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post #16 of 2503
Thread Starter 

Dude!!

 

 

Used the channel and everything...good man!!

 

The full paper is basically keeping it held down on one of the 4 sides while the other 3 lay relatively flat and the air/vibration will cause the entire paper to vibrate/elevate without blowing off the pads.

 

But this was cool. Thanks for taking the time!!!

 

Cool beans bru!!!

Very nice!!

post #17 of 2503
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post


Ok, first up - my SZ2000's - followed by my Vibe Black Death cans.

I used strips of paper for testing rather than one large sheet covering ear pad (just couldn't get paper to sit correctly by that method).
 

Both cans tested at same vol (40) and bass EQ (10) using Fiio E17, with iPod touch playing test track via YouTube as source.

Those pads on Black death look unique...is it a fit thing? Do they have more meat where the jawline and earlobe collide? 

Thanks again bro!! Can you put the Death pads on the sz?

 

 

That's a great visual demo of the diff between bass (audible-120Hz)  and sub-bass (60Hz and below)

 

 

If anyone out there got the Yamaha pro 500 I'd love to see this and paper flutter test. If you read this post and know a basshead with the Pro 500 send him this way


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/3/14 at 12:06am
post #18 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

Those pads on Black death look unique...is it a fit thing? Do they have more meat where the jawline and earlobe collide? 

Thanks again bro!! Can you put the Death pads on the sz?

 

 

That's a great visual demo of the diff between bass (audible-120Hz)  and sub-bass (60Hz and below)

 

 

If anyone out there got the Yamaha pro 500 I'd love to see this and paper flutter test. If you read this post and know a basshead with the Pro 500 send him this way

I'm unsure whether the black death pads would be suitable on the SZ's or even worth it as they have small area for ear to fit despite being over ear type, but also there is a lot of padding ie quite thickness of material in the red padding material which I guess adds quite a lot of dampening to the overall sound passing through them, compared to the stock SZ pads.

 

Even from listening to each of the videos I put up, you can clearly hear the SZ's have clearer SQ, and visually see the stronger bass impact on each can using stock pads, but the black deaths are still a very worthy basshead can for what you get for your money, considering the SZ's cost me £245.40 GBP and the Black Death's cost me a mere £59 GBP.  You could argue that you get more bass for your money with the BD's relative to the SZ's, but if you just compare the BD's to the SZ's based on bass slam impact alone, the SZ's are clearly stronger in that department for sure.

 

IMO, the Black Death's are an amazing value for money can, providing you pick them up at the kind of price Amazon UK are currently selling at now, and recommended for any bass fan on a budget to get a hefty slam for their money, but to get a heavier bass slam and overall generally better sound - you gotta spend more green to get with the SZ2000 scene.

 

Is price of can relative to performance a consideration to be applied in the top 10 break down of the bass cans or just based on bass slam alone irrespective of cost?


Edited by cb3723 - 5/3/14 at 6:04am
post #19 of 2503
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post
 

I'm unsure whether the black death pads would be suitable on the SZ's or even worth it as they have small area for ear to fit despite being over ear type, but also there is a lot of padding ie quite thickness of material in the red padding material which I guess adds quite a lot of dampening to the overall sound passing through them, compared to the stock SZ pads.

 

Even from listening to each of the videos I put up, you can clearly hear the SZ's have clearer SQ, and visually see the stronger bass impact on each can using stock pads, but the black deaths are still a very worthy basshead can for what you get for your money, considering the SZ's cost me £245.40 GBP and the Black Death's cost me a mere £59 GBP.  You could argue that you get more bass for your money with the BD's relative to the SZ's, but if you just compare the BD's to the SZ's based on bass slam impact alone, the SZ's are clearly stronger in that department for sure.

 

IMO, the Black Death's are an amazing value for money can, providing you pick them up at the kind of price Amazon UK are currently selling at now, and recommended for any bass fan on a budget to get a hefty slam for their money, but to get a heavier bass slam and overall generally better sound - you gotta spend more green to get with the SZ2000 scene.

 

Is price of can relative to performance a consideration to be applied in the top 10 break down of the bass cans or just based on bass slam alone irrespective of cost?

 

Going into this I hadn't considered it because the price to performance ratio in basshead cans is more aligned with brand=$ than SPL/dB=$....apparently? 

I have spent hours and hours and it's turned into days of listening time with the identical track and even a portion of that track on more cans than I can count and I have only come to a few certain conclusions. I am without doubt on:

 

1.

40mm drivers having a spec limit that prevents them from reaching an overwhelming level of bass.

