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The Hardest hitting Headphones are.. ( "The EXTREME BASS Club") - Page 5

post #61 of 9076
Thread Starter 

Moved 


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/18/14 at 3:56am
post #62 of 9076
The shipping charges are ridiculous. Unless those 77's can fit into a box 8.62"X5.38"X1.62", then its going to cost 50$ to ship instead of 20$. frown.gif
post #63 of 9076
Well... If you could remove the cups, and lay them flat in the box somehow, then it would be 20$.
post #64 of 9076
Thread Starter 

Hawaiibadboy's Educational video #1:D

 

 

 

Unedited from start to finish of exactly what I'm doing.

post #65 of 9076
Thread Starter 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/573826/the-basshead-club/9701

 

March 6, 2014

 

Quote:
  I am listening to a set right now that has me grinning ear to ear because they maybe just dethroned my 77's. If I had not heard them by chance I wouldn't have them and if I had gone by a thread on here I probably would not have gotten them either. They are monsters. They are physically rattling my head as I type and I'm almost giggling.........so much for experience.

 

Despite living in the old basshead thread I had never once been told about these:blink:

 

When on to have a variety of cans including the Q40 compared in bass output. :rolleyes:

 

 

Now they are...unless somebody is hiding something somewhere the hardest hitters. Physically rattling and pure depth.

 

Need a pad change. Lotta nice can's NEED changes like Lawton mods, pad switches etc

Switch that pad and you got the biggest cannons. 2 months later and folks are getting over whatever personal bias they had.

Very happy not to participate in group think.

 

 

 

Welcome to March 6. 

 

 


 

 

Gonna hear Perfect dido today. Pics if possible. 

post #66 of 9076
Awesome! Can't wait!... And meanwhile, I'm still trying to find info on Numark DH-45 SVT's... My friend has one, but I know him through Skype, and he's no audiophile... So I can't exactly take his word for it... Sad... They look amazing. Very old, maybe 60's.
post #67 of 9076
Thread Starter 

Couldn't hear the Dido

Heard the Fanny Wang 2000.

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE:

 

Um...no.

 

Never heard anyone say why these lack but for bassheads the acoustic/bass switch "on" is the boost. not on and they will distort at 45Hz after about +12dB in that spot. Hates the e12 low boost as well.

Sound is very friendly and fun but it's another "tuned" driver. 

50mm and titanium had me drooling as did the first listen but they crumple. 

Never heard anyone say why?

It's the pre amped driver at the least.


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/19/14 at 6:59am
post #68 of 9076
Thread Starter 

Interlude

 

 

Epic ly excellent discussion about Beats on Head -Fi HERE

 

 

Finally a bunch of folks talking rationale.

 

The value of an item is how much another is willing to pay (High School Lvl Economics)

If it's over priced...truly over priced, it will be corrected by the market (consumer).  Price fluctuations happen all the time for many reasons.

 

If you think you paid too much for your headphones then you need to go look in the mirror because that is who ripped you off. No company,or endorser or ad or anything else. You shoulda been smarter with your money/not listened to folks you have never met.

 Lotta "you"'s in there since it is...all on you.

 

I have never done a starred review on a set of cans I don't own. I have not done  reviews on many cans I did own. Dt 770, Q40, H-fi 580 etc.....I had nothing nice to say and I'm a basshead. 

What's the point?

The Q40 shoulda been reviewed as it was a disaster not too unique. The QC issue is a clear one but I wanted to get along with a bass community <<<VERY BAD

I actually thought..it's not worth it. Even a one way opinionated a**hole like me flexed to avoid some imagined damage. 

The Q40 are too far gone behind me. I coulda done that then. I didn't.

 

I made that mistake to buy cans based on strangers views. 

 

These lists I make are based on exact parameters. They are not rec'd in anyway. If those parameters match your imagined target then do what you will 

Listen with your own ears. Don't hate what you don't know because others do and don't hesitate to go against the grain.

