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How is "tube sound" even audible in modern headphone amps? - Page 5

post #61 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

Solid state amps will most likely get to the exact sound of tubes if they have not already.



God I hope not, at least not if you're correct that tubes still have "warmth". Amps should be perfectly transparent, and have no sound signature - basically a "wire with gain". Anything else is not worth wasting the time and money on, given how easily the ideal amp (to the limit of audibility) can be achieved with modern solid state technology. I want my amp to reproduce the signal I feed it with a higher amplitude, not try to "add warmth".


Edited by cjl - 6/14/14 at 10:02pm
post #62 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post
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Of course this is a matter of opinion but there is a certain quality to the tube sound. I'm sure that you can get 90% there with great solid state. So that's the issue, solid state does not seem to be effected by warm-up times as much. Tubes need to be replaced at times and the sound can vary if there are older tubes being used. Tubes can be micro-phonic too used with speakers.
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It's the small things that add to the enjoyment of a modern high end tube amp. The fact that you can listen with any pair of headphones for 4 or 5 hours with no fatigue. There is a warmth but it almost sounds like very subtle expanse harmonics added to every single note but not smearing the presentation. Gone in the higher end amps is the thin sound, gone is most hum, unless your super sensitive to hum. All you get is perfect clarity, perfect tone and speed.

Solid state amps will most likely get to the exact sound of tubes if they have not already.

I hope you don't mean that warm up times, microphonics and replacing tubes are included in "the small things that add to the enjoyment of a modern high end tube amp?" :D 

post #63 of 366

+ =

 

winter is coming!

post #64 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

Solid state amps will most likely get to the exact sound of tubes if they have not already.



God I hope not, at least not if you're correct that tubes still have "warmth". Amps should be perfectly transparent, and have no sound signature - basically a "wire with gain". Anything else is not worth wasting the time and money on, given how easily the ideal amp (to the limit of audibility) can be achieved with modern solid state technology. I want my amp to reproduce the signal I feed it with a higher amplitude, not try to "add warmth".


I did read the whole thread before making my first post here. I think the very second post said something about how each amp having it's own sound. I kind of look at all amps as being their own thing. I just purchased a JDS c421 today. Even though this thing is the size of a pack of cigs it's interesting. There is no perfect amp, no perfect sound. That said I do think that you can get very close to the perfect sounding amp for your ears. They are out there to find.

What makes this hobby what it is, is excepting the drawbacks of amps and enjoying them for what they are and what they are not. I think we live in amazing times where new styles of electronics are made all the time, plus we still have all the 1930s technology for that type of amp if you want one.

The cool part is you can try stuff at a show or even go to the effort to purchase test and resell again saving money. Every amp has it's own personality and the lower cost ones actually have way more personality and qwerky qualities.

The expensive amps just power and get out of the way. Kind of boring after awhile. Lol



Edit to follow.

It's not just the color/warmth added by the amp either. It's everything in front adding something. I also don't think there are any perfectly flat colorless headphones? I may have missed something though? Of course, in a perfect world we would demand absolute transparency. Things just don't work out that way in life. Expect audio companies to both search for audio transparency and look for ways to make the sound musical. Sometimes many of us believe they actually degrade the transparency to make equipment more musical, kind of like woman's make-up.

When they first invented audio amplification and music playback it was the sound of an orchestra recreated in a house which was and still is the absolute goal of HI/Fi. (Remember that making money is also the absolute goal of HI/FI) Later in the 1970s music tried to make us even feel like we were outdoors listening to the breeze pass above us upon the wavering sides of leaves?

The reality is with any audio invention the listener has never been fully convinced of the recreated audio as truth. Never happened and never will. We can be startled at times by our minds thinking sound in the headphones are in real life but fooling us only for a brief second before our idea of reality takes over again.


Even if you spent a gazillion dollars and your complete system was ruler flat in frequency response ............1) You may not really like what you hear. And 2) there are still going to be thousands and thousands of nuances affecting your sound perception. In the end your still always going to remember it's Memorex.biggrin.gif
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/15/14 at 6:23am
post #65 of 366
Another great analogy for the Sound Science Forum would be mankind's invention of the guitar. We currently have harps in museums dated back 4500 years so we know man has had a long and intense experience with string instruments. The modern age guitar predates electricity and amplification for producing music in the home. Yet even with all of our understanding of the guitar inter-workings there is no perfect guitar in existence today. Does not exist.