I can hear a 40mm driver when bass testing and know it before I look and confirm. The Ultrasone Pro 900 (pinnacle of 40mm ....followed closely by the Perfect dido) uses a titanium driver which allows it to achieve a fairly excessive bump but it's an upper bass hit and with too much amp gain the cans begin a kind of bass echo/reflection where the reflective tone sounds like the initial stages of distortion...it is but it's not the driver...not yet. It's the resonating/echo/reflection. A couple more amp tics and it will driver distort but it sounds like it already is when it isn't. The JVC 77 do this exact thing but have 57mm drivers and they go a lot deeper and a little louder and cost $100 bucks. The chamber noise distorting the sound before the driver distorts can be held back longer by a more solid housing like the sz or old XB. 

 

So 40mm = sad soon.  Plastic housing = sad later regardless of driver size. 

 

2.

Extreme bass is going to corrupt the early mids. Whether it is driver tuning or not almost doesn't matter. The throbbing banging visceral sensation on your head and ear is going to interrupt the perception of the early mids even if the driver is accurately producing them which it often is not but it's almost moot because if your being assaulted by hammer hits of bass your ability to accurately interpret the 250/300--1k range  is going to be impeded. Can you have your cake and eat it too? Me thinks not. Not at extreme bass boosting. +10dB? Sure. The Q40 do that (+10 50Hz and a clean entry into early mids) but they wont boost higher and if they did they would lose their signature. They had it but you'd be blowing it up. So thankfully Hip Hop doesn't mind and is mastered/mixed to allow for this. A track by Common or Talib Kweli for example are more like spoken raps with bass akin to a bass guitar and the vocals being forward. Not every song but generally. A typical Hip Hop/Trap beat has vocals mixed higher and the rapper is in a way yelling. That is a different freq response. You can go +20dB and still pick up a rapper who's coming in clearly after 500Hz

 

 

 

So folks who say too much bass is bleeding/eating/overwhelming the mids are basically saying water is wet.

 

 

 

3.

 The # of cans that can make you smile like .....******* wow!! are not as many as folks might imagine. I mean bass cannons. The sz2000, The 77's The Yamaha Pro 500 are the 3 Titans to me. 

The XB700 seemed to have a harder bass than the 1000 but I was so butthurt at wanting 70mm drivers and being mad at the moment I mighta not heard right.

You seem to grab cans like folks buy cheeseburgers. Grab a pair of JVC 77's and have them for the bass and the ability to switch the pads of it in under 2 minutes and raise the bass impact of the sz. It clears the mids but **** that...push up the hit!! A cage is on the ear so it's what?...1/6 of the surface area of the side of the head. A full over ear pad that is covering maybe 3/5ths of the side of your head and delivering heavy vibes through it will make your upper neck vibrate. **** the head your neck will make you swallow repeatedly and **** like in car audio.

 

The paper on the cage test is great and a good first step at visually confirming the hit. The next step is the pads. Much harder to do that. If the pads are shaking the cage is too. My SMS are good at moving paper on the cage but on the pads....it looks like the paper is glued to it? And when I hear the bass it's big but I'm not feeling it....just like the paper isn't

 

I just wrote a buncha **** to say the price doesn't matter. If it slams, can be shown to by a visual that feeds us ADHD riddled loons then it goes on the list.:D 

 

 

EDIT:

Smiley is able to bass boost any genre' :D....so  my comments are related to Hip Hop only. (#2   I mean...#1,#3 stand regardless...IMO) 


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/4/14 at 7:24am
post #20 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

 

Going into this I hadn't considered it because the price to performance ratio in basshead cans is more aligned with brand=$ than SPL/dB=$....apparently? 

I have spent hours and hours and it's turned into days of listening time with the identical track and even a portion of that track on more cans than I can count and I have only come to a few certain conclusions. I am without doubt on:

 

1.

40mm drivers having a spec limit that prevents them from reaching an overwhelming level of bass.

I can hear a 40mm driver when bass testing and know it before I look and confirm. The Ultrasone Pro 900 (pinnacle of 40mm ....followed closely by the Perfect dido) uses a titanium driver which allows it to achieve a fairly excessive bump but it's an upper bass hit and with too much amp gain the cans begin a kind of bass echo/reflection where the reflective tone sounds like the initial stages of distortion...it is but it's not the driver...not yet. It's the resonating/echo/reflection. A couple more amp tics and it will driver distort but it sounds like it already is when it isn't. The JVC 77 do this exact thing but have 57mm drivers and they go a lot deeper and a little louder and cost $100 bucks. The chamber noise distorting the sound before the driver distorts can be held back longer by a more solid housing like the sz or old XB. 

