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NEW Schiit Lyr 2: Impressions - Page 62

post #916 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

you can max out the volume pot on your lyr 2 with the he-560 on high gain????

 

lol. on high gain my lyr 2 is at like 6 o'clock or less. if your volume is maxed out everywhere else, contact schiit cs.

 

also, try right click volume icon, playback devices -> right click your dac > properties > levels (make sure at 100% with balance correct). then select enhancements, disable all enhancements. then select advanced, select the right sampling rate & bit depth, uncheck allow applications to take exclusive control of this device & give exclusive mode applications priority.


Thanks for the info, I've had it set up that way from the get go. I'm also running bit perfect. I will try a few other things tomorrow like running my Fiio X1 to the amp.

post #917 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post
 

 The volume is definitely an issue on all the tubes I have. I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made. 

 

I feel at 50% for my set-up it sounds good, and it's where my wife would keep it but I am a moderate to high level volume level kinda guy. My hearing is tested annually for my job so it's not my ears.


Edited by ghostchili - 3/23/15 at 6:09am
post #918 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post
 

 The volume is definitely an issue on all the tubes I have. I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made. 

 

I feel at 50% for my set-up it sounds good, and it's where my wife would keep it but I am a moderate to high level volume level kinda guy. My hearing is tested annually for my job so it's not my ears.

It looks like the V281 puts out 40 Volts SE one HP:

Quote:

TECHNICAL DATA HPA V281

All Measurements RMS unwtd., 20 Hz - 20 kHz, Pre-Gain set to 0 dB

 

Inputs:                                                   2 x XLR female, balanced,

                                                             2 x RCA, unbalanced

                                                             1 x digital (Option)

Max.input voltage:                                 + 21 dBu, Impedanz 10 kOhms

Input impedance:                                   10 kohms

Line outputsd:                                       2 x XLR male, balanced

                                                              2 x RCA unbalanced

Nominal input sensitivity:                        +6 dBu

Amplifier gain:                                        +8 dB unbal. / 14 dB bal.

PRE-GAIN:                                            -12 / -6 / 0 / +6 / +12 dB

Frequency range:                                  5 Hz ... 70 kHz (- 0,5 dB)
                                                              3 Hz … 200 kHz (-3 dB)              

Output impedance:                                < 0,1 Ohm unbal. / < 0,2 Ohm bal.
Damping factor  (Load 50 Ohm):           500 unbal. / 250 bal.

Dynamic range:                                     > 129 dB (A-wtd)

Noise:                                                    < -95 dBu (A-wtd)

THD+N (1kHz/2x10V/100R = 1W)          < -102 dB / < 0,00079 %

THD+N (1kHz/2x4V/32R = 0,5W)           < -100 dB / < 0.001 %

Crosstalk:                                               -105 dB (1 kHz) / -103 dB (15 kHz)

Headphone outputs:                               1 x 4-pol XLR

                                                               2  x  ¼“ (6.3 mm) Phone Jack

 

 Max. output level:

 

RL

(x 2 )

Ua (dBu)

Ua

(V)

Pa (mW)

(1kHz / < 0.1% THD+N)

600

34,3

40,2

2700

Balanced operation

100

29,7

23,7

5600

Both channels driven

50

25,4

14,5

4200

 

32

21,7

9,5

2800

 

16

16,0

4,9

1500

 

 

The Lyr (assuming Lyr 2 on High Gain) a similar amount into the 50 Ohm impedence of the 560's

 

From SixMoons Review:

Quote:
To return to Lyr's apparent main attraction, peak swing into 32Ω is a mighty 40 volts. In casual Schiit slang this "will make the magic smoke come out of your headphones". So make no mistake, yes with such power you could blow up your expensive Sennheiser HD800 or beyerdynamic T1 if you cranked up the juice without wearing them. Anyone sane and not stone-deaf couldn't while actually listening. A 400 horse-power street rocket is potentially lethal too but only if not treated with respect. To author such a beast, the Lyr designers—have to—trust the intelligence of their audience not to do anything stupid. By implication it also means that a Lyr owner will possess a machine that'll properly drive any known headphone on the market. At least in the Schiit catalogue that makes it the only truly universal model (and needless to say 120dB IEMs would seem silly in this contex 


I doubt a normally functioning and properly fed Lyr/Lyr2 could run out of juice on the 560's.  Now a $2300 amp may sound better at very high volume vs a $500 one.  That would be expected. Maybe the Hi-Lo Gain switch is malfunctioning?


