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[Review] Oppo PM-1, Oppo hit the nail on the head - Page 9

post #121 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGFX View Post

Oppo should stick to digital IMHO. Anyone can design an amp circuit, but it takes an expert to design a spectacular transducer.

 

post #122 of 166
More listener reviews and less moral pissing contests would be welcomed.
post #123 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGFX View Post

Oppo should stick to digital IMHO. Anyone can design an amp circuit, but it takes an expert to design a spectacular transducer.

 

Let's say OPPO hired the guy who originally designed the driver in the Fostex or Yamaha Orthos? Or, for that matter, if they hired the guy from, say, Audeze to moonlight designing a custom driver for them? They would have an "expert" then, so it would now be OK? Would it be OK if they started a new company called Kraveman Acoustics devoted to headphones only?

 

I don't know whether they have an expert or not. Maybe the guy who designs their digital products real field of expertise was transducers! But if they don't have a capable designer, it will be a self-regulating situation as the Phones will not be a success and they will soon no longer be making headphones.

 

And, btw, not just "anyone" can design an amp circuit. Just ask Nelson Pass or John Curl or...

post #124 of 166

They did have someone assisting them, look that up.

post #125 of 166
Quote:

Originally Posted by k3oxkjo View Post

 

I don't know whether they have an expert or not. Maybe the guy who designs their digital products real field of expertise was transducers! But if they don't have a capable designer, it will be a self-regulating situation as the Phones will not be a success and they will soon no longer be making headphones.

This has already been mentioned in multiple reviews, by the way Oppo Digital has nothing to do with making phones that bear the Oppo logo, that a another subsidiary of their huge parent company (BBK).  

 

Quote:
we also got to meet the designer of the PM-1, who turned out to be none other than the planar magnetic driver guru Igor Levitsky (the man who is the guiding technical force behind the well-regarded planar magnetic driver-equipped loudspeakers from the US-based firm BG Radia).

 

Now can we get back to subject matter that is on topic? :smile:

 


Edited by HiFiAudio - 5/5/14 at 12:48am
post #126 of 166

Maybe we need another thread, "How did Oppo insult the Head-fi Community be releasing a TOTL Headphone on their very first attempt, without consulting Head-Fi gurus on how to do it."

 

We seem to need to discuss this somewhere, and from what I've read, it permeates all of the Oppo threads.

 

Personally, I am detecting a hurt sense of entitlement from some of the people on this forum.  Oppo broke all the rules, and there is one thing I am certain of:  a special 'Head-Fi' edition of this headphone is very unlikely.  I think this is GREAT for our community, and Oppo just might reach home theater enthusiasts who are reluctant to engage in personal audio.

post #127 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post
 

They did have someone assisting them, look that up.

That's nice. But the point of my posting was that it was silly to say that OPPO shouldn't make a headphone. If it's good (however they get there) it will succeed and if it isn't, it will fail. No harm, no foul.

post #128 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiAudio View Post
 

This has already been mentioned in multiple reviews, by the way Oppo Digital has nothing to do with making phones that bear the Oppo logo, that a another subsidiary of their huge parent company (BBK).

 

 

Now can we get back to subject matter that is on topic? :smile:

 

Hmm... the "subject matter on topic"...

 

Thread: Oppo PM-1, Oppo hit the nail on the head

 

Leading, but grabs the eye...

 

Post 1:

 

A nice review of the OPPO by a contributor who was a Beta tester who tells us: "Before anyone asks, I do not have experience with other high-end offerings. My stance is coming from an avid headphone enthusiast who was lucky enough to get to work with Oppo on these headphones." No aspersions here, it's good to have his impressions.

 

Post 2 through 4

 

The first of many obligatory posts about the phones pricing. But still showing interest in how these compare to the Audeze, etc.

 

Post 5

 

Someone didn't like the measurements

 

Post 6

 

The manufacturers rep let's us know there will be a less expensive version at some point

 

The rest...

 

Various speculation, accusations, recriminations, comparisons based on short term listening at meets and general kvetching.

 

It seems we are pretty much still on topic :D

post #129 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by swspiers View Post
 

Maybe we need another thread, "How did Oppo insult the Head-fi Community be releasing a TOTL Headphone on their very first attempt, without consulting Head-Fi gurus on how to do it."

 

We seem to need to discuss this somewhere, and from what I've read, it permeates all of the Oppo threads.

 

Personally, I am detecting a hurt sense of entitlement from some of the people on this forum.  Oppo broke all the rules, and there is one thing I am certain of:  a special 'Head-Fi' edition of this headphone is very unlikely.  I think this is GREAT for our community, and Oppo just might reach home theater enthusiasts who are reluctant to engage in personal audio.

 

Couldn't agree more...

 

HFM/Audeze have some noted build/quality issues, yet are highly praised.  HFM's new HE560 has already gone through a couple 'fixes' (baffle and now ear pads), yet again, they are praised as being the greatest thing in the world and quickly answering to customer issues.

 

Oppo comes along, and seems to have released a great headphone.  First time.  And seemingly no customer issues to address.  Yet are bashed in every single thread I've seen them mentioned.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me... HFM has clearly had some issues and people say they are a customer for life now because of the way they handled it.  Oppo has none of these issues, and people are looking to trash them.  I don't get it...

 

Don't get me wrong...I do like HFM and own a pair of HE-500's myself and cannot wait to get a new pair of their ear pads to try out.  But this unwarranted mob-mentality Oppo bashing really needs to stop.