 

So 40mm = sad soon.  Plastic housing = sad later regardless of driver size. 

 

2.

Extreme bass is going to corrupt the early mids. Whether it is driver tuning or not almost doesn't matter. The throbbing banging visceral sensation on your head and ear is going to interrupt the perception of the early mids even if the driver is accurately producing them which it often is not but it's almost moot because if your being assaulted by hammer hits of bass your ability to accurately interpret the 250/300--1k range  is going to be impeded. Can you have your cake and eat it too? Me thinks not. Not at extreme bass boosting. +10dB? Sure. The Q40 do that (+10 50Hz and a clean entry into early mids) but they wont boost higher and if they did they would lose their signature. They had it but you'd be blowing it up. So thankfully Hip Hop doesn't mind and is mastered/mixed to allow for this. A track by Common or Talib Kweli for example are more like spoken raps with bass akin to a bass guitar and the vocals being forward. Not every song but generally. A typical Hip Hop/Trap beat has vocals mixed higher and the rapper is in a way yelling. That is a different freq response. You can go +20dB and still pick up a rapper who's coming in clearly after 500Hz

 

 

 

So folks who say too much bass is bleeding/eating/overwhelming the mids are basically saying water is wet.

 

 

 

3.

 The # of cans that can make you smile like .....******* wow!! are not as many as folks might imagine. I mean bass cannons. The sz2000, The 77's The Yamaha Pro 900 are the 3 Titans to me. 

The XB700 seemed to have a harder bass than the 1000 but I was so butthurt at wanting 70mm drivers and being mad at the moment I mighta not heard right.

You seem to grab cans like folks buy cheeseburgers. Grab a pair of JVC 77's and have them for the bass and the ability to switch the pads of it in under 2 minutes and raise the bass impact of the sz. It clears the mids but **** that...push up the hit!! A cage is on the ear so it's what?...1/6 of the surface area of the side of the head. A full over ear pad that is covering maybe 3/5ths of the side of your head and delivering heavy vibes through it will make your upper neck vibrate. **** the head your neck will make you swallow repeatedly and **** like in car audio.

 

The paper on the cage test is great and a good first step at visually confirming the hit. The next step is the pads. Much harder to do that. If the pads are shaking the cage is too. My SMS are good at moving paper on the cage but on the pads....it looks like the paper is glued to it? And when I hear the bass it's big but I'm not feeling it....just like the paper isn't

 

I just wrote a buncha **** to say the price doesn't matter. If it slams, can be shown to by a visual that feeds us ADHD riddled loons then it goes on the list.:D 

 

 

EDIT:

Smiley is able to bass boost any genre' :D....so  my comments are related to Hip Hop only. (#2   I mean...#1,#3 stand regardless...IMO) 

 

That's a whole lotta basscientific research U shared there bro!


Thanks for sharing your endeavours :cool:

 

Thing with cheeseburgers is Maccy D's type don't fill U up and often leaving you wanting more with nothing to show but an expanding waistline, so when it comes to it, I'd rather put green down on cans over cheeseburgers every day, as for one, you got something to show for your monies, two, you get a lifetime of returning flavour and three, the only fat included is the phat from your cans & level of EQ you choose to abuse :D 

 

Do the SZ pads remove easily - ie are they meant to be removable?

 

What's your opinion on the SONY MDR-XB1000's and their super size Xtra cheese meal deal 70mm drivers?


And, how do you compare the ULTRASONE Pro 900's to the Signature Pro's, the latter part of my can collection?
pro900.jpg

p.s If there's any room in the current top 10 bass cans under consideration - I think the Black Death's deserve to be added.....biggrin.gifwink.gif

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Edited by cb3723 - 5/3/14 at 5:22pm
post #21 of 2503


Edited by cb3723 - 5/3/14 at 1:20pm
post #22 of 2503
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Edited by cb3723 - 5/3/14 at 4:52pm
post #23 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post

 

Do the SZ pads remove easily - ie are they meant to be removable?

The pads come of quite easy by pulling them of sideways. It is about seconds to take them off. And it takes a minute only to put them back on. The diameter is 100 mm. Most Beyerdynamic pads and a lot other should fit.

post #24 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietcux View Post
 

The pads come of quite easy by pulling them of sideways. It is about seconds to take them off. And it takes a minute only to put them back on. The diameter is 100 mm. Most Beyerdynamic pads and a lot other should fit.

