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What Happened to Head-Fi? (Rant) - Page 6

post #76 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

I hate to even bring up this topic, but it seems the state of the forum correlates with the much higher number of younger members here wanting to fit in with the rest of the forum. 

 

^^ This.    There seems to be a very high number of people who seem to have their own sense of ego tied up with products, to the point that they get personally combative the moment anyone criticises their "precious" - a good part of that seems to be simple age-related immaturity (although this is by no means limited to younger people only).

 

Did I just go "damn kids, get off my lawn"?  I think i did... *sigh*

post #77 of 215

I thought I'd chime in here as a newer Head-Fi member/enthusiast to share some of my opinions on the subject. I am not here as a token for all new members, I'm just sharing one guy's experience.

 

I put this all in a spoiler, as I typed a lot!


 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

As a short intro to my philosophy, I believe in objective measurements. I am in school for Computer/Electrical Engineering, and have spent much time learning how all systems work. I have a pretty good understanding of amp design, D/A conversion (R2R vs. sigma-delta stuff even), how the different drivers work... I think it's genuinely super interesting stuff. I read this forum to an obsessive degree. I am a musician, and have been a music lover my whole life.

 

I have spent about 4.5 years as a member of the Drummerworld forums, so I have a good idea of how different gear philosophies and preferred sound qualities interact. I have since stopped visiting the forums because people argue over the smallest of differences.

 

Most every drum kit on the market is a maple ply shell. They all sound darn near the same assuming build quality is up to par, yet every body always insists that what they have is the best. It gets really tiring after a while. Mapex Saturn!1!!!! Ludwig Classic Maple!!!1!!! Sabian AAX for rock is tha best!11!1! etc. etc. etc. There was also a huge influx of 'omg daddy says i can buy tha best kit evar!!1!! wat is the best oaky thanks' style posts that really tick me off. After I gained some wisdom and maturity (do some general math on my age if you must) would always recommend "go to a store and just close your eyes and hit stuff" but nobody would listen. Four years of experience taught me that auditions teach you an incomprehensible amount more than reading can ever do. Reading helps you get close, as I can share from when I got to try some TOTL cans recently - but the audition spoke worlds to me. Anyways, I now only correspond with one guy from the forum who started his own TOTL drum company based off his measurements and scientific experiments. Check out Guru Drums for those so inclined. There are very few other builders I trust for objective info. I can name a few other great builders if you want. 90% of drummers need to just worry about budget, the finish (might as well, when all other things are so close), learning to tune well, and getting the right sizes.

 

What my time there taught me is this about the drumming world (pun intended):

1. Reading reviews on the internet really should be always read as nothing more than a nearly anonymous opinion and anybody who reads a review as fact is a total idiot. I edited four non-forum-appropriate words out of that. Seriously. Internet =/= facts.

2. Audition things or shut up. Check my signature... that is where that came from.

3. Your gear won't make you a better player. Only time and practice will. For Head-Fi, this correlates to the fact of that when listening to music, hi-hats will always be hi-hats, female vocals will be vocals, and a clap track is a clap track. Just enjoy what's there. If your enjoyment comes from purely gear measurements, get on the science forum section, and stay there. Or get an EE degree and design your own gear.

4. The only reason I have a TOTL set-up is because I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford it, and the last bit of refinement lets me hear into a track deeply, which brings an intimate connection to music by bringing in my experience as a musician. I would not recommend the average new user to spend money past the point of diminishing returns, which seems to be about the $300 mark on cans IMHO. Why spend double just to hear breathing, tiny squeaks, and the last 10% of a piano's timbre?

 

 

 

Now, to the OP's concern as well as others:

The whole point of Head-Fi is to amass information about the hobby. Not only for community's sake, but for convenience' sake. I've noticed how few headphone dealers there are in India... so this site is invaluable because this is their best chance at getting close to their desires due to lack of audition opportunities.

