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How's this for mid end computer audio? - Page 3

post #31 of 35
I will just repeat. I would strongly encourage you to go learn from home audio enthusiasts about subwoofer choice, integration, and placement before going forward with your plans for integrating subwoofers into speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac View Post

In any case the reason why I'm going for "Frankenstein" subs is because there is a reliable speaker fabricator in my city (well, on the opposite end of the metro actually - we don't have the same mayor) that can help me out with this, especially with crossover designs and finish (not likely as I plan on using paint, for reasons that will be discussed below). I want to explore omnidirectional speakers given the room shape which is a a very wide rectangle, meaning there will be people too far from the opposite side mains; this is in the house I'm in right now but even a larger room closer to a square if I build my own house later will still benefit from properly-designed omnis. That same shape of  the room can also be a problem for the sub. Unless I can put the sub in the center of the room. Like I said a few posts ago, even though a sub is generally omnipolar, it doesn't mean it is impossible to localize.

The other reason that I forgot to mention as to why I am designing the speakers as such is because if I  do get to build my own house, I want the living room to be the HT room. Again, I am not after absolutely perfect acoustics, but I am still minimizing very problematic ones instead of just throwing an HTiB in there, but the main priority for me is that I see HT as a very social thing where people can sit down, watch movies or play video games, and have easier access to the kitchen (unlike my 2ch rig which will be hidden away in a room inside another room for sound isolation, where I can listen loud or be tortured in a home invasion and no one will hear me). Putting the HT in a room, more so a room on the upper floor as in the library that I might convert (thanks to digital books) in this house, means that we are too far from the kitchen, and I'll have to tell everyone to get rid of their shoes before going up the stairs since we don't track outdoor muck from under our footwear around the upper areas; not even our pets can be there unless they're fresh out of the shower (and all litterboxes are downstairs). Speaking of pets, there's the practical reason for the omni speakers: it's a lot easier for them to scratch the drivers if they're on the front. No speaker grill will stop a cat with claws climbing up them, whereas a grill to cover the space between the diffuser and the driver will have more space between them and the surrounds. Finish on the speakers will necessarily need to be tough while maintaining some degree of elegance inside a house -  like coating the wood enclosure with fiberglass to protect from moisture (you never know when they'll cough up a hairball on it, or piss on them if they're sick) then coated with auto paint or something.

Oh and one more thing with "Frankenstein" subs: the enclosure design. Even the subs great for music are designed with the need to make Transformers and LOTR exciting for buyers, but from my (admittedly not as wide) experience with home subwoofers, I would need to spend a lot of cash just to get one that can keep up with the mains on Dream Theater: Live at the Budokan and Kamelot: One Cold Winter's Night, like JL Gothams. If I "Frankenstein" my subwoofers, I can use a relatively high-Q sub that does well in a sealed box if necessary for my goals (although a small ported one will do, but have the slot port exhaust on the same side as the woofer baffle), design it to reinforce the lower notes on really fast double-pedal bass drum action, while the surface area of the sub for the most part as well as turning it up when necessary (movies like LOTR, Star Wars, Transformers, etc) will still have a heck of a lot of improvement over not having any subwoofers (even with quality towers). Essentially, instead of, say, JL Gothams, I can just get a used pair of 8W7 or 8W3V3 (just as an example; I'll still use home audio sub drivers) and get them on enclosures with the aforementioned design parameters.
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I will just repeat. I would strongly encourage you to go learn from home audio enthusiasts about subwoofer choice, integration, and placement before going forward with your plans for integrating subwoofers into speakers.

 

And I'll repeat too - such integration isn't easy, which is why in some set-ups one can forgo the sub, while in others, such integration needs to be done properly.

post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac View Post

And I'll repeat too - such integration isn't easy, which is why in some set-ups one can forgo the sub, while in others, such integration needs to be done properly.

The heart of an HT setup is the subwoofer(s). There is no way to forgo it. There is no .1 in 5.1 without a sub.
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


The heart of an HT setup is the subwoofer(s). There is no way to forgo it. There is no .1 in 5.1 without a sub.

 

And if you go back and read my posts, some of the cases cited were for 2ch use (heck the OP is 2ch), and that whenever I do discuss surround sound HT systems, I never said you don't use a sub there because I know what "5.1" means. When I mentioned (and I'm not sure if it's this thread and I'm already wasting a lot of energy repeating myself) that I've used a 2ch system in the room where the TV is, I knew that it wasn't "surround," I did it because those speakers were still better than the TV speakers, and just because I did not upgrade to a 5.1 on that system does not mean I am saying 5.0. You only took it to mean that I also meant 5.1 becoming 5.0 because you need to reply to something and come out on top, like Dracula in Dead and Loving it.

 

In fact, if you cared to understand my posts, I have been saying the same things as you, except you reply argumentatively whereas I am stating other factors that went into these ideas. First, if I didn't think a sub was important, then why would I want to have a sub in my planned HT system in the first place? Or why I would want to design the sub so that it would do Dream Theater bass guitar and double bass pedal drums instead of just switching off the sub and going fullrange on the speakers? Just because I am using "Frankenstein" subwoofers does not mean "no subwoofers," given in such a system there exists something that you were able to label "Frankenstein" to begin with. There is a sub, it just won't be a sub that is either too expensive or was designed to work even just a little bit more to knock the windows off when reproducing an explosion or a fighter whooshing past, but designing a sub whose primary design parameter is Dream Theater and rely on the added surface area to make Michael Bay's work still knock our socks off (or in other words, a sub suggested by a fan of the brand).

 

Again, just to recap:

Point 1 : What we can both agree on is that a sub needs to be integrated well.

Point 2 : I simply add that that isn't simple, in some cases there are other factors that need to be considered such as the room, the rest of the system, and some other needs (I am not retyping all that when it's all here)

 

Point 3 : All systems as designed do so with compromises, and in my examples, room size and other characteristics, cost, and other needs can mean compromising on one aspect of the reproduction - such as flat or really loud all the way down to 20hz because it's only a secondary HT set-up in the bedroom, or when specific music (at a lower cost for the subs) is the priority over action flicks

 

 

--------

 

Signing out for this series of posts - I can only retype what I've posted so many times before I get frustrated and wonder if this shows up in other people's screens in my handwriting instead of Arial, repeating myself to anyone thinking he has to repeat himself to me when I've been trying to advance the discussion and such points just get binned.


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 5/22/14 at 3:41am
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac View Post

In fact, if you cared to understand my posts, I have been saying the same things as you, except you reply argumentatively whereas I am stating other factors that went into these ideas.

Actually, go reread my reply to your post #30. It was just a repeat of my recommendation that you learn more about about subwoofer choice and integration because I very much believe that building subwoofers into towers is a very flawed concept for generating subbass in a room. I also feel strongly that the AVS subwoofer forum has a lot to offer anyone looking to build an audio setup that is considering subwoofers, particularly someone who previously attempted to integrate a subwoofer into their home audio setup but had a poor experience. You are welcome to ignore that recommendation, but it was merely a recommendation, and I had hoped it would be perceived as an attempt to avoid argument. If upon rereading it, you don't feel that way, let me assure you that was the attempt, and it was encouragement aimed at trying to help you.
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