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In favor of double ES9018M2K or single ES9018? - Page 3

Poll Results: In favor of double ES9018M2K or single ES9018?

 
  • 39% (31)
    A. Mobile type of 9018M2K X 2
  • 60% (48)
    B. Desk type of 9018 X1
79 Total Votes  
post #31 of 70

Might as well go with a full sized ESS9018, and add a slightly bigger battery to compensate for the power draw.

post #32 of 70

You need to be careful of specs. If you use the extra processing power of the big standard DAC, it's actual in service current draw could be much higher than a pair of the smaller ones. Hard to know which way to go without packaging and hearing 2 prototypes.

post #33 of 70
We definitively need a prototype to see how portable this new dap is going to be. There is always compromises to make and when the player becomes stationary then the interest quickly drops.
post #34 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

Thus, I believe the choice between the ES9018S and (2×) ES9018K2M should be a design and layout issue, rather than a feature-related issue. I think the bigger question is whether it's easier to rid of DC offset with decoupling capacitors in the 9018S or 9018K2M --- will the decoupling path be short enough? Will the smaller form factor of the 9018K2M allow for more advantageous placement of clocks? Will the lower operating voltage of the K2M result in a greater or lesser ability to reject power noise from the AVcc? These are the questions that I'm sure FiiO engineers are looking to answer for themselves when testing different design paradigms, and I believe they should be free to make those decisions free from market pressure.

+1 :beerchug:

post #35 of 70

Can people here enlighten me on discrete system and opamps?  What is the difference?  Why is discrete favored for hifi?  I'm guessing discrete means it's not inside an IC, and from what I've read, it would provide less noise?  Not sure about that since somebody commented that it's a misconception that discrete is better.

 

Sub'd I love geeky threads like this.  :D


Edited by SilverEars - 4/29/14 at 6:40pm
post #36 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Can people here enlighten me on discrete system and opamps?  What is the difference?  Why is discrete favored for hifi?  I'm guessing discrete means it's not inside an IC, and from what I've read, it would provide less noise?  Not sure about that since somebody commented that it's a misconception that discrete is better.

 

Sub'd I love geeky threads like this.  :D

 

Depend who you are talking to, I don't think full discrete design is inherently better. But here is a catch - opamp is made out of discrete parts as well, but integrated into a tiny chip. A full discrete circuit (in an amp) is just trying to duplicate the same function of an opamp by using individual parts. Every electronics component has noise, the difference is in the amount. Can you design a full discrete circuit of exceptionally low noise? Yes. Can you find an opamp of exceptionally low noise? Yes as well. The difference is, unlike the highly controlled environment of a wafer factory that allows mass production of high precision silicon electronics at a relatively low cost per chip, trying to design a full discrete circuit of the same performance with very well matched parts cost a hell lot more per circuit, and the use of individual part means more things can go wrong that might result in a sub-performing circuit. So in the end, it is all down to implementation as well as attention to detail. With opamp, most of the heavy lifting has already been taken care by the opamp manufacturer, and it is easier and more cost effective to get relatively good result in low cost.

 

So, can discrete be better? Yes. Is discrete always better? No. So why does discrete often favored by high end audio industry? Well, first, to be high end is to offer a product that is not just high in performance but also offers different-than-common solution. So going discrete not only allows the manufacturer to tailor the product to achieve a specific performance, it also makes for a good marketing pitch. If you spend the money for a Ferrari, you don't want it just being fast - you will want your Ferrari not to use the tail light or steering column from a Fiat 500.


Edited by ClieOS - 4/29/14 at 8:37pm
post #37 of 70
As for the form factor I disagree with some who rank size over sound. With a portfolio of X1, X3 and X5 already I would expect the X7 to be solely engineered and marketed as a soundbeast. I personally don't care a bit if it will be bigger than the other three, as long as it has a reasonable size of let's say a Galaxy Note 3 max. three times as thick to give an example. But I would definitely not be interested, if a X7 could not raise the bar above an iBasso Dx 100 or 90, AK xyz etc soundwise. The amp section and power supply might be more decisive than the DAC in the end. To be sufficient in those categories space is needed...

To cut it short: my vote goes for something in between an E12 to iBasso PB2 with an implemented 9018 DAC removable 4xxx battery and physical buttons. Nice to have would be a screen able to show cover art in a 600 X 600 resolution upwards ...
Edited by zikarus - 4/30/14 at 9:45am
post #38 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Can people here enlighten me on discrete system and opamps?  What is the difference?  Why is discrete favored for hifi?  I'm guessing discrete means it's not inside an IC, and from what I've read, it would provide less noise?  Not sure about that since somebody commented that it's a misconception that discrete is better.

 

Sub'd I love geeky threads like this.  :D

In a discrete circuit you can chose bits for their characteristics and not be locked into a single substrate of capacitors, resistors etc. They are also less current limited and can be more purpose built. How much you value these aspects is an individual consideration.

post #39 of 70

Put in a 8000 mah battery

post #40 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

Put in a 8000 mah battery

 

 

Here you are:

 

 

 

Now can we please get back to discussing a PORTABLE DAP?

post #41 of 70

It's portable for him:

 

post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

 

Here you are:

 

 

 

Now can we please get back to discussing a PORTABLE DAP?

 

why would an 8000 mah battery have to be that big?

post #43 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 

 

why would an 8000 mah battery have to be that big?

 

8000mah is an example of a capacity for an external battery pack, if FiiO was to but a battery the size of an external battery pack into the X7, the resulting DAP would be too large for practical portable use.

post #44 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post
 

 

8000mah is an example of a capacity for an external battery pack, if FiiO was to but a battery the size of an external battery pack into the X7, the resulting DAP would be too large for practical portable use.


You don't know what you're talking about. An 8000 mah battery isn't that big at all.

post #45 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post
 


You don't know what you're talking about. An 8000 mah battery isn't that big at all.

 

 

That's a 8000mah battery right there.

 

Seems like a pretty big battery for a portable audio player to me*.

 

*(but hey, maybe you have the hands of Rachmaninoff xD)


Edited by zachchen1996 - 4/30/14 at 10:37am
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