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How is "tube sound" even audible in modern headphone amps? - Page 13

post #181 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddTheMetalGod View Post

 Also I don't know the output impedence of this amp, but since it's an OTL amp it is probably high which means that with low impedance headphones it will sound overly warm/bloomy.
 

 

Probably a bit less than 30R as a guess, at best. The 6922 (µ of 33) is used as input but the whole amp only has 10db of gain. There's almost 20db of gain available to be used as feedback which will reduce the 140R output impedance of a 6AS7 used in cathode follower.

 

It could be a bit more if there isn't as much feedback available, it depends on the chosen input stage.

post #182 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

You can get a very clean 1.2 Watt @ 32 Ohm / 260 mW @ 300 Ohm SS amp for $99 USD, the Schiit Magni.
They have another Amp, the Asgard 2 which is 1W @32 Ohms / 360 mW @ 300 Ohms for $249 USD. The distortion levels of these amps are very very low. The Asgard 2 is a Class A DC coupled design with 80V rails and no overall feedback so the design does not need negative feedback to control distortion. I have one of these and it's unbelievably awesome. It drives my HD600's as well as HE-500's to ear splitting levels, clean as a whistle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddTheMetalGod View Post

I think the problem might be that your WA3 lacks an output transformer, this makes it only suitable for high impedance, high sensitivity headphones. You might be able to get away with a low impedance, high sensitivity headphone... but you won't get the current that you need for most headphones. Also I don't know the output impedence of this amp, but since it's an OTL amp it is probably high which means that with low impedance headphones it will sound overly warm/bloomy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's an excellent amp but unless you're using headphones over 50 ohms with high sensitivity I would choose solid state.




I'm actually going to maybe be getting an Asgard One at 2 pm tomarrow. Just finishing up the negotiations a tad by email. It is one of the ones that has no hum as some of the early ones had a slight hum. So funny to see it mentioned here? So yes. I'll post my impressions here in a week or so. I think the deal will go threw as we are super close on price, nice local pickup.


These kinds of products are what has changed in Head-Fi over the last two or three years. As technology continues I think we will see more nice stuff. Just being able to get an old iPhone that will run iOS 7 makes a great digital file player. Combining that with a compatable DAC and camera connection kit was unthought of two years ago. The fact that it replayes such superior quality to many CD players is totally the future. The only issue is storage. Still some folks are using the equipment as media streamers and have their whole library at hand. We can look forward to HD media streaming for everyone in the future who want to get their personal WI/FI up to spec as well as integrating the new software inventions.
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/24/14 at 7:30am
post #183 of 366
The problem is amplifiers are one of those products that require a lot of high quality analog components (such as high quality transformers) which are mostly components that will never come down in price like the components that cheap DACs have. I'm sure it will get slightly better with time, but we have to remember that some things will always cost a lot for good quality parts.
post #184 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddTheMetalGod View Post

The problem is amplifiers are one of those products that require a lot of high quality analog components (such as high quality transformers) which are mostly components that will never come down in price like the components that cheap DACs have. I'm sure it will get slightly better with time, but we have to remember that some things will always cost a lot for good quality parts.


Some of my purchases ended up being combined with power supplys which they like to upgrade. My phono preamp has it's own optional seperate power supply and the Woo 5 and 5 LE end up having a power supply which runs on tubes and is connected to the amp with a multi-pin umbilical cord. Taking these power supplies apart lets you see that they are based on large copper wire spools and in Woos case end up being 35ibs where DACs do get smaller and smaller. After you see a high end DAC chip the size of a penny you realize that as they print em up the price will drop.

Maybe the next thing to drop would be flagship headphones. When I started here there was not even a thought of $1000 flagships. As soon as there were a couple for sale it seems that many decided to test the water with 2009-1010 being the start of 1k accepted flagships. Nice if we could see a price drop. But as headphones are more than a mass produced chip I don't think we will see it anytime soon. Of course HiFi man gives the expensive flagships a run for their money.

Schiit as an audio company has caused many a manufacture to take a look at their price and product range and think hard as to what reality is in this silly priced hobby. I don't judge stuff by cost but only by the performance I hear.
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/24/14 at 8:06am
post #185 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post


My Woo 3 is what I consider myself living with a cheap tube amp. I have only found that the HD 650 and HD 600 work with it. All other headphones result in way too much distortion. I'm not expert in solid state but I would guess you could get a pretty clean solid state amp for $500 to $600 USD.
 

You can get a number of audibly perfect solid state amps for $50-$200, depending on if you mind DIY and what headphones you want to drive. The O2 is one example of this, and I would assume the Schiit amps would also be quite competent (though I've never heard one or seen a full set of measurements to show that they are audibly flawless). There's no need to go anywhere near your $500-$600, unless you're talking about surround-capable receivers with ~100wpc or the like.

post #186 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post



I'm actually going to maybe be getting an Asgard One at 2 pm tomarrow. Just finishing up the negotiations a tad by email. It is one of the ones that has no hum as some of the early ones had a slight hum. So funny to see it mentioned here? So yes. I'll post my impressions here in a week or so. I think the deal will go threw as we are super close on price, nice local pickup.


These kinds of products are what has changed in Head-Fi over the last two or three years. As technology continues I think we will see more nice stuff. Just being able to get an old iPhone that will run iOS 7 makes a great digital file player. Combining that with a compatable DAC and camera connection kit was unthought of two years ago. The fact that it replayes such superior quality to many CD players is totally the future. The only issue is storage. Still some folks are using the equipment as media streamers and have their whole library at hand. We can look forward to HD media streaming for everyone in the future who want to get their personal WI/FI up to spec as well as integrating the new software inventions.