Ahh, nice one - that's very useful information - thanks! :)

post #25 of 2503

Edited by cb3723 - 5/3/14 at 4:55pm
post #26 of 2503
Thread Starter 

 

The pad switch is epic...in it's ease. 

 

 

 

 

I owned the Sig Pro by mistake confusing it with the Sig Dj

Quote:
 The bass-oriented tone quality of the extremely powerful transducer reproduces entirely distortion-free music – even at high volume. Such bass precision and absence of distortion are a result of patented S-Logic PLUS technology. The Signature DJ headphones come equipped with patented MU metal shielding as a matter of course, which in turn reduces electromagnetic radiation by up to 98% – a must for every health and safety conscious professional.

 

I lost big money and got a store credit which led me directly to the sz2000 which don't look like bass cannons and don't look like Hi-Fi units...it was a total surprise to me (the sz) and it was me trying to spend a store credit. I was very very very butt hurt up until I heard the sz

 

I think the rank goes 

 

Sig Dj>Pro 900> Sig pro  Bass depth

Pro900& Sig dj> Sig Pro Bass impact  50mm driver in sig dj is mylar but it goes lower. The power of the hit is close though the Pro 900 seems to reign supreme at high bass bump. The sig dj digs deeper on Hip Hop

 

 

Black Death. If you say they are top 10ers I got no reason to doubt it. If 10 other cans come and it gets dropped it gets dropped but that goes for any can.

 

I'm gonna head to a BBQ now. I'll be back to give my opinion on the XB which is worth less than yours since you own both but I'll give a thought on the legends.


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/4/14 at 7:56am
post #27 of 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

 

The pad switch is epic...in it's ease. 

 

 

 

 

I owned the Sig Pro by mistake confusing it with the Sig Dj

 

I lost big money and got a store credit which led me directly to the sz2000 which don't look like bass cannons and don't look like Hi-Fi units...it was a total surprise to me (the sz) and it was me trying to spend a store credit. I was very very very butt hurt up until I heard the sz

 

I think the rank goes 

 

Sig Dj>Pro 900> Sig pro  Bass depth

Pro900& Sig pro> Sig Pro Bass impact  50mm driver in sig dj is mylar but it goes lower. The power of the hit is close though the Pro 900 seems to reign supreme at high bass bump. The sig dj digs deeper on Hip Hop

 

 

Black Death. If you say they are top 10ers I got no reason to doubt it. If 10 other cans come and it gets dropped it gets dropped but that goes for any can.

 

I'm gonna head to a BBQ now. I'll be back to give my opinion on the XB which is worth less than yours since you own both but I'll give a thought on the legends.

Cool pad change tutorial video - I'm glad that JVC compensate using cruddy pads on the SZ's by making them removable :cool:

 

Are the XB1000's available in stores in Japan?

 

I'll spend some more comparative listening time soon between the SZ's (after I do a pad change) and the XB1000's and post my personal thoughts on these two bass bombers.

 

Careful you don't drop your SZ's on the barbie if you get called up to the grill - chargrilled cheeseburger canons will be a tough order to swallow :wink_face: 


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Edited by cb3723 - 5/4/14 at 12:09am
post #28 of 2503
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb3723 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

 

The pad switch is epic...in it's ease. 

 

 

 

 

I owned the Sig Pro by mistake confusing it with the Sig Dj

 

I lost big money and got a store credit which led me directly to the sz2000 which don't look like bass cannons and don't look like Hi-Fi units...it was a total surprise to me (the sz) and it was me trying to spend a store credit. I was very very very butt hurt up until I heard the sz

 

I think the rank goes 

 

Sig Dj>Pro 900> Sig pro  Bass depth

Pro900& Sig pro> Sig Pro Bass impact  50mm driver in sig dj is mylar but it goes lower. The power of the hit is close though the Pro 900 seems to reign supreme at high bass bump. The sig dj digs deeper on Hip Hop

 

 

Black Death. If you say they are top 10ers I got no reason to doubt it. If 10 other cans come and it gets dropped it gets dropped but that goes for any can.

 

I'm gonna head to a BBQ now. I'll be back to give my opinion on the XB which is worth less than yours since you own both but I'll give a thought on the legends.

Cool pad change tutorial video - I'm glad that JVC compensate using cruddy pads on the SZ's by making them removable :cool:

 

Are the XB1000's available in stores in Japan?

 

I'll spend some more comparative listening time soon between the SZ's (after I do a pad change) and the XB1000's and post my personal thoughts on these two bass bombers.

 

Careful you don't drop your SZ's on the barbie if you get called up to the grill - chargrilled cheeseburger canons will be a tough order to swallow :wink_face: 

 
 

 

Not in the Big Box chain stores but in the smaller boutique shops.

