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Brand Spanking New A&K AK120II and AK100II - Page 42

post #616 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanter View Post

Well I'm sure those who are looking at the 240 as a standalone DAP isn't interested in a transport, especially given the price of this thing..

The point is comparing the two is irrelevant IMHO. Since all DAPs feed to Hugo will get the same results...prefers the Hugo as said.
post #617 of 4084
Ak 120 II is available at Jaben Hong Kong WOOOW

HomeProduct List PlayeriRiver
Product Name:AK120II
Price:HKD 13800.00
General Specifications
Model
Body Color
Body Material
Display
Supported Audio Formats
Sample rate
Output Level
DAC
Decoding
Input
Outputs
Wi-Fi
Bluetooth
Dimensions
Weight
Feature Enhancements
AK120Ⅱ
Stone Silver
Aluminum
3.31inch WVGA (480 x 800) AMOLED Touchscreen
WAV, FLAC, WMA, MP3, OGG, APE(Normal, High, Fast), AAC, ALAC, AIFF, DFF, DSF
FLAC, WAV, ALAC, AIFF : 8kHz ~ 192kHz (8/16/24bits per Sample)
/ DSD : DSD64 (1bit 2.8MHz), Stereo / DSD128 (1bit 5.6MHz), Stereo
Unbalance 2.1Vrms / Balance 2.3Vrms (Condition No Load)
Cirrus Logic CS4398 x2 (Dual DAC)
Support up to 24bit/192kHz Bit to Bit Decoding
USB Micro-B input (for charging & data transfer (PC & MAC))
/ Connection Mode : MTP (Media Device)
PHONES (3.5mm) / Optical Out (3.5mm) / Balanced Out (2.5mm, only 4-pole supported)
802.11 b/g/n (2.4GHz)
V4.0
2.16 ”(55 mm) [W] x 4.64 ”(118 mm) [H] x 0.58 ”(14.9 mm) [D]
6.24 oz (177 g)
Firmware upgrades supported (OTA)
Audio Performance
Frequency Response
Signal to Noise Ratio
Crosstalk
THD+N
IMD SMPTE
Output Impedance
±0.023dB (Condition: 20Hz~20kHz) Unbalance & Balance
/ ±0.3dB (Condition: 10Hz~70kHz) Unbalance & Balance
116dB @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 117dB @ 1kHz, Balance
130dB @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 135dB @ 1kHz, Balance
0.0007% @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 0.0005% @ 1kHz, Balance
0.0004% 800Hz 10kHz(4:1) Unbalance / 0.0003% 800Hz 10kHz(4:1) Balance
Balanced out 2.5mm (1ohm) / PHONES 3.5mm (2ohm)
Clock source
Clock Jitter
50ps (Typ)
Battery
Capacity
3,250mAh 3.7V Li-Polymer Battery
Memory
Built-in Memory
External Memory
128GB [NAND]
microSD (Max 128GB) x1
OS
Supported OS
Windows XP, Windows 7,8 (32/64bit), MAC OS X 10.7 and up

post #618 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by flymetothemoon View Post

The point is comparing the two is irrelevant IMHO. Since all DAPs feed to Hugo will get the same results...prefers the Hugo as said.

I don't know what your point is, I wasn't comparing Hugo's performance on different DAPs. The point is people who are looking for a standalone unit is not interested in adding a stack to it. That said, the best standalone DAP subjective or not is AK240 or HM901 at the moment. Regardless whether Hugo sounds better or not.
post #619 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudi0504 View Post

Ak 120 II is available at Jaben Hong Kong WOOOW

I like the skinnier form factor, although they added bulk to it's height.  Wasn't the original AK120 dual Wolfson?  So it has the same dual chips(CS4398) as the AK240. With lower output impedance of 2ohms.  I wonder how the AK120II competes with the 240(has the same dual chipset)?


