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Best audio combination for on line pc gamer and rock in roll listener - Page 2

post #16 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


First, there are minor differences between those graphs that would slightly impact how they sound.

However, you are also misunderstanding how one can use frequency response graphs. Frequency response graphs don't tell one crap about things like transient response, compression, or distortion, all of which would affect bass sound quality.

Go look at the different DT880 measurements at Innerfidelity, learn how the other measurements function, and you'll understand how those headphones could sound different.

 

The minor differences are just that - minor. Minor enough that if you took 2 dt990 pro 250ohm and measured them, the differences would probably be just as minor as these.

 

Transient response, compression and distortion are all well and good but we are talking about the exact same drivers here, so bass sound quality would not change unless the cup design is radically different, which it isn't apart from minor cosmetic changes which do not affect the sound.

 

Also, I speak from the experience of having listened to both and compared them first hand. There are no differences in sound quality between the 250ohm and the 600ohm versions.

 

Here is a good topic if you're interested:

 

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=93513


Edited by elmoe - 5/21/14 at 12:27pm
post #17 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post
 

 

Audio-GD NFB-15, external DAC/amp, $255+shipping.

Audio-GD will list the value as $100, with the shipper, so there should be a low import tax.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm


Thanks for your suggestions I know very little in regards to audio have found in the past when in this situation its best to  spend a little more money and go with a known and well documented product like the Xonar Essence One. As for the 200 ohm's or the 600 ohm's I'll look for a used pair of 600 ohm DT990's if not available may buy a different make.

post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

There may be a noticeable difference to you, but a frequency response graph doesn't lie - there is absolutely none...

Frequency response graph can ONLY show you the tonality. Neither the Resolution, nor the soundstage, and not the Quality. ONLY tonality. Nothing else.

post #19 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

Frequency response graph can ONLY show you the tonality. Neither the Resolution, nor the soundstage, and not the Quality. ONLY tonality. Nothing else.

 

Once again, we are talking about the same headphone, in the same cup design, with the same exact drivers (parts # match). Resolution, soundstage, quality, are all alike in this context.

post #20 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

 

Once again, we are talking about the same headphone, in the same cup design, with the same exact drivers (parts # match). Resolution, soundstage, quality, are all alike in this context.

Noone said, a 600 Ohm version would be a complete new headphone.

But there ARE quality differences, you will never see in a frequency graph.

post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

Frequency response graph can ONLY show you the tonality. Neither the Resolution, nor the soundstage, and not the Quality. ONLY tonality. Nothing else.


Amen...Thank you. Many people seem to think that eq can fix all the problems. That it is all about the FR. Well put sir, I agree with you whole heartedly.

post #22 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseth View Post
 

Noone said, a 600 Ohm version would be a complete new headphone.

But there ARE quality differences, you will never see in a frequency graph.

 

You seem to misunderstand how impedance works. Higher impedance doesn't = higher quality. There are no quality difference between the 250ohm and 600ohm versions. Once again:

 

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=93513

 

As for your previous post:

 

Resolution is entirely dependent on frequency response. The more resolved the sound, the flatter the frequency response. Soundstage would only be affected by a different driver or cup design. It's not the case here. "Quality", what does that even mean? Headphones have no impact on the sound quality of your music, they reproduce sounds more or less well, but if the frequency response is the same, then both headphones do just as well reproducing your music, period.

 

It's about time to stop the hocus pocus pseudo-science. Do a double blind test between both headphones and see if you can tell them apart (hint: you can't).


Edited by elmoe - 5/23/14 at 12:49am
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

It's about time to stop the hocus pocus pseudo-science.

Really? Did you even bother to look at the DT880 measurements I linked to? If so, already have your answer that they won't sound the same. But since you seem to determined to rationalize whatever you can to support your opinion, Tyll already addressed this on Innerfidelity with an explanation you ought to be able to understand. Because of the different impedance, the different models respond differently to the amplification. You can read about it here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

Or you could ignore it and continue to act like everyone else is an idiot if you really want. rolleyes.gif
post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


Really? Did you even bother to look at the DT880 measurements I linked to? If so, already have your answer that they won't sound the same. But since you seem to determined to rationalize whatever you can to support your opinion, Tyll already addressed this on Innerfidelity with an explanation you ought to be able to understand. Because of the different impedance, the different models respond differently to the amplification. You can read about it here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones

Or you could ignore it and continue to act like everyone else is an idiot if you really want. rolleyes.gif

 

Not only did I bother looking, I read that whole topic back when it was first made, it's nothing new. Once again, obviously, different impedance headphones with the same design will respond differently depending on amplification (I'm repeating myself here but you seem to click that Reply button without reading what's been said).