And in the end it's all on you.

post #69 of 9076
Thread Starter 

                                                    JVC HA-SZ2000

 

 

 

 

            

                                                  

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  •  This is not a review it's an argument for calling this set of cans the hardest hitting on the consumer market. That claim needs data. Others need to be able to confirm and compare their cans.  Give me some time.
  • Everything is based on changing the original pads to a firmer pleather

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Making the case 

 

Everything in the robust sub-bass region is related to a "Kelton Subwoofer". 

 

 

Quote:
 

Kelton Theory

  • The output of the active speaker combined with the resonance of the outer enclosure's tuned port causes the passive element to move in sympathy with the changes in audio signal. This effectively creates an outer enclosure of varying size, complimentary to the audio signal, restoring some response to low end of the ported enclosure while taking advantage of the smooth response and tight transients of the sealed active speaker. Overall, the system is tuned, without a crossover, to a range, or band, of frequencies, hence the "bandpass sub-woofer" description.

 

Quote:
 The HA-SZ1000/2000 around ear headphones unveil new “Real Sound System” innovations including the “industry first” Stream Woofer DB (double bass-reflex) combining the Kelton approach with double bass-reflex architecture. This separately dedicated Stream Woofer DB system also allows the incorporation of an ideal-sized mid-high frequency driver mated to a carbon nanotubes diaphragm for mid-high range reproduction free from bass interference. Stream Woofer DB is a dual bass reflex woofer system that features Dual Stream Ducts and two separate chambers for not only richer bass, but also suppression of quality instabilities in mid and high range reproduction. The ingenious design and placement of the dual ducts and dual chambers also allow sufficient space for the large 55mm driver unit while maintaining compactness. The separately dedicated sub-woofer also let JVC engineers optimize the driver for mid to high range reproduction, and exploit the high-frequency characteristics of the carbon nanotubes diaphragm for exceptional audio purity. The result is stylish premium headphones that promise rich bass quality without interference with mid-high audio reproduction, and the enjoyment of delicate high range and solid mid-frequency sound without compromising the bass experience.

 

 

 

Exploded view 

(The second panel from front shows the cover under the pads. It's twisted to 2:30 instead of 6:00 where the bass ports come out

Who the **** does that? This is JVC in a visual. You go all out to make something special and **** 1 little thing up. That's JVC in a nutshell. Every layer is tech awesome and you throw some shallow pads on the top.....tha fuu??)

 

 

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

 

55mm Carbon "Sub-woofer" and 30mm cnt (Carbon nanotube )

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SZ1000 (L)   SZ2000 (R)  <<Uses brass housing for strength and to deter resonating 

 

Quote:
 The Stream Woofer DB is secured in a highly rigid vibration damping cylinder to suppress undesirable vibrations. The premium HA-SZ2000 model adopts a cylinder made of brass, which has enhanced vibration damping performance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

Low Frequency Harmonic Distortion Sound Test

 

Driver check.

Drivers responding clearly at low gain to human hearing thresh hold (18-20Hz)

 

 

 

SUB-BASS

 

(20-60Hz)

 

 

MID-BASS

 

(65-120Hz)

 

 

UPPER-BASS

(125-250Hz)

 

 

 

Mp3Skull Bass test tracks

 

 

 

 

250-2k (Mids)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2k-16k (Highs)

 


Testing

 

  • Testing will be done using music tracks. (Hip Hop). 
  • There will be NO basstronica, Trance,Instrumental/synth-centric tracks. 
  • Sine-sweeps and tone loops are only used to confirm driver response thresh-hold. 
  • The "Cool Story Bro" crew will be put to sleep with video demo's. They are invited to try and replicate demo's with their own cans.