What we do have is a range of guitar character and color if you wish. When a famous musician buys a 25k 1950s Gibson Les Paul guitar, he is in fact buying it for it's tone. They mix and match wood types and design aspects to create a sound. Many guitar players will end up with 20 or 30 guitars. Each guitar had a purpose. There are now portraits of guitar players like Jeff Beck or Slash and they will be in a room with 20 versions of almost the same guitar. The guitar is not perfect, but they themselves and their listeners have become used to and expect a certain sound, as that is where the romance is found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyres_of_Ur
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/15/14 at 6:56am
post #66 of 366
You are wasting your breath in here bro... biggrin.gif

On the other hand that WA5-LE must sound divine with the 300B's, are they stock or do you have the Sophia Princess mesh plates installed yet?
beerchug.gif
post #67 of 366

If you ask me, amps can't fix headphones, they can affect your immagination. I think one would be best served by picking their headphones carefully in the first case. That way one can spend their time enjoying them rather than chasing down some mythical synergy to solve the regret over their headphones. Of course some folks get joy in this pursuit/hobby, that's fine with me until it gets religious.

post #68 of 366
It's the best stupid mistakes that has got me where I am. Humans think way too much. Best to make quick purchases and make it a learning process. Over thinking is like spending an entire year wondering if you should kiss the girl. By the time you know. You can't find her.

Actually I upgraded to the Sophia Globes with the lesser warranty. I don't have the Woo 5 LE as it's at my brothers house. When I do listen to it it's great.Amps maybe don't always totally fix headphones, I agree with that. The headphones are always going to have their character but different amps and sources can change the character in slightly one direction. Maybe to the point of keeping the headphones.

I was lost driving once but found what I really needed to find. So I wonder about really being lost in the first place. That is how I look at this hobby. Everyone has their wins and losses. No way to plan or overthink what your system will end up being. It takes time to know sound that you like. You can't learn that until you hear what you don't like.


I just think there is mystery in the romance and romance in the mystery of it all.
post #69 of 366

Someone is having too good of a time tinkering. ;) Admit it, that's one way you have fun.

post #70 of 366
smily_headphones1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

Someone is having too good of a time tinkering. wink.gif  Admit it, that's one way you have fun.



I guess it depends on what financial status your at. For some it really is a form of entertainment to tinker with expensive purchases. I think the most happy here keep the same main systems. I only tinker with portable stuff nowadays. Portable headphone systems were almost invented for tinkering around with.

If you want to see photos of tinkering go to the threads on portable audio. The set-ups are often in a state of transition. Much of the time they don't have exactly what they want but they pieced this monster together and are using it. Lol
post #71 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

smily_headphones1.gif
I guess it depends on what financial status your at. For some it really is a form of entertainment to tinker with expensive purchases. I think the most happy here keep the same main systems. I only tinker with portable stuff nowadays. Portable headphone systems were almost invented for tinkering around with.

If you want to see photos of tinkering go to the threads on portable audio. The set-ups are often in a state of transition. Much of the time they don't have exactly what they want but they pieced this monster together and are using it. Lol

Yes, I've seen some of the non-portable portable concoctions.

Right now I'm tinkering with a new 8" SC Eq Telescope. Damn thing weighs a ton, not so portable. Why does it rain so much when I get anything optical?

post #72 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

Yes, I've seen some of the non-portable portable concoctions.
Right now I'm tinkering with a new 8" SC Eq Telescope. Damn thing weighs a ton, not so portable. Why does it rain so much when I get anything optical?


True tinkerers have a garage full of stuff. You know, remote control helicopters, tools, stereos. They even have projects set out and planned for the future. Lol
post #73 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post


True tinkerers have a garage full of stuff. You know, remote control helicopters, tools, stereos. They even have projects set out and planned for the future. Lol

Technology & Gadgetry Hoarders. Sounds familiar.

post #74 of 366
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Technology & Gadgetry Hoarders. Sounds familiar.

 

I need a Man Cave ASAP.

post #75 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by madwolfa View Post
 

 

I need a Man Cave ASAP.

What's the matter, the garage and attic all filled up?

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