 

The point is that the 250ohm and 600ohm versions, both amplified properly, sound the same. Now if you're going to use your iPod to drive both headphones, clearly the 250ohm is likely to come out on top simply because the iPod will have trouble driving the 600ohm version. That's once again completely besides the point - ultimately, higher impedance = higher quality is a load of crap as it is strictly dependent on your amp's capability to drive the headphones in the first place. Damping factor only comes into play if your amp is incapable of driving the 600ohm version to begin with, but with an amp capable of driving both headphones, the differences in sound quality are inexistent.

 

Now, let's put an end to your condescending tone. As for Tyll's version of things, if you read the comments underneath the article, when someone argues about his methods, this is what he has to say:

 

Quote:
 I'd say hearing the differences between the two higher impedance cans more likely a placebo effect thing.

 

Enough said.

 

Are we done arguing your pseudo-science now? One more question: have you ever compared the DT990 250ohm and the 600ohm versions yourself? Have you ever even heard the DT990?


Edited by elmoe - 5/23/14 at 3:33am
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

The point is that the 250ohm and 600ohm versions, both amplified properly, sound the same.

Read it again. If you hook the 250 and 600 ohm headphones up to the same amp, they will never sound the same. They will always respond differently to the same amplifier.
post #26 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


Read it again. If you hook the 250 and 600 ohm headphones up to the same amp, they will never sound the same. They will always respond differently to the same amplifier.

 

You read it again:

 

Quote:
 I'd say hearing the differences between the two higher impedance cans more likely a placebo effect thing.

 

This is from the man who wrote the article himself. Unless the particular amp you're hooking them to is deficient in some way, then no they will absolutely not sound different in any way.

post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

This is from the man who wrote the article himself. Unless the particular amp you're hooking them to is deficient in some way, then no they will absolutely not sound different in any way.

He didn't say that. He said "more likely," not absolutely. His measurements DO show some differences. Now some people might interpret the difference in sound as not significant, while others might because difference is relative to individual preference when subjectively evaluated.
post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


He didn't say that. He said "more likely," not absolutely. His measurements DO show some differences. Now some people might interpret the difference in sound as not significant, while others might because difference is relative to individual preference when subjectively evaluated.

 

Subjective evaluation is meaningless. More likely a placebo means that he isn't sure at all there even is any difference, in which case there simply isn't any. His measurements do not show differences that could in any way alter the sound signatures. The only differences his measurements show are that dampening factor can come into play depending on amping, which is irrelevant if your amp can drive both headphones properly in the first place. Not to mention this is DT880 we're talking about and not the DT990.

 

Difference is relative to individual preferences? Now that's the best joke I've heard all day, especially coming from a guy who's never heard the headphones he's arguing about to begin with. It's pointless arguing with you, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

Subjective evaluation is meaningless. . .

I suppose you choose your food based on measurements alone? (lol) Subjective evaluation is important because headphone choice is ultimately (should be) an aesthetic experience. Measurements can often only take one part of the way there--or maybe a lot of the way there. But when measurements indicate a possibility of audible difference, subjectivity can be the deciding critical factor, and that aesthetic evaluation is relative to listener preferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

Difference is relative to individual preferences? Now that's the best joke I've heard all day, especially coming from a guy who's never heard the headphones he's arguing about to begin with. It's pointless arguing with you, you simply don't know what you're talking about.

I only argue with you so that you can show off even more how disrespectful you are of others opinions, which pretty much guarantees fewer people will listen to you. evil_smiley.gif
post #30 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


I suppose you choose your food based on measurements alone? (lol) Subjective evaluation is important because headphone choice is ultimately (should be) an aesthetic experience. Measurements can often only take one part of the way there--or maybe a lot of the way there. But when measurements indicate a possibility of audible difference, subjectivity can be the deciding critical factor, and that aesthetic evaluation is relative to listener preferences.
I only argue with you so that you can show off even more how disrespectful you are of others opinions, which pretty much guarantees fewer people will listen to you. evil_smiley.gif

 

This is all nice and good but we're not comparing food, or different headphones. We're comparing two headphones with exactly the same parts, of different impedance. If you had any kind of idea of what you're talking about, you would've quit a long time ago.

 

You can find me disrespectful if you wish, but I'll reiterate once more: this is not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of facts. There is no subjectivity that comes into play here, it's exactly the same as if you were arguing that 2+2 = 5 when I kept showing you that it equals 4.

 

Your goal to guarantee fewer people listen to me is certainly counter-productive, but since that's your reason for keeping this pointless debate going, you'll have to do it without me. I don't mind one bit arguing about my hobby if it's done out of actual interest, but I've been done with high school for decades now, so you can go on and aim your petty goals of bickering at someone who'll actually take you seriously. The facts of the matter have been exposed, if you want to keep howling at the moon, that's your prerogative.

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