 

 

 

Testing Equipment 

  • Cowon iAudio 10
  • FiiO e12 Mont Blanc
  • JVC-HA-SZ2000 

 

 

 Regular mid-level goods. Total cost $500-600 (Cans+Amp+DAP)

 

 

 

Preview of visual aides

 

 

 Lvl 1 test

(Shows energy being transferred by driver to cage) 

Not common but not rare. Any 50mm+ driver with low,mid,high end bass should be able to do this. Some 40mm possibly as well. 

This test can be gamed and the paper size and material can greatly effect the visual display of energy.

 

 

 

Lvl 2 test

(Shows energy being transferred up through ear padding and air pressure change within area between driver and ear)

This is very un-common.  That paper is  analogues to human skin and the energy being felt by it. It's not a perfect analogue but the point is made fairly well.

The final video will be an unedited one showing exact settings prior to display. As this it will be a Cowon at 34 volume with a flat 5 band eq mach3bass at 10 and BBE at 8. Fiio e12 amo with bass boost on, gain on and volume knob at approx 50% (all will be clearly seen in final video).

 

 

Anyone who has bought a pair of bass cans because they were told their "face will melt", "eyeballs will shake" or any # of wild claims only to get the cans... put them on and be absolutely underwhelmed in the face melting, eye ball shaking dept......will appreciate the effort I put into SHOWING what it does v.s. saying what it does. 

This display is not near distortion levels. I like my cans. I do not need to damage them for entertainment. The work they do under elevated but not insane levels is clear enough/beyond most if not all.

 

 

 


This section is reserved for a video of cans that display equal to or exceeding energy

transfer through the pads. Lower padding held down by opposing cup or object. 3 sides

left unimpeded. Using this track 3:40-4:02 to be exact. Anytime. PM me.

 

 

 


 

Test Tracks

 

 

 

Why this track?

 

Because it is like a Hip Hop producer channeled  Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound".

It is waves of layered bass hits underpinned with a sub-bass stroke that will keep the driver busy at all times. 

This track shines on the sz in a way that puts other heavyweights to shame. It articulates and reproduces all of the mastered track with authority. If you listen and you think.."meh...just another hip hop track" you're not listening loud enough or your cans just won't bloom under the crushing pressures this track puts on the driver diaphragm.

100 million You-tube hits and I'll bet a good portion are pure breed bassheads. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why this track?

 

Because it is the classic bass hit. An atomic blast dressed up like a proper bass hit. It's also nostalgia for me. This hit destroyed/exposed your favorite can.

If you do "A" "B" comparatives between cans while they're together (only way it should be done) then this will make one stand out. The Yamaha 500 and Ultrasone 900 do this hit well because it is good at mid/upper bass showcasing but the sz still takes this slice of cake. What is a safe listening level? Is this too much? This track at high gain will make you ponder such deep questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why this track?

 

Because it is a high gain track. It pulls mids and highs and ties them to the bass smoothly if bass is raised by +15dB. It is new. Well mastered and displays a punchy hit usually reserved for a slightly higher Hz but places it lower. (Maybe aimed at Car Audio heads) One of my newest fav's

 

 

 

 

 

Why this track?

 

Because this is a track that seems to have 2 layers of low end bass response however it has 3 clearly. The 3rd is only heard at very high low end gain. It sounds like a different song on these cans. Without mentioning cans I'll say my 2nd favorite start to echo while these rigid housed drivers keep it together. This is similar to the Wiz track in that you are always being hammered and sometimes with multiple magnificently mastered low end spikes. While the Wiz is pinned with a low tone this is hung with higher hits while low 20-35Hz punch you in between. It's like an inverted Wiz track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Science n' stuff

 

Quote:
 Echo and Reverberation
When a wave reaches the boundary, a portion of the wave undergoes reflection and a portion of the wave undergoes transmission across the boundary. Reflection of sound waves off of surfaces can lead to either an echo or a reverberation.The human brain keeps a sound in memory for up to 0.1 seconds. If a reflected sound wave reaches the ear within 0.1 seconds of the initial sound, then it seems that the sound is prolonged. The reception of multiple reflections within 0.1 seconds of each other causes reverberations. 