 

If the headphones fall apart in a month, then it is deserved.  But all I can see so far is that they were silent up until just before release and apparently that annoyed people that felt entitled.

post #130 of 166
Yes your last sentence sums the problem perfectly.
I wouldn't call such people self entitled though, we just want to know what's happening behind closed doors, specially if such headphone is highly anticipated.
Now we know it was because Oppo did not know any better (after all it is their first headphone) but by being so quiet they alienated a lot of us.
I personally understand both sides...
post #131 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Yes your last sentence sums the problem perfectly.
I wouldn't call such people self entitled though, we just want to know what's happening behind closed doors, specially if such headphone is highly anticipated.
Now we know it was because Oppo did not know any better (after all it is their first headphone) but by being so quiet they alienated a lot of us.
I personally understand both sides...

Schiit does the same thing with their products and nobody says anything.  They go one step further and not even mention new products that are coming (aside from their new Statement products).

 

So would people have been less offended if Oppo simply didn't make an announcement at all until they were released?

post #132 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post

Schiit does the same thing with their products and nobody says anything.  They go one step further and not even mention new products that are coming (aside from their new Statement products).

So would people have been less offended if Oppo simply didn't make an announcement at all until they were released?

Yes I actually think so. It was the period of silence between the announcement and the release I think.
post #133 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post
 

 

Couldn't agree more...

 

HFM/Audeze have some noted build/quality issues, yet are highly praised.  HFM's new HE560 has already gone through a couple 'fixes' (baffle and now ear pads), yet again, they are praised as being the greatest thing in the world and quickly answering to customer issues.

 

Oppo comes along, and seems to have released a great headphone.  First time.  And seemingly no customer issues to address.  Yet are bashed in every single thread I've seen them mentioned.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me... HFM has clearly had some issues and people say they are a customer for life now because of the way they handled it.  Oppo has none of these issues, and people are looking to trash them.  I don't get it...

 

Don't get me wrong...I do like HFM and own a pair of HE-500's myself and cannot wait to get a new pair of their ear pads to try out.  But this unwarranted mob-mentality Oppo bashing really needs to stop.

 

If the headphones fall apart in a month, then it is deserved.  But all I can see so far is that they were silent up until just before release and apparently that annoyed people that felt entitled.

 

No one is blaming Oppo (OK, well I'm not)...  The thing is, a lot of these reviewers they chose aren't deep into headphones and some have very little rep on Head-Fi while others have very little understanding of how headphones/sound works.  Then there are the members that are known on Head-Fi that go these (a month or two ago), created a huge thread for it, but haven't made a single peep.  The original impressions of these go against the current set of impressions of the headphones as well...  So there is also the fact that we don't truly know what the headphones sound like yet (but measurements agree with the latter impressions and not the earlier ones). 

 

Most of the time, we aren't attacking Oppo though, rather, all the commotion is attacking an ideology.  The fact that headphone measurement is inaccurate.  The fact that a better amp makes no improvement on sound on anything.  The fact that albums don't generate sound above 20 kHz.  The fact that anything over 10 kHz isn't going to change how music sounds...  Each of those has been debated heavily on Oppo threads...  I can see a debate starting about headphone measurement.  I can't see one on amps popping up (but it did).  I can't see one popping up about albums not getting up to 20 kHz (but it did).  I can see the 10 kHz argument popping up.  The thing is, all of the arguments (except for the amp one) were brought up to cover up an issue the PM-1 had (in impressions and measurements) trying to create the idea that it didn't matter that the Oppo didn't extend above 12 kHz. 

 

Now, some reviewers have gotten attacked for not having experience in high-end audio.  Other reviewers have gotten attacked for not having other expensive headphones on hand.  I actually don't blame Oppo for what happened, because it happens all the time with something that is hyped after initial impressions go out. 

 

But the main heat getting eaten up right now, isn't the fault of Oppo, it's the fault of some of the reviewers.  The heat is about an apparent weakness in the PM-1, the lack of extension.  We have people saying it's a real thing.  Then other saying, it doesn't matter.  And that's where all the drama spurs up.  People then eventually hit on the beta testers, then someone though it'd be a good idea to hit on the person who chose the beta testers... 

 

______

 

Now you make some comparisons to the HiFiMan thread...  The difference here is that the measurements have yet to pop out, but even then, there is a general consensus about how they sound.  They're in agreement about both the strengths and the weaknesses (they can be unforgiving at times).  There is nothing to argue about.  The majority of reviewers have been around long enough to know there is no perfect headphone and will accept weaknesses. 

 

______

 

I feel that the reason for all the drama is the failure to accept that the PM-1 does have a weakness somewhere when the majority of the beta testers wanted it to be the perfect headphone.  The same thing would happen in the HiFiMan thread if people came back and argued that the build of the HiFiMan was perfect and kept hold no matter how many people told him it simply wasn't given a wealth of information why while those people just kept on saying no, it's perfect.  You'd have the same type of thread that the Oppo thread(s) have had. 


Edited by tinyman392 - 5/8/14 at 3:35pm
post #134 of 166

^ That's a good summary of lot of whats been happening.


Edited by HiFiAudio - 5/8/14 at 4:48pm
post #135 of 166

^I would pretty much agree, and also add, that I don't think anyone is saying or trying to say that the PM-1 is perfect. There is no such thing.
However the majority of negativity seems to come from label bashing at times, and from negative comments against the PM-1 from people who
a) haven't even heard them, and b) haven't done any of their own measurements.
Anyone who hears the HPs and has their own real criticism, that's all good with me, but the "trolling" just gets annoying after a while.


Edited by Smarty-pants - 5/8/14 at 5:19pm
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