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Why 24 bit audio and anything over 48k is not only worthless, but bad for music. - Page 37

post #541 of 548

Um yea if he isn't sure I am. How in this day and age can you not spot compression. Oh is it because it's become so common place. I start with how it sounds. I try and get high res versions and if they don't sound better or good I move on. I don't care what it's labeled it has to sound good.

post #542 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post
 

Um yea if he isn't sure I am. How in this day and age can you not spot compression. Oh is it because it's become so common place. I start with how it sounds. I try and get high res versions and if they don't sound better or good I move on. I don't care what it's labeled it has to sound good.

Well you still didn't say how you could tell by staring at the comparison figure.  

post #543 of 548

Um because it's compressed....dude it's the internet just do a search audio compression and view pic results. Actually search Loudness Wars Compression and then you'll see, read an article on it too. It's destroyed modern music almost completely if you ask me.

 

Anyway another thing I'll add is as much as I am into high res , really I got into high res because of the surround formats. What it can do to a properly mixed nice recording is amazing. Whole other level greatness.

 

 

Anyway having my new setup with Aune T1 feeding a bottlehead crack the sound is beyond amazing even when listening to a plain cd. I wouldn't trade my setup and headphones for anything I can't see how the sound could be better honestly. Well ok more sub bass but anyway. Cheers.

post #544 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post
 

Um because it's compressed....dude it's the internet just do a search audio compression and view pic results. Actually search Loudness Wars Compression and then you'll see, read an article on it too. It's destroyed modern music almost completely if you ask me.

 

Anyway another thing I'll add is as much as I am into high res , really I got into high res because of the surround formats. What it can do to a properly mixed nice recording is amazing. Whole other level greatness.

 

 

Anyway having my new setup with Aune T1 feeding a bottlehead crack the sound is beyond amazing even when listening to a plain cd. I wouldn't trade my setup and headphones for anything I can't see how the sound could be better honestly. Well ok more sub bass but anyway. Cheers.

There's only one problem with your analysis: what you're seeing is a magnitude vs. time response. What that graph was showing was time vs. frequency response. It's incredibly easy to notice compression in time domain, but not frequency domain, as your examples point to.

 

In fact, if you make the Y-axis the same on that referenced graph and lop off everything after 20k, you'll see that there actually isn't much difference. Take a look at the following graph: the FLAC one is blurry because I stretched it such that 20k aligns with the 20k of the MP3, but even then:

 

 

This isn't compression going on here, or even if it is, it's so damn hard to see in frequency domain, you really should use time domain (as all your examples do). I mean, of course, all the stuff above 22k is dead for MP3, but who cares?

 

That being said, yes, audio compression is a big problem, but probably because of the music I listen to, I don't face it as often as you guys might (assuming you guys being rock fans or whatnot).


Edited by dazzerfong - 6/22/15 at 2:30am
post #545 of 548

The purpose of compression is to compressing the top frequencies for a fixed time although this leaves the quieter frequencies alone as determined by the threshold set on the compressor. What really kills dynamics is a brickwall limiter where the whole audio is fed into a limiter which basically increases the perceived volume for a set time and attenuating any peak transients by the said amount past the digital ceiling (threshold). This is where limiters that work on the K-System excel at giving you the best of the both worlds. TC Electronics use a LU (Loudness Units) Volume system which is similar however uses different techniques.

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm

 

You can't really tell from a waveform display what frequencies are being boosted or subtracted, you need a spectrogram or use some other form of spectrum analysis. Essentially all this pernickety behaviour belongs to people who work closely with audio recording. The trade off is people get better sounding recordings unless you listen to loud dance music where loud is proud.

 

Compression essentially, reduces the loudness peak volumes at a set level by a set time. This cause a reduction in dynamic range whenever it's used. There are different forms of macrodynamics however compression is better added to music during the recording process rather than later. AFAIK 


Edited by interpolate - 6/22/15 at 2:11pm
post #546 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by interpolate View Post
 

The purpose of compression is to compressing the top frequencies for a fixed time although this leaves the quieter frequencies alone as determined by the threshold set on the compressor. What really kills dynamics is a brickwall limiter where the whole audio is fed into a limiter which basically increases the perceived volume for a set time and attenuating any peak transients by the said amount past the digital ceiling (threshold). This is where limiters that work on the K-System excel at giving you the best of the both worlds. TC Electronics use a LU (Loudness Units) Volume system which is similar however uses different techniques.

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm

 

You can't really tell from a waveform display what frequencies are being boosted or subtracted, you need a spectrogram or use some other form of spectrum analysis. Essentially all this pernickety behaviour belongs to people who work closely with audio recording. The trade off is people get better sounding recordings unless you listen to loud dance music where loud is proud.

 

Compression essentially, reduces the loudness peak volumes at a set level by a set time. This cause a reduction in dynamic range whenever it's used. There are different forms of macrodynamics however compression is better added to music during the recording process rather than later. AFAIK 

But here's the thing: it's a hell of a lot easier to spot brickwalling when it's just magnitude as opposed to frequency, especially when a spectrogram has 3 things going on at once which just confuses an inexperienced person more.

post #547 of 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerfong View Post
 

But here's the thing: it's a hell of a lot easier to spot brickwalling when it's just magnitude as opposed to frequency, especially when a spectrogram has 3 things going on at once which just confuses an inexperienced person more.

 

 

There's a real syntactic glitch above. Magnitude and frequency are both orthogonal and co-existing properties. You always have both, so there is no either/or relationship between them.

 

Spectrograms are plots of frequency versus magnitude versus time,. If you have something else, then it is not a spectrogram.

post #548 of 548

It's like a new whole language this topic.

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