinine opinion of them based on flaws in my listening or who knows what else. 

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