Edited by SilverEars - 6/8/14 at 8:53am
post #620 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudi0504 View Post

Ak 120 II is available at Jaben Hong Kong WOOOW

HomeProduct List PlayeriRiver
Product Name:AK120II
Price:HKD 13800.00
General Specifications
Model
Body Color
Body Material
Display
Supported Audio Formats
Sample rate
Output Level
DAC
Decoding
Input
Outputs
Wi-Fi
Bluetooth
Dimensions
Weight
Feature Enhancements
AK120Ⅱ
Stone Silver
Aluminum
3.31inch WVGA (480 x 800) AMOLED Touchscreen
WAV, FLAC, WMA, MP3, OGG, APE(Normal, High, Fast), AAC, ALAC, AIFF, DFF, DSF
FLAC, WAV, ALAC, AIFF : 8kHz ~ 192kHz (8/16/24bits per Sample)
/ DSD : DSD64 (1bit 2.8MHz), Stereo / DSD128 (1bit 5.6MHz), Stereo
Unbalance 2.1Vrms / Balance 2.3Vrms (Condition No Load)
Cirrus Logic CS4398 x2 (Dual DAC)
Support up to 24bit/192kHz Bit to Bit Decoding
USB Micro-B input (for charging & data transfer (PC & MAC))
/ Connection Mode : MTP (Media Device)
PHONES (3.5mm) / Optical Out (3.5mm) / Balanced Out (2.5mm, only 4-pole supported)
802.11 b/g/n (2.4GHz)
V4.0
2.16 ”(55 mm) [W] x 4.64 ”(118 mm) [H] x 0.58 ”(14.9 mm) [D]
6.24 oz (177 g)
Firmware upgrades supported (OTA)
Audio Performance
Frequency Response
Signal to Noise Ratio
Crosstalk
THD+N
IMD SMPTE
Output Impedance
±0.023dB (Condition: 20Hz~20kHz) Unbalance & Balance
/ ±0.3dB (Condition: 10Hz~70kHz) Unbalance & Balance
116dB @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 117dB @ 1kHz, Balance
130dB @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 135dB @ 1kHz, Balance
0.0007% @ 1kHz, Unbalance / 0.0005% @ 1kHz, Balance
0.0004% 800Hz 10kHz(4:1) Unbalance / 0.0003% 800Hz 10kHz(4:1) Balance
Balanced out 2.5mm (1ohm) / PHONES 3.5mm (2ohm)
Clock source
Clock Jitter
50ps (Typ)
Battery
Capacity
3,250mAh 3.7V Li-Polymer Battery
Memory
Built-in Memory
External Memory
128GB [NAND]
microSD (Max 128GB) x1
OS
Supported OS
Windows XP, Windows 7,8 (32/64bit), MAC OS X 10.7 and up

 
A very elegant machine.
post #621 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I like the skinnier form factor, although they added bulk to it's height.  Wasn't the original AK120 dual Wolfson?  So it has the same dual chips(CS4398) as the AK240. With lower output impedance of 2ohms.  I wonder how the AK120II competes with the 240(has the same dual chipset)?

 

It's less smooth, has less detail and the AK240 sound more analog while the 120II sound more digital if that makes sense.

I prefer my AK120II for looks but the SQ of the 240 is just simply better. It's the best DAP I have heard without external dacs and amps, even with the Audeze and Hifimans and my custom IEMs

post #622 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanter View Post


I don't know what your point is, I wasn't comparing Hugo's performance on different DAPs. The point is people who are looking for a standalone unit is not interested in adding a stack to it. That said, the best standalone DAP subjective or not is AK240 or HM901 at the moment. Regardless whether Hugo sounds better or not.

Sorry Levanter.  

 

I must make myself clear as I was referring to 7Ryder's thread as AK240 is a DAP but not a mobile DAC/Amp so my point is same as yours...comparing a DAP with DAC/Amp is irrelevant.