 

I have no philosophical problem with people spewing out obvious close-minded B.S.... if you don't like a post, ask for clarifications/ reply with constructive feedback or criticism, or move on. Censoring does nothing useful. I want to know who not to listen to - flag with remarks, not the flag button.

Why not talk about gear you haven't heard? Telling someone 'hey, my LCD-2's are dark, but the HD800's (which I have not heard) should be brighter' does nothing harmful. Where are you guys drawing the line between indisputable dark vs. bright sounds vs. what you consider offensive? Refer to my point #1. As long as somebody is transparent when they haven't heard something, I see no problem.

 

 

 

Anecdotes: Recently somebody asked for a recommendation between 3 cans, 2 of which I've never heard in person. I steered the poster into picking one I haven't heard. Why? Because the one I had heard wouldn't've fit his tastes IMHO (and 'IMHO' was in the post), one had no return policy and many described it as boomy, and the last one left was a crowd favorite. Was it wrong for me to reply and suggest looking into the last one? NO. If someone here thinks it was, let me know. We all only improve with criticism.

 

Another: I recall one thread fondly (in a sick way) where an older guy with cancer was asking for a cheap headphone option - classical music listener IIRC. Like, $60 or less range... medicine is expensive. Immediately, someone mentioned HD650's as a 'get this or you'll just waste money trying to get to this level' for no reason. An inconsiderate, close-minded, snobbish post. So what did the OP do, he went out and bought the HD650 and an Asgard amp. You might think, "omg this poor guy, I can't believe he got roped in," but why should we care? His money, his choice. He's either happy or he's not. Should we really have stopped the guy who recommended HD650's? Freedom of speech is a great responsibility. Trying to shut that down is more close minded that these two guys.

 

Tl;dr summary:

Don't censor. Ask questions!

Audition whenever possible. If you don't, I won't feel bad if you ever complain about 'I wasted my money'.

Differences are smaller than they appear. That's why the hobby exists in such depth.

 

Finally: to the older members who are tired of wisdom being lost - don't leave, we probably need you now more than ever. Writing this has encouraged me to return to the Drummerworld forums, because I know my advice is worth much more than your average Joe's.

If you truly believe in getting correct info out there, don't get fed up and give up. Try posting one word of advice a day in the Introductions/Recommendations section. Think of all the good you'll do with a 30 second post.

post #78 of 215

Also, this thread sounds very similar to the' anti-M50X' and 'Darn kids and their Beats' threads. Sometimes they are healthy, other times it really can sound like 'get off my lawn'-style bitter posts from grumpy members. Things change, get over it.

post #79 of 215
What do you mean you think your Beats are the best headphones in existence... get off my lawn wink.gif?!
post #80 of 215

Lol. The Beats I've heard from the pre-Monster split generation were horrendous. I doubt they've changed too much. I know a guy who works for them now (doing active NC IIRC)... but I still would steer clear for a number of reasons.

But yeah, kids suck. And unfortunately, the internet is not private property, so you can't kick them off :mad:. Lolz.

post #81 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

A big part of the problem with hype is that more often than not, the people praising a headphone to the moon are the people who really haven't heard better, which leads to misinformation regarding absolute quality of sound.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/656394/too-much-competition-what-headphones-should-i-get-for-100-180/15#post_9294908


Home of the Liquid Carbon, Liquid Crimson, Liquid Glass, Liquid Gold and
Liquid Lightning headphone amplifiers... and the upcoming Liquid Spark!

Reply
post #82 of 215
Awesome call out, warren. We need more of you.
Currawong, IMHO, one bares no responsibility for how another spends his money. I call that "accepting personal responsibility."
post #83 of 215

Oh goodness I remember him. I'm pretty sure he attacked me via PM because I said I didn't like the SRH550.

