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What Happened to Head-Fi? (Rant) - Page 11

post #151 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

 

Maybe the most important thing we can all do is develop the ability to deliver a contrary opinion without also conveying disrespect. I reckon Amos would have less posts to axe if we managed that.

 

Agreed!  One of the most common personality traits many of us have is to criticize the person rather than the action (or comment).  Conversely, many, too easily,  take criticism as a personal affront, rather than to realize criticism usually is directed at a single action, or God forbid, at a possession of yours that others may not like as well as you do.  It is not an attack on the person you are.  Understanding this, I believe, is where the maturity factor comes into play, though some may never get it.  I've said it countless times, this is just a hobby, and we should have fun with it.

post #152 of 185
Originally Posted by Dr4Bob View Post

Caveat emptor

Applies to the advice on Head-Fi as well as the gear referenced.

I have found much useful information on the forums as well as much bunk; as with everything, it is the consumer's responsibility to vet the facts, opinion and advice...

 Agreed...and good information, in proper context, can usually be found with some diligence and patience!

 

Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post

i would rather all types of people join in the forum....

scientists, techqies, philosophers, lost, ranters, bored, echoers etc

from diff parts of the globe, respondg to a topic.

very interesting to me. :P

 

yes...n about this usb cable that i bot....i know the science says 0s n 1s...but but 

Having information access is paramount.  I've been burned just once by the FOTM hype, and tbh, it was early in my Head-Fi membership.  Since then, I research a little more within Head-Fi and outside as well.  In the end, I'd rather have too much info than not enough (even with the poor info interspersed).

 

Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post
...Currawong, IMHO, one bares no responsibility for how another spends his money. I call that "accepting personal responsibility."

+1...Yep. My buying decisions are just that -- mine. 


Edited by GearMe - 6/15/14 at 3:21pm
post #153 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post
 
BUT i will never forgive him for knocking off the LCD2....though he obviously struggled on his vid.

 

 

I put a super evil spell on him for doing that. Abracadabra, all cans should sound tizzy and harsh to the wonder man that is Tyll Hertsens.

post #154 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

Another tough thing is we have so many members that are very young. No offense teens, but the time required to become a reliable source of listening information means you'll be well into your 20's before your opinions are truly worthy. Not picking on you here, just suggesting your focus should be on gaining experience and not developing your ability to give advice.

I'm not sure if I'm offended by this, I think your doing yourself a disservice by making such a broad claim. What makes someone trusted? How much money he's spent? How much gear he's auditioned or owned? How long he's been in the hobby?

Just playing devil's advocate...
I've heard just as many closed older members making untrustworthy or close-minded claims as over-zealous kids making immature/ignorant posts. Often the older people get protected by the supposed level of wisdom that should come with age, yet doesn't always. Elitism is more of a problem to me than enthusiasm or naïveté. Plus, we have better hearing :P.

And, no, you're not a member of the group I speak of. Though we have disagreements, you have proven to be one of my favorite sources of knowledge and insight.
Edited by jodgey4 - 6/15/14 at 2:35pm
post #155 of 185
I think he does have a point though. I've been in the hobby since I was 12 (God that's weird to think about) and even after seven or eight years, I know I still have a ways to go in terms of accurately describing what I hear. I don't think it's merely the fact that we're young that makes us less qualified, but the fact that we, more often than not, just haven't been able to train our ears as well people who have been in the hobby for decades. Of course there are exceptions for both sides, but if reading the opinion of an adult who's either grown up listening to good gear/plays in a symphonic orchestra or a teenager who just hasn't had nearly enough experience because of the fact that s/he is unable to find the resources, I'd obviously pick the adult.

Since I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, I'll call out myself. Back in 2011, I gushed about the HE500 in my review. I'd heard other, better headphones, but I didn't hear the same faults I do three years later with my current pair. Not to say they're bad headphones, but three years later, I disagree with my own impressions. I honestly feel it takes more than just good gear to be able to hear that, it takes an incredibly amount of listening to even begin to understand sound. I remember having conversation with with a group of people whose ears I really trust and one of the things that stood out to me most was when one of them said something like, "There's so much more to sound than graphs and measurements. Not even words can really describe what we hear sometimes."
post #156 of 185

There's a Zits cartoon where the father is having trouble with his smart phone. His teenage son shows him how to use it and then the thought bubbles above the father and son respectively are: "I don't know anything." and "I know everything.":smile: 

 

@Hawaiibadboy Why didn't you report the "troll" comments? :smile:

post #157 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post


I'm not sure if I'm offended by this, I think your doing yourself a disservice by making such a broad claim. What makes someone trusted? How much money he's spent? How much gear he's auditioned or owned? How long he's been in the hobby?