Reflection of sound waves also lead to echoes. Echoes are different than reverberations. Echoes occur when a reflected sound wave reaches the ear more than 0.1 seconds after the original sound wave was heard. In this case, the arrival of the second sound wave will be perceived as a second sound rather than the prolonging of the first sound. There will be an echo instead of a reverberation.

 

This is where the 77's end...along with the Pro 900 and ANY other 40mm driver and most 50+ with plastic housing. Just before both the 57mm JVC and the 40mm titanium Ultrasone physically distort they start a resonance/echo chamber acoustic downfall...and then immediately begin distorting

 

<<<Your ear is here.

 Sound waves are longitudinal waves (Red line is your driver)

 

 

 

 

The SZ is using chambers to force high freq sounds out by filtering them naturally since high frequency

waves reflect easier than low frequency waves.Low are longer and wider. They deemed the 55mm driver a "Sub-woofer". It is essentially working in that fashion. Having a driver dedicated and forced to fight through chambers is assuring a powerful low frequency response since the driver is technically only being tasked with that duty. Mastering these headphones to get the two drivers to cooperate is the user end challenge. For Hip-Hop (to this user) these are perfect. They are the ultimate "Basshead" cans though most bassheads have never heard of them. They do not look the part and were not even marketed in that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Miura
 Ordinarily steel components are cold pressed - punched out of steel sheets without applying heat. They are fabricated with brute force, so to speak. At the molecular level, you can see that components are structurally riddled with deformations that have a negative impact on the sound. We decided to apply heat treatment to the steel used in the magnetic circuitry of the HA-SZ2000. Heat treatment at temperatures reaching near 950 degrees Celsius followed by gradual cooling lasting over a day ensures that the molecular structure was relatively free of deformation. With the adoption of heat treatment, my last concern disappeared, and I could state with confidence that our product reproduced premium audio quality. Because efforts like these came so close to the end of development, they did not even make it into the product brochures (laughter).

 

Quote:

 

So these are not headphones for bass enjoyment?

Miura“At the product launch press conference, we were asked that question, and we responded that our aim was crisp clarity across the entire audio range - high fidelity reproduction of not only bass, but also the mid-to-high range. That is why we have achieved a product that reproduces music with a “live” quality and can let you hear even the smallest breath of the performer.”

 

For f__ks sake...Embrace the bass.

 

 

Quote:
 Miura“I have spent over 30 years as a speaker engineer, so for me, the sound that comes out of the speaker is something that I create. I had always wanted to create headphones that could reproduce the same audio quality that comes out of large floor model stereo speakers. Great audio from speakers requires consideration of the room in which they are enjoyed. In addition, it is generally not possible to turn up the volume of speakers in ordinary homes and enjoy their full potential. Headphones, on the other hand, let you listen to any music you like and as loud as you want, anywhere without concern about bothering others. 

 

So they built a Sub-woofer based set to be played loud but it's not for bass enjoyment????

 

 

 

 

O.K., Sure. 

 

 

 

 

That's why folks got 40mm single driver celebrity endorsed basscans on their heads which will crumble and distort long before the ones you guys spent ages to build because you couldn't embrace the bass? How about...mmmm..I dunno....market them just a little to the tween-er crowd that uses moms money or what they saved at McDonald's working part time to buy the baddest ass headphone bass monsters on the planet. Now you got folks rec'ing (insert ****ty can here) because they don't even know what the **** you built. Accidental Einsteins ...awesome:mad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing...I was trying to tell/yell at folks for 2 months was what was the big deal. These really do shake your eyeballs. They vibrate the upper neck as well.