And I don't mean to pick on the younger crowd--people still probably consider me a kid since I have yet to hit 20--but I have noticed the most vocal, and quickest to complain if they are called out, are usually teens because they just haven't learned that sometimes the best response is no response. I know I've written entire emotionally invested paragraphs as counterpoints, but sometimes (read: usually) just stepping back, deleting it all, and accepting the fact that not everyone has to agree with you is the smartest action.
Edited by Ishcabible - 6/14/14 at 12:40am
post #84 of 215


Thats  a brilliant little microcosm of the site in general.

 

I just bought X and it's endgame......until .

 

There is just so much that goes into the listening experience I have a hard time making any kind of recommendation other than "you may want to give these a listen" :)

 

Source quality, media quality, amplification, the listeners hearing, listening environment, all play a part and largely get little or no mention in the race to hype a phone.

 

....................and then we have the GraphHounds.....................:D

post #85 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 
 

....................and then we have the GraphHounds.....................:D

 

That is one thing that bugs me: To some, manufacturers (who, in private, go to great lengths to accurately research, test and measure their products before selling them) are evil and deceptive but people with un-verified and sometimes downright suspect equipment can accurately measure headphones or other equipment from which inexpert sweeping conclusions are perfectly valid. *COUGH*

post #86 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
 

 

That is one thing that bugs me: To some, manufacturers (who, in private, go to great lengths to accurately research, test and measure their products before selling them) are evil and deceptive but people with un-verified and sometimes downright suspect equipment can accurately measure headphones or other equipment from which inexpert sweeping conclusions are perfectly valid. *COUGH*

 

Well. It goes both ways. There are some pretty outrageous claims from many manufacturers in the audio world.

post #87 of 215

...but whatever the hype/noise/impressions, after a good season...

with collective inputs, from people with diff gears,

 the ballpark scorecard on a particular can/gadget is quite credibly marked.

 

For people living in the wilderness, with no shops to listen from...

the chance of an educated buy is much better.

 

And not forgetting little tweaks that can contribute to significant improvements at times,

if the forum gets too uptight/rigid, then such info will be v risky for someone to post.

Sometimes it is just a tot or a possibility, and other headfiers can chime in n spark off better ideas.

Like a small brainstorm online.

 

i generally welcome more chatter than less chatter. Can be hilarious at times...

helps me loosen up after a "good" day. :P

post #88 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post

Also, this thread sounds very similar to the' anti-M50X' and 'Darn kids and their Beats' threads. Sometimes they are healthy, other times it really can sound like 'get off my lawn'-style bitter posts from grumpy members. Things change, get over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddTheMetalGod View Post

What do you mean you think your Beats are the best headphones in existence... get off my lawn wink.gif?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post

Lol. The Beats I've heard from the pre-Monster split generation were horrendous. I doubt they've changed too much. I know a guy who works for them now (doing active NC IIRC)... but I still would steer clear for a number of reasons.
But yeah, kids suck. And unfortunately, the internet is not private property, so you can't kick them off mad.gif . Lolz.

The Beats bashing on this forum (& Bose to lesser degree)is a shameful bandwagon of unnecessary hate that is like an undercurrent of cancer and seems to be generally accepted as ok.

And for a headphone and personal audio site - this is a disgrace IMO.

Beats cans are as badly put down to the same degree that the naysayers say they are a hyped product.

Monster Beats are what started me off in this hobby to where I found head-fi and opened my horizons to many other cans including AUDEZE LCD-X, Sennheiser HD800, HIFIMAN HE-6 etc - check my profile for full list if you so wish and you will find that I still pick up and enjoy Beats cans as much as I enjoy my AKG K812's, ULTRASONE Sig Pro's etc, something which appears to go against some members grain of thought.

Beats as a brand and cans have moved on and up in terms of build and sound quality considerably from their early Monster days manufacturing partnership, yet still receives the same old put downs from members who regurgitate the infamous old sound bites they've heard before (muddy bass rolleyes.gif) and beats threads get trolled causing them to be locked.
Beats cans are not your atomic playboy.