Edited by rb2013 - 3/23/15 at 7:49am
post #919 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

It looks like the V281 puts out 40 Volts SE one HP:

The Lyr (assuming Lyr 2 on High Gain) a similar amount into the 50 Ohm impedence of the 560's

From SixMoons Review:


I doubt a normally functioning and properly fed Lyr/Lyr2 could run out of juice on the 560's.  Now a $2300 amp may sound better at very high volume vs a $500 one.  That would be expected. Maybe the Hi-Lo Gain switch is malfunctioning?

The V281 is basically 2 improved V200's stacked. If you use SE it only uses 1 of the stacked amps, I was running the 560 balanced. I will take a closer look at the Lyr2 tomorrow.
Edited by ghostchili - 3/23/15 at 8:02am
post #920 of 1827

It seems the HiFi Man HE-6's are an extreme and well documented case of needing lot's of HP.  David Mahler used the AKG K1K speaker outputs of his WA5 to get them to sound good.  But the 560's shouldn't require that much muscle.

 

From the 'Battle of 58 Flagships' thread:

Quote:
 n the time since writing my 20 Headphones Compared thread, I have acquired a Woo Audio 5. Hearing the HE-6 through the K1K output (which is designed to pump 8 watts per channel at 150 Ohms) has really opened my eyes to just how amazing the HE-6 really can be. Iron Dreamer's review of the HE-6/EF-6 combo has piqued my interest in the EF-6 amp, but I haven't yet pulled the trigger on purchasing it.

From the 6Moons Lyr review:

Quote:

While the following isn't exact, it should suffice to convey the essentials. The Ortofon IEMs in this list were the obvious odd man out. I can't see anyone using their kind on this amp. They were the only headphones to have the Lyr slightly noisy. For the volume settings 7:00 equals mute. This progresses clockwise to full blast at 18:00.
 
Headphones
Source voltage
Volume control settings
Progression
AKG K702 9.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 12:00 - normal 14:00 - loud 16:00
low 10:00 - normal 11:00 - loud 12:00
low 09:00 - normal 10:00 - loud 11:00
low 08:30 - normal 09:30 - loud 10:30
slow
fast
very fast
very fast
Audez'e LCD-2
10.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 11:00 - normal 12:30 - loud 14:45
low 10:00 - normal 11:30 - loud 12:30
low 09:00 - normal 10:00 - loud 11:00
low 08:30 - normal 09:30 - loud 10:30
slow
fast
fast
very fast
Audio-Technica
ATH W5000
11.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 10:00 - normal 12:00 - loud 14:00
low 09:00 - normal 09:45 - loud 10:45
low 08:30 - normal 09:00 - loud 09:30
low 08:00 - normal 08:30 - loud 09:00
slow
normal
fast
very fast
beyerdynamic T1
12.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 12:00 - normal 14:00 - loud 16:00
low 10:00 - normal 12:00 - loud 14:00
low 09:00 - normal 10:00 - loud 11:00
low 08:30 - normal 09:30 - loud 10:30
slow
normal
fast
very fast
HifiMan HE6
13.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 14:00 - normal 16:00 - loud 18:00
low 12:00 - normal 14:00 - loud 16:00
low 09:00 - normal 11:30 - loud 13:00
low 08:30 - normal 11:00 - loud 12:30
slow
slow
normal
normal
Ortofon eQ7
15.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 09:30 - normal 10:30 - loud 12:00
low 08:30 - normal 09:15 - loud 10:00
unusable
unusable
normal
fast