After having these for 3 months it's clear to see,the way a bass can delivers the sensations beyond the pads is related to the human skull. The rear of the pad vibes but your skull...it's thick. The area in front of the pads like your cheeks and the short jump to your orbital area and your meat filled neck......if you tune these right and have solid pads you are going to be very impressed. It is a unique experience

 


 

Analysis

 

 

 

 

 

Above is an SMS DJ PRO which...

Quote:
 Performance
On deep bass tracks, the Audio Street DJ shows off its power. This is definitely a pair for bass lovers and not for purists. At top volumes on tracks with challenging sub-bass content, like the Knife's "Silent Shout," the Street DJ doesn't distort, and it delivers some ferocious rumble

Below is the sz

 

 

 

 

Can shaking hit on Kendrick Lamar's MAad City (above)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Massive bass bomb from Rah

 

SMS

 

 

 

SZ

 

 

 

**This was on a reduced gain because the SMS could not reproduce this hit without distorting/crackling unless I lowered the gain. That lowered gain is the same for the sz snapshot. It's an apples to apples comparison.

 

 

I'll revisit this hit later to see what the sz can do before it's own limit is reached.

 

 

 


Deficiency Notes

 

Denon has an entire industry built around it's cans and the improvement of them. Take a diamond...shine it up...I get it.

 

Many great headphones have deficiencies that are adapted to and overcome by loyal owners who see the profit in further investment. This is great...I wanna make it greater kinda thing.

 

The SZ2000 must have a pad change. End of discussion.

You wanna hear the mids and listen to Jazz? Get some Beyer pads/HM5's

You wanna vibrate your neck? Get a pair of JVC 55XX grab the pads and toss the rest in a river and tell yourself it's an offering to the bass gods and never look back. 

Sometimes you gotta do ****. Suck it up and go the extra step.

 

 


Pre-conclusion conclusions

 

 

 

      

 

  • The Carbon diaphragm is allowing for a stronger low frequency response. It has characteristics that caused JVC to use it for their "sub-woofer". 
  • That brass 
  • Hardened ass end reflecting almost all energy forward via direction (bass tubes) or reflection (metal driver housing)

 

 


DEAR LORD

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup.

Ya missed the entire thread devoted to the cans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I wasn't looking these cans became highly controversial..:rolleyes:

Sub-bass cannons with vids on vids showing it not saying it...and it's contro..........like I said "DEAR LOOOOORD"!!!

 

 


 

 

 

Great write up by a Non Hip hop head

 

***to be continued (The Case for Bass is approx 60% complete as of 7/12/14)


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 9/12/14 at 6:42pm
post #70 of 9076

Damn you HBB. I broke down and ordered two SZ2000s off eBay to serve as my secondary bass headphones. Could not convince myself that any headphone can be all things for all genres of music. Trying to find one type of headphone that is optimal for all purposes is a pipe dream I think.

post #71 of 9076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereolab42 View Post
 

Damn you HBB. I broke down and ordered two SZ2000s off eBay to serve as my secondary bass headphones. Could not convince myself that any headphone can be all things for all genres of music. Trying to find one type of headphone that is optimal for all purposes is a pipe dream I think.

Well, some headphones do general use better than others, but as the saying goes: jack of all trades, master of none. A headphone that is good at everything doesn't usually excel at anything until you start paying lots of money for it. That said, I think there are a few good choices for the general user who isn't looking for audiophile-grade equipment.

post #72 of 9076
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereolab42 View Post
 

Damn you HBB. I broke down and ordered two SZ2000s off eBay to serve as my secondary bass headphones. Could not convince myself that any headphone can be all things for all genres of music. Trying to find one type of headphone that is optimal for all purposes is a pipe dream I think.

 

I'm gonna assume that (based on purchases) your not poor.:D

Get a pair of 55X for 35-40 bucks and use the pads on the xx series.

People switch up Beyer pads and Alpha and HM5 all the time round here on various cans. SZ must get one. These are bass cans first. A firm pleather won't seal great but your face and neck meat will vibe and you'll be in bass bliss so you'll be happy. You gotta (for neck meat vibe) boost the low end to get the full beauty of her low end.