Just playing devil's advocate...
I've heard just as many closed older members making untrustworthy or close-minded claims as over-zealous kids making immature/ignorant posts. Often the older people get protected by the supposed level of wisdom that should come with age, yet doesn't always. Elitism is more of a problem to me than enthusiasm or naïveté. Plus, we have better hearing :P.

And, no, you're not a member of the group I speak of. Though we have disagreements, you have proven to be one of my favorite sources of knowledge and insight.

 

You shouldn't feel offended if you happen to be young. Younger people can be mature, wise, precocious, etc. But, as Currawong so brilliantly illustrated, many times younger people tend to think they know everything, when in fact they do not. Almost everyone who gets to the point where they're considered "older" (I'm 33) can look back on their younger years and remember how they felt that way at the time, and in retrospect I really didn't know anything! The funny thing is that it keeps happening - in another 10 years I'll look at where I was now and say "I thought I knew it all… and I didn't!" You have to understand that you NEVER know it all, even if you're an expert on a particular subject. Things change and everything you thought you knew may be obsolete.

 

So anyway, if you are young, don't worry about it, just behave normally and SHOW that you aren't a brash know-it-all, but someone that is humble, curious, interested, etc. Through your actions you'll get a reputation for being trusted, even if you might be on the younger side.

post #158 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by thievesarmy View Post
Through your actions you'll get a reputation for being trusted, even if you might be on the younger side.

Yes. This is what I go for. I was just trying to play devil's advocate, not to come across as truly offended. I've been playing in many different music groups over the years, and know a whole lot about the industry, and I have the technical know-how behind a lot of what's going on. Nowhere near what I want, but I try. I'm just asking for people to not look to age, but experience. Positive correlation, absolutely.

And no, I really don't have much experience, but anybody who would disregard me based on my age is somebody I'd like to sit down with and pick his/her brain... put our egos on the line. It's how we improve.

 

And btw, I don't think I'm that knowledgeable about this hobby. My input here has been mostly resourcefulness and just asking questions. That's how I operate, I don't even think I'd ever even come near a situation wherein my lack of age/maturity/experience would be an issue. I know my limits. Read my long post that's hidden in a spoiler if you want to understand me as a forum member.


Edited by jodgey4 - 6/15/14 at 6:06pm
post #159 of 185

Just found this in the NRB-28 thread (which I do own)...

"I figured Id mention that though I have had a ton of headphones I am totally tech illiterate. That "headphoneus supremus" moniker dont mean JACK nuggets to me as I have a ton to learn. I just shy away from the tech stuff because I loose interest too quickly. Im quick to explain how something sounds but cant really help much when it comes to the technical aspects." I'm the opposite, tech > sounds. Learning your strengths and acknowledging your weaknesses is the name of the game. Kudos to that poster! A little humility goes a long way.

post #160 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

I think he does have a point though. I've been in the hobby since I was 12 (God that's weird to think about) and even after seven or eight years, I know I still have a ways to go in terms of accurately describing what I hear. I don't think it's merely the fact that we're young that makes us less qualified, but the fact that we, more often than not, just haven't been able to train our ears as well people who have been in the hobby for decades. Of course there are exceptions for both sides, but if reading the opinion of an adult who's either grown up listening to good gear/plays in a symphonic orchestra or a teenager who just hasn't had nearly enough experience because of the fact that s/he is unable to find the resources, I'd obviously pick the adult.

Since I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, I'll call out myself. Back in 2011, I gushed about the HE500 in my review. I'd heard other, better headphones, but I didn't hear the same faults I do three years later with my current pair. Not to say they're bad headphones, but three years later, I disagree with my own impressions. I honestly feel it takes more than just good gear to be able to hear that, it takes an incredibly amount of listening to even begin to understand sound. I remember having conversation with with a group of people whose ears I really trust and one of the things that stood out to me most was when one of them said something like, "There's so much more to sound than graphs and measurements. Not even words can really describe what we hear sometimes."

