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[Review] Oppo PM-1, Oppo hit the nail on the head - Page 10

post #136 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Yes your last sentence sums the problem perfectly.
I wouldn't call such people self entitled though, we just want to know what's happening behind closed doors, specially if such headphone is highly anticipated.
Now we know it was because Oppo did not know any better (after all it is their first headphone) but by being so quiet they alienated a lot of us.
I personally understand both sides...

 

post #137 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
 

^I would pretty much agree, and also add, that I don't think anyone is saying or trying to say that the PM-1 is perfect. There is no such thing.
However the majority of negativity seems to come from label bashing at times, and from negative comments against the PM-1 from people who
a) haven't even heard them, and b) haven't done any of their own measurements.
Anyone who hears the HPs and has their own real criticism, that's all good with me, but the "trolling" just gets annoying after a while.

 

The first few impressions basically had no negatives...  After the initial batch (1-3 people), impressions started dropping in that did state that there was a treble roll off...  Before that, they ignored it and the graphs.  After the impressions came in confirming the roll off in bass (the measurements weren't off from 2-3 sources at this point) those people began stating that music didn't contain those frequencies so there was no need to replicate them. 

 

The same thing happened in the Heir Audio thread after the negative aspects of the 4.Ai came out. 

 

_____

 

Note, I'm not saying the PM-1 won't have treble, nor am I saying that it's a bad headphone.  Neither of those statements are true confirmed by about a dozen members. 

post #138 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
 

^I would pretty much agree, and also add, that I don't think anyone is saying or trying to say that the PM-1 is perfect. There is no such thing.
However the majority of negativity seems to come from label bashing at times, and from negative comments against the PM-1 from people who
a) haven't even heard them, and b) haven't done any of their own measurements.
Anyone who hears the HPs and has their own real criticism, that's all good with me, but the "trolling" just gets annoying after a while.

 

The first few impressions basically had no negatives...  After the initial batch (1-3 people), impressions started dropping in that did state that there was a treble roll off...  Before that, they ignored it and the graphs.  After the impressions came in confirming the roll off in bass (the measurements weren't off from 2-3 sources at this point) those people began stating that music didn't contain those frequencies so there was no need to replicate them. 

 

The same thing happened in the Heir Audio thread after the negative aspects of the 4.Ai came out. 

 

_____

 

Note, I'm not saying the PM-1 won't have treble, nor am I saying that it's a bad headphone.  Neither of those statements are true confirmed by about a dozen members. 

Well you are not wrong about the points you've chosen to highlight, but there were hundreds of other comments between those.
Impressions from users and reviewers are what they are. If someone listens to the headphones and does or doesn't like what they hear,
then you can't argue that.
You can argue tech specs and charts if you want to, but test charts don't always equal what human ears can hear.
All any given person can do is try them for themselves and go from there. Oppo's 30 day return policy makes that easy.
I'm very curious to hear what some of the other more prominent "headphone reviewers" have to say about them once the reviews come out soon.
 

post #139 of 166
I'm surprise no one ever discusses the changes to frequency response with amplitude level, with planars it does change.

Edited by HiFiAudio - 5/8/14 at 8:15pm
post #140 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiAudio View Post

I'm surprise no one ever discusses the changes to frequency response with amplitude level, with planars it does change.

 

I think that deals more with the power requirement for them.  At the same time...  Unless you can find a system where as the amps increase, the output sound doesn't, there really is no real way to test that.  EG, comparing different amps (A produces X watts, B produces Y) wouldn't justify it, you'd have to show that A produces the same signal as B's (it's a factor higher at all frequencies when compared to B's) while their voltage is different.  Additionally, the output impedance would also have to be the same (another thing to deal with) as well as everything else (except the voltage output).  Finding these two amps is very difficult, that's like finding two headphone with the same exact specs, but aren't related to one another (don't share anything in common). 

 

If you can't find these two mythical amps, then you end up with the amp causing some coloration to the sound (in contrast to one another) which can easily be the changes in frequency response you are getting.  Something that may loosely be related to changes as power increases is the impedance graph of the headphones.  The higher a frequency is on an impedance graph implies that it takes more power to produce that frequency in contrast to the others (if I'm not mistaken). 

 

So if you plug something into a different amplifier, yes, it'll sound different (did you expect them to be the same?)...  Oh wait, someone in the other Oppo thread said this isn't true... 

 

Note: I used the difference in voltage output, but under ohms law, that would also mean that the amp output would differ as well (if power remains constant).  I didn't want to use the word amp because we're talking about amps. 

 

_____

 

This really does belong in the sound science forum, they'll have a much better idea of what the impedance chart truly means from every single possible angle :p 

post #141 of 166

What's been done is questionable. If a firm gives out an $1100 product for free, I have a hard time believing the hype. There are the equivocal statements coming from the rep. The concerns about the treble roll off are valid too. You guys don't see problems? Now, that's troubling.

post #142 of 166

Giving Beta Testers a free PM-1 headphone to thank them for their hard work and service does not seem that unreasonable. Without their aid, the end PM-1, and by extension the HA-1, would not be the products they are today. They provided their services free of charge, so it only seems reasonable that we give back to the people who had a direct hand in shaping the final products.

 

I will let someone else discuss your other points because anything that I mention will have presumed bias attached to them.

post #143 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

What's been done is questionable. If a firm gives out an $1100 product for free, I have a hard time believing the hype. There are the equivocal statements coming from the rep. The concerns about the treble roll off are valid too. You guys don't see problems? Now, that's troubling.

I'll think nice thoughts your direction as I listen to hi resolution audio content using my PM-1's.  All the beta testers put in a lot of time contributing, but that doesn't get mentioned does it?

Cheers! :beerchug: 

post #144 of 166

I would hate to see Head-fi lose relevancy as the market for our hobby grows.

Oppo did nothing wrong, violated no ethics or terms that I am aware of, and may actually have begun to expand the demographic of TOTL headphones.  I see quite a few 'speaker' folk venturing into these forums.

 

 And they pretty much get pounced on by a very vocal minority.  I say 'Welcome!'

post #145 of 166
Thread Starter 

Well this thread is way off the rails. 

post #146 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by keanex View Post
 

Well this thread is way off the rails. 

Sorry for my part in that.  I figured this was the one place I could express my sentiment without totally derailing things....

Thanks for all your work, BTW.

post #147 of 166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 

Sorry for my part in that.  I figured this was the one place I could express my sentiment without totally derailing things....

Thanks for all your work, BTW.

 

Not you at all, and thanks!

post #148 of 166


Seriously considering buying these - but are they going to be a bit less detailed than (say) some Stax headphones?

post #149 of 166
Thread Starter 

I must say that I've always been a loud listener, the PM-1 are the first headphones that I am 100% satisfied at low volumes. 

post #150 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickLondon View Post
 


Seriously considering buying these - but are they going to be a bit less detailed than (say) some Stax headphones?


don't bet on it..............

If they roll off on treble and give a boost on bass, it is not going to be as detailed for sure.

However, if you compare them to the very very old STAX, I think they should have a good fight.

Since I own either, you have to go to the STAX form and ask the question.

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › [Review] Oppo PM-1, Oppo hit the nail on the head