I started a photo album of my cans about a month and a half ago in the gallery section entitled simply "My Headphones" and amazingly it's had over 50K views, ( http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/874680/my-headphones/ ) but guess what one of the most viewed headphone photos is? Beats solo HD monochromatic purple photo that sits a few pics away from HIFIMAN HE-6 pics which have individually around half the views of the Beats can I point out - go figure that one out all you Beats haters! biggrin.gifwink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

...but whatever the hype/noise/impressions, after a good season...
with collective inputs, from people with diff gears,
the ballpark scorecard on a particular can/gadget is quite credibly marked.

For people living in the wilderness, with no shops to listen from...
the chance of an educated buy is much better.

And not forgetting little tweaks that can contribute to significant improvements at times,
if the forum gets too uptight/rigid, then such info will be v risky for someone to post.
Sometimes it is just a tot or a possibility, and other headfiers can chime in n spark off better ideas.
Like a small brainstorm online.

i generally welcome more chatter than less chatter. Can be hilarious at times...
helps me loosen up after a "good" day. :P

I couldn't agree with you more and share the same outlook totally smily_headphones1.gif

I think too many members take things far too seriously here at times and are in need to get some perspective on things - these are headphones we are talking about - not life or death - enjoy your cans - let others express how they enjoy theirs - enjoy the banter without getting stroppy - eat - sleep - repeat wink.gif

Audio snobbery is a crime - let's wipe it out - head-fi should be inclusive not exclusive cool.gif

Increase the peace smily_headphones1.gif


This track sound good on most headcans but especially on beats studio 2.0's (IMO) cool.gif

Edited by cb3723 - 6/14/14 at 5:49am
post #89 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

That is one thing that bugs me: To some, manufacturers (who, in private, go to great lengths to accurately research, test and measure their products before selling them) are evil and deceptive but people with un-verified and sometimes downright suspect equipment can accurately measure headphones or other equipment from which inexpert sweeping conclusions are perfectly valid. *COUGH*

Graphs and measurements are all good but:

"Yes, I believe there are things we can experience that can't be measured objectively.
How many pounds of Joy did you experience yesterday?"

(Tyll Hertsens, Feb 18th 2012)
wink.gif
Edited by cb3723 - 6/14/14 at 6:22am
post #90 of 215

Many of these complaints are well-founded and IMO the entire Head-Fi community should be paying attention, but more importantly we all should be trying to make changes to this community so that Head-Fi can be held up as a genuinely useful resource.

 

Here are some points I feel we should consider.

 

1. More moderators, especially people who have shown that they can control themselves and keep the forum a FAIR and ENJOYABLE place.

 

2. EVERYONE has their CURRENT gear in their profile.  At least this will help identify those who are parroting information or just plain trolling.

 

3. (I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread) There should be a "vote to remove post" on threads.  Once a post receives enough votes it is placed on a list for Moderators to remove. (I assume that is the same as report post?)

 

4. Allow posting in a product thread by HF members only at the release of the product, prior to that a separate speculation thread can be created for loose discussion and only the MOT can post in product thread.

- IMO this would bring some order to the chaos before a product's release, making it MUCH easier to find accurate information on the item and would give people the option to ignore the speculations of impatient people.

 

5. Short-term thread bans for individuals who are identified as trolling, taking things OT, being abusive, forcing their opinions onto others continually in an unwanted manner.

 

6. Have pre-defined threads (possibly sub-threads) for individual products (e.g. HD800 Discussion | HD800 Amplifier Recommendations | HD800 Modifications) ....this relates to number 5 above.

 

 

These are just ideas I am throwing out there, they may help...who knows?

 

I just want to read about people trying to get the most out of their setups, but I also prefer people to call a spade a spade.  There will ALWAYS be hyperbole and fanboys and clashes of scientific/experiential opinion.  I think it just comes down to how we manage these things so that they don't detract too much from the useful content within this forum, without which I would not be able to enjoy this hobby to the level I currently do.

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