 

Expectations......are like poison.

 

I thought 70mm drivers.....+20mm over 50mm WOOOO HOOOOO!!

I wanted those like a a dude that works at McDonalds wants a raise!! 

Nobody in here gonna argue with me. I got Physics/Science/Acoustics on my side.

Make no mistake...this is a giant pissing contest and I wanna win....whatever the prize....a cookie?

Give it to me!!!!

 

 

 

The XB suffered from my overblown expectations and hanging next to some of these

 

 

The 77x were meeting and beating the 1000 and for 1/4 the cost.

 

 

I could not wrap my head around something -13mm hitting harder but there it was. Angled,ported ...slamming my head.

The XB 1000 were louder but not giving me the impact on my head that I crave. 

The 55x had caused me to ditch the Beats while I was in the shop...I basically handed them to chick and said "here you go"

 

 

She's watching Breaking Bad on Hulu with these right now and is quite pleased. I was not pleased to have a pair of Battlestar Gallactica headgear rejects on my head but it's all about the bass so **** it. I'm not wearing too easy to distort Beats. I had the Pro too but I always thought the bass hit was sharper on the original Studio anyway. The Pro's "Boomed" more but the Studio's kicked harder.

And now the plastic 55x are showing me that price means.....:blink:...nothing??

 

I eventually blew the 55's went and got the 77 but tried the XB1000 for the 2nd time and again it just....the pads are too soft? The size the volume all there but my head was not getting kicked.

 

FFWD...

 

I buy the wrong Ultrasone for a lot of cash and end up with a credit. Go to the shop and there was the sz just hanging there. It looked...meh.

Nothing screamed BASSHEAD but I was jacking it in and bang........I mean bang!!

 

 

Nobody at anytime mentioned them to me on a list of bass cans.

Not one person.

Zero.  

I PM a guy and he tells me they are quote: MONSTERS BASS MONSTERS

 

 

 

 

 

Um......I've been asking about those kinda cans? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

I will get the XB1000 because they are well made and have 70mm drivers. Sony's quality has fallen off the cliff. I want those. I'll get em and make em' slam. I suppose halving the pad depth with a firmer pad will turn the boom into an earthquake on my head. I have an idea on how to do it too.

 

You should get the 77x the HA-MR77X NOT the HAMR77X....that little dash is a different can. Just for the collection of yours and because it's 100 bucks and it is a cannon. 

 

That paper in cup test is kinda an example of it's weakness (the test). The sz go +15dB and deeper but that test looks like the 77's pwn because the fabric is taut...you can see the fabric vibrating if you full screen. The pad test is NOT on par with the sz though so I tend to rely more on the pad test as confirmation of what the paper in cup test indicates. Dancing papers on a cage is tough but having a set of pads vibrate paper off them and go crazy is a lot harder. 

 

 When the candidates are agreed on then each post done on them in a review form will be THE post for that can and future notes/thoughts/pics/vids will go in that post. The posts links will be in the OP and in my sig. Also bumped on this thread. This will take time. I'm in no rush

 

 

 


Also...finalized my portable bass rig/test kit.

 

1st Gen

(double hooks behind rig. Felt heavy and off balance)

 

2nd Gen

(Double hooks on side. More balance but strap material uncomfortable)

 

3rd Gen

(double hooks, cotton strap, wider and more comfort...ghetto as **** though)

 

4th Gen (final)

 

(Balanced via bottom support, ultra comfortable neck strap with open cavity to hold drinks for runners or for me cooling gel in summer or padding) 

 

I see no way to test bass hits on cans and compare without doing this. I wanna test and buy not buy and test so I need this rig. I hear folks say "Just off memory..." or "I don't own them anymore but____"   yeah....sure. Even my opinion of the XB are perilously close to B.S. because it's off memory. I used this but not today so I defer to you with regards to the XB. You own it. You know it. It's a legendary series.

 

I really couldn't live without this rig. 


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/4/14 at 9:02am
post #29 of 2503
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

Beginning trials with the eq:L3000:

post #30 of 2503
Thread Starter 

 Current Top 10 Candidates (5/10/14) **not in order yet**

1 JVC HA SZ2000 (Being tested)

2 Yamaha Pro 500

3 Ultrasone - Edition 8 "Ruthenheim" (triple bass port)

4 Ultrasone Pro 900

5 Sony XB700

6 Sony XB1000

7 Denon AHD400

8

9 JVC HA-MR77X (Being tested)

10 Viper - Black Death


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 5/9/14 at 8:49pm
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