The original The Asgard 1, before an update, lacked an output delay relay. Make sure that this one has been updated. The Asgard 2 has further improvements (DC coupled, end to end) and supposedly a better sound. I don't have any spec's on the original, so the claim of a better sound can be more for the benefit of lab equipment rather than human beings.

post #187 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

The original The Asgard 1, before an update, lacked an output delay relay. Make sure that this one has been updated. The Asgard 2 has further improvements (DC coupled, end to end) and supposedly a better sound. I don't have any spec's on the original, so the claim of a better sound can be more for the benefit of lab equipment rather than human beings.


Thanks for the information. You would get the update by sending the amp back to Schiit? Wow. They do it for a fee?

 

So it keeps the pop from hitting the headphones when turned on?

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/613055/schiit-relays-advice-needed

 

Interesting because tube amps need to have headphones plugged in when turned on as the load is better for the tubes. Also many don't realize that the tubes can not have your hand oil on them as it causes temp variances in the glass tube wall causing a lower life span. Always use a sock over your hand when touching tubes, hot or cold. Also they should not be moved when hot as just like lights, the metal is weaker when hot. This is how car lights burn out from motion of car jiggling up and down.


Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/24/14 at 8:00pm
post #188 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post


Thanks for the information. You would get the update by sending the amp back to Schiit? Wow. They do it for a fee?

So it keeps the pop from hitting the headphones when turned on?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/613055/schiit-relays-advice-needed

Interesting because tube amps need to have headphones plugged in when turned on as the load is better for the tubes. Also many don't realize that the tubes can not have your hand oil on them as it causes temp variances in the glass tube wall causing a lower life span. Always use a sock over your hand when touching tubes, hot or cold. Also they should not be moved when hot as just like lights, the metal is weaker when hot. This is how car lights burn out from motion of car jiggling up and down.




No worries it has the relay. Should have it at 5pm tonight if everything goes as planned. Thx again.

Edit:

Here it is. I'll post my thoughts in a week or so.


My first piece of Schiit. A later Asgard with no transformer mechanical hum. It has the 10 second relay so no headphone pop, put in when made.
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/25/14 at 2:55am
post #189 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post


No worries it has the relay. Should have it at 5pm tonight if everything goes as planned. Thx again.

Edit:

Here it is. I'll post my thoughts in a week or so. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



My first piece of Schiit. A later Asgard with no transformer mechanical hum. It has the 10 second relay so no headphone pop, put in when made.

Looks like you got your Schiit together. Next, get an A/B switch so you can compare two amps with the same pair of headphones. If both amps are of good quality, you carefully match volumes and then start flipping the switch, you will be in for a surprise. Of course both amps should be capable of driving the headphones.

post #190 of 366

Never buy any expensive amp without a no questions asked money back guarantee attached... you never know when you might be surprised.

post #191 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

Looks like you got your Schiit together. Next, get an A/B switch so you can compare two amps with the same pair of headphones. If both amps are of good quality, you carefully match volumes and then start flipping the switch, you will be in for a surprise. Of course both amps should be capable of driving the headphones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Never buy any expensive amp without a no questions asked money back guarantee attached... you never know when you might be surprised.







As said I'll actually post a nice little review here. My main source is actually in the shop now so I will hopefully be getting that back. I still use an old Rega Planet as my reference 44.1 X 16 bit CD player.


I'm just so used to hearing the same CDs out of the player that after all these years it helps me really hear stuff I feel.


So far the CDs played on a Pioneer DVD DV-220KV have helped me form preliminary opinions but it's safe to say at moderate volume and towards loud the $249 Asgard is a new age in audio value. Sorry I'm so late to the party.smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by Redcarmoose - 6/26/14 at 12:31am
post #192 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post



As said I'll actually post a nice little review here. My main source is actually in the shop now so I will hopefully be getting that back. I still use an old Rega Planet as my reference 44.1 X 16 bit CD player.


I'm just so used to hearing the same CDs out of the player that after all these years it helps me really hear stuff I feel.


So far the CDs played on a Pioneer DVD DV-220KV have helped me form preliminary opinions but it's safe to say at moderate volume and towards loud the $249 Asgard is a new age in audio value. Sorry I'm so late to the party.smily_headphones1.gif

Better late than never. :regular_smile : 

The Asgard 2 has even less distortion, only I don't think anyone can hear the difference because the A1 is already better than we can hear.


Edited by StanD - 6/26/14 at 3:29am
post #193 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

And correcting is not always best to everybody's ears.

yeap, my w1000x is very colored, and it sounds great with equally and oppisitely colored sources xD

post #194 of 366

Could you please move that discussion to one of the appropriate gear-porn threads ?

Trust me, you really don't want to post a 'amp-review' in the 'Sound-science'-thread -

Unless you have measurements to show ..

post #195 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bufferoverflow View Post

Could you please move that discussion to one of the appropriate gear-porn threads ?
Trust me, you really don't want to post a 'amp-review' in the 'Sound-science'-thread -
Unless you have measurements to show ..

Controlled Listening tests are npt measurements but do have a place in the science section. Please don't discourage anyone from potentially contributing or even participating in the science forum just beacuse you disagree with their point of view.

We want everybody to feel welcome to come here and participate in an honest and openminded fashion.

Cheers
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