True know-how in this hobby results from a combination of accumulated experiences (ownerships and auditions of gear, plus constructive discussion, and of course learning about sound science / measurements) and personal maturity (correlated to age, but it is wildly different from person to person), I feel. 

 

Like you I was gushing about Audio Technica M50s 3 years ago, and then again on HE400 2 years ago. Funnily enough it was with my acquisition of a pair of HE500s and minor disappointment with it leading to many hours of almost obsessive modding and analytical listening, that I calmed down and became more inquisitive and grounded with this hobby. Of course I also matured as a person over the last few years, being a young adult and all.


Edited by jerg - 6/15/14 at 6:19pm
post #161 of 185

Wow, I've never seen so much modesty, maturity and temperance all in the one thread. Should this be stickied?

 

:p

post #162 of 185

I think the old versus young thing is a bit of a red herring distraction from the real issue, which is, people forming authoritative opinions regarding headphones they haven't even listened to. There are ignorant people young and old. Just because someone is young and new to the hobby doesn't mean their opinion is invalid and just because someone has been listening to headphones for 30 years doesn't make their headphone opinion automatically somehow more authoritative. Each person is susceptible to the same hubris regarding their own opinion, whether it's "I'm young and I know it all" or "I've been doing this for 30 years you can't tell me nothing, kid". I feel like we could spent 30+ pages regarding the old versus young thing, because it's hard for us oldies to resist a chance to launch into a long winded "get off my lawn youth today blah blah blah" tirade  ;) Personally I don't think it's relevant in the least.

 

I think part of the problem is that this is a highly, highly subjective hobby and there are no right answers, but many people (both young and old) pretend there is some scientific formula for producing a excellent headphone and unless a product adheres to that specific formula it isn't worth anybody's time. Combine this attitude with a minority of "trusted" voices whose authoritative sounding opinions are parroted ad nauseum in the community, and you have an echo chamber and a high signal to noise ratio.

post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Like you I was gushing about Audio Technica M50s 3 years ago, and then again on HE400 2 years ago. Funnily enough it was with my acquisition of a pair of HE500s and minor disappointment with it leading to many hours of almost obsessive modding and analytical listening, that I calmed down and became more inquisitive and grounded with this hobby. Of course I also matured as a person over the last few years, being a young adult and all.
This sounds exactly like me. I kept buying bass quality oriented headphones, when probably the only thing that really matters after a long time of owning them is the midrange. I think I just really like dynamics and not many headphones can pull them off as well as I'd like. I'm thinking about acquiring a pair of Totem Mite or Magnepan MMG, and ending my audiophile craze for a while tongue.gif.
post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

No offense teens, but the time required to become a reliable source of listening information means you'll be well into your 20's before your opinions are truly worthy. Not picking on you here, just suggesting your focus should be on gaining experience and not developing your ability to give advice. Your greatest tool in developing in the headphone hobby is the ability to ask interesting questions. Having interesting opinions will develop naturally from that. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jodgey4 View Post


I'm not sure if I'm offended by this, I think your doing yourself a disservice by making such a broad claim. What makes someone trusted? How much money he's spent? How much gear he's auditioned or owned? How long he's been in the hobby?

Just playing devil's advocate...
I've heard just as many closed older members making untrustworthy or close-minded claims as over-zealous kids making immature/ignorant posts. Often the older people get protected by the supposed level of wisdom that should come with age, yet doesn't always. Elitism is more of a problem to me than enthusiasm or naïveté. Plus, we have better hearing :P.

 

I absolutely agree with you 100%, and I thought about that as I wrote the post.  The problem is, teenagers, it seems to me, while they're quite likely to go a bit manic in their posting, they're also somewhat likely to take advice when given. The "adults" you speak of are probably quite a bit less likely to take the advice, so I didn't bother.

post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with you 100%, and I thought about that as I wrote the post.  The problem is, teenagers, it seems to me, while they're quite likely to go a bit manic in their posting, they're also somewhat likely to take advice when given. The "adults" you speak of are probably quite a bit less likely to take the advice, so I didn't bother.

At this point, all I've got to say is that you're really cool. [/FANGIRL]

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