 
Sennheiser HD800
14.jpg
1V iPod
2V CD
5V DAC
10V DAC
low 12:00 - normal 14:00 - loud 16:00
low 10:00 - normal 11:30 - loud 12:30
low 09:00 - normal 10:15 - loud 11:30
low 08:30 - normal 09:15 - loud 10:30
slow
normal
fast
very fast

These settings show that the chosen taper on the Alps pot properly matches a wide variety of headphones to not come on song too soon.common. Tube voltage and transistor current gain sounds like a good idea on paper. Given the Lyr's deliberately pushed power/drive aspect, the potential for noise was simply high. Since the amp wasn't envisioned as just a driver for inefficient orthos, very low self noise was obviously mandatory. Because it is, the juicy core vibe finds itself accompanied by high detail magnification. This is another aspect where honest comparisons between equally excellent valve and transistor amps often have to—grudgingly—admit that transistors fare better particularly at low volumes. No matter how loud you like your 'phones, the output voltage that makes it so is still peanuts compared to loudspeakers. What makes the Lyr (and given its price, what makes it special) is that it harvests valves for their textural density and color temperatures, transistors for resolution and drive control. What adds specialness (actually, specialty) is its ability to properly drive HifiMan's orthos. It drives the Audez'e just as well but their push/pull magnetics don't require Lyr muscle. As I learnt, the HE-5LE and HE-6 do. Rarely was the term 'wakeup call' so apt.
 

 

 

PS The Bifrost puts out Max 2V


Edited by rb2013 - 3/23/15 at 10:19am
post #921 of 1827


UPDATE: I was in Upland, CA Friday and picked up a matched pair of Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922s for $80 at Upscale Audio. They were very busy Friday but I called in advance and I really appreciate the service and help that they provided me. It probably took less than a minute to remove the stock tubes and install the GLs. I loved the stock tubes and was skeptical as to if I would notice a difference in sound quality. THE IMPROVEMENT WAS IMMEDIATE!!  I Probably listened to my Lyr 2 for 20 hours this weekend.

post #922 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post
 

 

I have to use high gain and most of the time around 50% or more of the volume for the HE-560 and I don't consider myself a high volume listener. I think I'll go for this amp in a month or so. I do need a bit more to save up and then I should be good to go. I'll probably sell a few sets of tubes since my decision is pretty much made. 

For the new Lyr 2 owners the gain switch is for the type of HPs you have (are they high or low impedence and efficency).  For low impedence HP's like the HifiMan they definitely need the high gain setting.  The reason Schiit added the switch to the Lyr 2 was for IEM's and very high impedence HP's like the T1's.  The HD800's are borderline and could use either setting depending on results.  The original Lyr was always high gain.


Edited by rb2013 - 3/23/15 at 10:18am
post #923 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post


The V281 is basically 2 improved V200's stacked. If you use SE it only uses 1 of the stacked amps, I was running the 560 balanced. I will take a closer look at the Lyr2 tomorrow.


It looks like the PS Audio Direct Stream has two output settings:

Quote:

Analog Audio Output

 
Connector RCA/XLR Unbalanced /Balanced (X2)
Output level, low 1.41 Vrms(+5BV)/3.15
Output level high, maximum 2.81 Vrms (+8dBV)/5.3 Vrms (+12dBV)

 

So on the low level output setting and the HE-560's I could see where you might be getting gain issues as 1.4 V is kinda on the low side (between an iPod and standard CD player)(Bifrost is 2V).  The high setting should give you better gain with 2.8V - between a std CD player and many DAC's.  Worth a try.

 

PS I noticed running balanced the PS Audio has much higher gain of 3.1V.  So could explain the better gain on the 281 - if you're running bal into it.


Edited by rb2013 - 3/23/15 at 11:11am
post #924 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


It looks like the PS Audio Direct Stream has two output settings:

So on the low level output setting and the HE-560's I could see where you might be getting gain issues as 1.4 V is kinda on the low side (between an iPod and standard CD player)(Bifrost is 2V).  The high setting should give you better gain with 2.8V - between a std CD player and many DAC's.  Worth a try.