 

If you got any questions don't hesitate to ask. I'm a fanboy but well aware of issues that may come-up but the only real one for a basshead is the pad switch

 


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/19/14 at 7:14pm
post #73 of 9076
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonzeanse View Post
 

Well, some headphones do general use better than others, but as the saying goes: jack of all trades, master of none. A headphone that is good at everything doesn't usually excel at anything until you start paying lots of money for it. That said, I think there are a few good choices for the general user who isn't looking for audiophile-grade equipment.

Agreed.

On all points.

 

I had a easy task which was "what is the hardest deepest hitting headphone?" I asked it again and again and was rec'd Q40, 580's 900's 770's etc etc  (all nice cans with decent depth but not hammers...none of them cept the 900 on high hits)) Found these by fluke at a shop in Hiroshima..... checked and found a Head-fi thread that was dead and pages and pages back. I read the whole hype train turned de-rail and realized......wait ...these got a "sub-woofer".

Everybody come back!!!!! WAIIIIT!!!!!  The shallow pads were epic in poor choice whether you love Jazz or Hip Hop.  What are the hardest hitters?? The search is over.

I'll buy the next set that takes the crown but I haven't heard them (unidentified monster bass cans yet) I haven't even had anyone show the results of a paper vibe test yet.:blink:


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/19/14 at 8:22pm
post #74 of 9076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

 

I'm gonna assume that (based on purchases) your not poor.:D

Get a pair of 55X for 35-40 bucks and use the pads on the xx series.

People switch up Beyer pads and Alpha and HM5 all the time round here on various cans. SZ must get one. These are bass cans first. A firm pleather won't seal great but your face and neck meat will vibe and you'll be in bass bliss so you'll be happy. You gotta (for neck meat vibe) boost the low end to get the full beauty of her low end.

 

Not poor but not rich; I do a lot of research before buying stuff, buy the best (within reason), and then keep it for a long time. The youngest piece of audio equipment in my current setup is from 2006, and my amp is from the late 90s.

 

Hmm, if the 55X pads are the same as those on the 77X I bought and returned that won't work... the seal was atrocious, and I need pads that seal well (to stop leakage, although it remains to be seen if there is such thing as stopping leakage with bass up 35db at 30hz). Any other suggestions for pads? Will Alphas fit? I even wonder if the spares from my 1540s will fit, those are enormous.


Edited by Stereolab42 - 5/19/14 at 8:34pm
post #75 of 9076
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereolab42 View Post
 

 

Not poor but not rich; I do a lot of research before buying stuff, buy the best (within reason), and then keep it for a long time. The youngest piece of audio equipment in my current setup is from 2006, and my amp is from the late 90s.

 

Hmm, if the 55X pads are the same as those on the 77X I bought and returned that won't work... the seal was atrocious, and I need pads that seal well (to stop leakage, although it remains to be seen if there is such thing as stopping leakage with bass up 35db at 30hz). Any other suggestions for pads? Will Alphas fit? I even wonder if the spares from my 1540s will fit, those are enormous.

Image courtesy/stolen from @intlsubband

 

 

Image courtesy of/stolen from @pietcux 

 

Both of these guys have a broader listening range and pad experience.  I think intlsubband went with the HM5's? Bass was not diminished and mids improved.

 

With a raised low end over 20dB down low....you may not be so concerned with leakage (I don't know your conditions) I wear them i the city and walk into Audio shops with lots of ambient noise and it doesn't seem to be an issue but everybody is different.

 

As far as that pad vibe vid and neck vibrations that is all based on a deeper firmer pad than stock.

 

You said you do research ...good.

 

 

 

If you can find anyone who can show you this at 70% of cans ability then ask to see it. Then show me. I love my SZ but I'll buy the harder hitters. I just am not finding them. My ears and eyes are always open though.

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