 

:beerchug:

post #623 of 4084

I was looking through their design and noticed for single ended, it's just one DAC implementation.  The two DACs are for balanced mode.  They use common mode noise rejection.  DX90 has dual ESS, but it for signal ended.  :rolleyes: Which made no sense to me, for AK it does make sense for balanced mode and common mode noise rejection.

 

You guys notice improvements in balanced mode?


Edited by SilverEars - 6/8/14 at 9:04am
post #624 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I was looking through their design and noticed for single ended, it's just one DAC implementation.  The two DACs are for balanced mode.  They use common mode noise rejection.  DX90 has dual ESS, but it for signal ended.  :rolleyes: Which made no sense to me, for AK it does make sense for balanced mode and common mode noise rejection.

 

You guys notice improvements in balanced mode?

Could you please explain more as this is very technical and have no knowledge to understand the meaning of your descriptions.  

 

Cheers

post #625 of 4084

Duals are not needed for balanced as the 8740 and 4398 are balanced dacs that have outputs for L+ L- R+ R-.  I believe the 90182M is also balanced but ESS hasn't released the pinout and they use "interesting" terms in their block diagram ;)

post #626 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by flymetothemoon View Post
 

Sorry Levanter.  

 

I must make myself clear as I was referring to 7Ryder's thread as AK240 is a DAP but not a mobile DAC/Amp so my point is same as yours...comparing a DAP with DAC/Amp is irrelevant.

 

:beerchug:

Like I said, "depending upon what you are looking for"

 

...if all someone wants is a DAP that will fit in one's pocket, then of course the AK240 might be the way to go.  However, if someone doesn't care as much about the form factor, given that they cost essentially the same, people should also audition the Hugo and let the best SQ win.  Cheers.

post #627 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by flymetothemoon View Post
 

Could you please explain more as this is very technical and have no knowledge to understand the meaning of your descriptions.  

 

Cheers

Common mode noise rejection is where you have two paths for the same signal but opposite(180 phase shifted), and at the end taken the difference between the two, which subtracts out the noise that was picked up in the circuitry after the signal was duplicated for the two paths.  That's what the website shows, and for balanced it uses that applications.

post #628 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 

Duals are not needed for balanced as the 8740 and 4398 are balanced dacs that have outputs for L+ L- R+ R-.  I believe the 90182M is also balanced but ESS hasn't released the pinout and they use "interesting" terms in their block diagram ;)

This is correct.  Looked at the data sheet for CS4398, left and right are both differential mode in the single ship.  Don't know why AK showing dual DACs or using dual. Possibly for isolation, but I think it's more to do with marketing for audiophiles.  It's like this, AK100II  is single DAC, and 120II is dual, so 120 is better.  ;)  People will be more inclined to go for the dual.  The noise rejection is done in the device with common mode, and don't see the point of balanced cabling.


Edited by SilverEars - 6/8/14 at 9:53am
post #629 of 4084
This leads to a question that bothers me for a long time.
TOTL DACs tend to have multiple chips that each is capable of decoding multichannel music.
Yet the chips are used for decoding dual channel and even single channel for each DAC chip.
Does dual DAC chip really make a difference, then?
post #630 of 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexxarCHL View Post

This leads to a question that bothers me for a long time.
TOTL DACs tend to have multiple chips that each is capable of decoding multichannel music.
Yet the chips are used for decoding dual channel and even single channel for each DAC chip.
Does dual DAC chip really make a difference, then?

ES9018 has 8 channels, and if you look in the data sheet, it shows why there are 8 channels as it can be applied to surround sound applications.  The audio application for headphones are two channel.  The multiple DACs is marketing.  A consumer not familiar with signal tech, will think it's like dual processors, and think more than one is better.  There is no reason for dual 9018 in HM-901 and also the dual mobile version in DX90.  If somebody can provide a good reason let me know as I keep my mind open for possibilites.  

 

Fiio does not pitch that with the X5 as it only utilizes one DAC, and lets you know of that.


Edited by SilverEars - 6/8/14 at 10:23am
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