PS I noticed running balanced the PS Audio has much higher gain of 3.1V.  So could explain the better gain on the 281 - if you're running bal into it.

I initially had the filter off but the button on the remote is right next to the Dim button which I use a lot to turn the display off. I will check that first once I get home.
post #925 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post


I initially had the filter off but the button on the remote is right next to the Dim button which I use a lot to turn the display off. I will check that first once I get home.


Is the high/low gain output activated by a button on the remote?  I'd be careful with that one.  Accidentally doubling your gain instantly, if you have the amp on a high vol level would be a shock.  Sure it's not a DIP or other switch?

 

PS It look like the Balanced has 6dB of more gain then the SE -the SE gain switch in accessed from the front touch screen panel.

 

From the manual PDF:

 

Quote:
DirectStream has two types of analog outputs, balanced XLR or single ended RCA. We do not recommend using both outputs at the same time. Be aware that most amplifiers and preamplifiers will produce 6dB higher level with the balanced outputs relative to the single ended outputs. If you are using both outputs be advised they will be at different levels. Our preference for connection to a power amplifier or preamplifier is through the balanced XLR outputs of DirectStream. If DirectStream has a gain mismatch with your power amplifier, you can use the balanced outputs and achieve 6dB more gain or choose the single ended RCA outputs for lower gain. DirectStream also has two output levels available to users. Go to the setup menu on the front panel touch screen to select the best output level.

Edited by rb2013 - 3/23/15 at 11:08am
post #926 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


Is the high/low gain output activated by a button on the remote?  I'd be careful with that one.  Accidentally doubling your gain instantly, if you have the amp on a high vol level would be a shock.  Sure it's not a DIP or other switch?

Yes, filter button, for a $6000 DAC it's a poor remote. Not even backlit. I will let you guys know and repost my findings.
post #927 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post


Yes, filter button, for a $6000 DAC it's a poor remote. Not even backlit. I will let you guys know and repost my findings.


I think the filter setting are different then the output level settings.  Makes sense to put the filter setting there as it nice to try them on the fly to see which you like best.  (See my PS on the above post for touch screen operation of output level).

 

Despite the remote - this is one very high tech piece of gear! 

 

Cheers!

:beerchug:

post #928 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


I think the filter setting are different then the output level settings.  Makes sense to put the filter setting there as it nice to try them on the fly to see which you like best.  (See my PS on the above post for touch screen operation of output level).

Despite the remote - this is one very high tech piece of gear! 

Cheers!
beerchug.gif

Adjusting the output level - DirectStream has two output levels, High and Low. In the standard output mode, DirectStream will provide adequate output level to directly feed a power amplifier without use of a preamplifier. If the power amplifier, or preamplifier, is overly sensitive or you need to reduce the output level of DirectStream for any reason, you can activate the output attenuator to reach a lower level. There should be no sonic penalty for doing so.
To turn on/off the output attenuator, press the filter button on the remote. Or, go to the setup screen which is accessible by touching the small tool icon at the top of the default screen
post #929 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post


Adjusting the output level - DirectStream has two output levels, High and Low. In the standard output mode, DirectStream will provide adequate output level to directly feed a power amplifier without use of a preamplifier. If the power amplifier, or preamplifier, is overly sensitive or you need to reduce the output level of DirectStream for any reason, you can activate the output attenuator to reach a lower level. There should be no sonic penalty for doing so.
To turn on/off the output attenuator, press the filter button on the remote. Or, go to the setup screen which is accessible by touching the small tool icon at the top of the default screen


I see - makes sense it can go down but not up I guess.  If it's set for low just be careful to not forget then switch back to high while you have your HPs on, and vol high

post #930 of 1827
How many have tried the Lyr2 as a preamp for driving speakers? I ran my Lyr in through the CD input in my vintage Denon. I was quite pleased. It added a bit of tube sound to the SS Denon. Most significantly great stereo imaging! Fine localization and I was hearing music that seemed to come from the Right of my Right speaker and the left of my left speaker. Much nicer than using the Denon directly. I had the Lyr volume at 12 O'clock
I
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