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YULONG D200 Impression : ES9016 Balanced DAC + Class A Single End Headphone Amp + Balanced Pre-amp - Page 5

post #61 of 304

No, It's only my *humble* opinion seeing, on the web, the first measurement sheets

post #62 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by customNuts View Post

Oh dear, thats nice. Like a supercharged nfb-28. Will be quite a while till I could afford it though.frown.gif

Super charged NFB28? Seriously doubted that, Oppo is great for video indeed.
post #63 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


Super charged NFB28? Seriously doubted that, Oppo is great for video indeed.

I'm interested to hear your opinion on this. Do you think NFB-28 will give HA-1 a run for it's money?

post #64 of 304

Don't really need a three in one unit but would be cool if Yulong came out with a cheaper ESS9016 version of the D18 though.

 

Looking forward to more feedback on the D200 anyway.

post #65 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by customNuts View Post

Well said Andy - your funny btw.

Luke, if your getting into it all, I would definitely start with the d200. I Haven't heard it yet but have heard all of yulongs other pieces (minus my still to arrive d8/a8). Anyway I have a pretty good guess at it's level of performance and value. In head-fi, the journey is the best bit, as opposed to jumping straight to the destination. I was super impressed by the d100 after owning $2500 Antelope zodiac DAC & amp. Of course the zodiac was better (not but a lot though) but Yulong's was different in a really specially way. He is buy far my favourite designer. To give you an idea, I owned $4000usd of Audio-gd's flagship system. The latest model Ref 7.1 ( the one just before Master7) & the Master 5 amp (just before the Master 9). A true 'hi-end' system by any account. 
When Grant Fidelity announced Yulongs new sabre dac D18 and amp A18, I just had to try it. To put it mildly I was blown away that these tiny 'in comparison' units, sitting next to the behemoth AGD flagship, was putting out the sound it did. It was very different, really musical yet quite neutral - the sound sig has been explained a lot. Either way I sold the AGD stack as I favoured the Yulong stack. Yes my sound signature preference had a lot to do with it as it does with every one, but regardless, I think that says a lot with what Yulong can do. Hence I'm peeing myself waiting to see what he really can do with no holds barred massive d8/a8. 
So what I'm trying to say is don't jump straight to the top with the DA8. I would definitely enjoy his 'apparently stunning" D200 and use the balanced out for your headphones. I can build you an adapter cable if you want. This is the kind of performance 8 years ago people would pay exorbitant money for so your not starting in the gutter thats for sure. Once you've enjoyed the hell out of it, sell it or keep it and then go for the top. Then You'll really appreciate the refinements that will have been made to make the DA8 a true hi-end DAC. 
Just my opinion, but with a designer so special and who offers such value, you'll enjoy the journey for sure.

DA8 is not the end game, to some, this is a natural step up from D200, but to others, it will be their perfect desktop starters, especially for those who has good experience in portable/IEM part of the HeadFi hobby and know the game pretty well already.

So in fact I want to hear more about Luke's current game and plan before we advice, he really need to tell us more otherwise we can only share from our own perspective.
post #66 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post

That's a very logical and helpful post! Appreciate your suggestion and the reasoning behind. I am not in hurry to purchase as I will be receiving my Theorem 720 today, hence I will need time to enjoy this first. I am also interested in Oppo's forthcoming HA-1 which will be IMO a direct competition of DA8. I am not into buying and selling stuff, however D200 is high on my list. I will wait for  your review of D200 even if is still couple of months from now. smily_headphones1.gif

As I am using D200 and Alpha Dog, a closed back Planar headphone, so naturally I have serious interest in the HA-1 and PM-1 too, I'll try it out when they are available, which should be pretty straight forward as Oppo is kind of popular in Hong Kong.

However, I am skeptical to put the Oppo up against any dedicated audiophile lines before we find out more about the new toys, I have a feeling that they will be something along the line of Teac - I give them credit for expanding the HeadFi market segment but will not put them against the best buy audiophile products seriously.
post #67 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post

I'm interested to hear your opinion on this. Do you think NFB-28 will give HA-1 a run for it's money?

Probably the wrong person and the wrong place to seek advice on this, as I have yet to hear the NFB-28, so even I tried out the HA-1 in near future, I probably won't be able to offer any opinion regarding HA-1 vs NFB-28.
post #68 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainFood View Post

Don't really need a three in one unit but would be cool if Yulong came out with a cheaper ESS9016 version of the D18 though.

Looking forward to more feedback on the D200 anyway.

Yulong actually has explained that in this (DA8/D200) market segment, there is no point to do a standalone DAC, and the retail price of a standalone DAC will end up more expensive at retail, that's why he opt for all-in-one direction instead.

His reasoning goes like this. If he take away the headphone amp and preamp function of the DA8/D200, he can save a small amount on the BOM (bill of material), but the cost to produce, pack, sell, and support the unit will remain unchanged. He expected the sales volume (and hence production volume) will decreased quite significantly after he take out the headphone amp and Premap function, and he need to increase the price in order to cover the overhead and cost of sales per unit based.
post #69 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


DA8 is not the end game, to some, this is a natural step up from D200, but to others, it will be their perfect desktop starters, especially for those who has good experience in portable/IEM part of the HeadFi hobby and know the game pretty well already.

So in fact I want to hear more about Luke's current game and plan before we advice, he really need to tell us more otherwise we can only share from our own perspective.

Of course the DA8 is not the end of the road. There are systems worth more than 10x as much. I thought that was obvious. Its was simply a figure of speech. To people without unlimited funds it certainly provides performance that will only be noticeably bettered by spending a lot more - typically speaking.  Good example DA8 $1200, D8 $2550. And it just goes up from there at quite a pace. Its the law of diminishing returns - hence d200 should provide a lot more for bang for the buck then the DA8 does. And a $50 cmoy portable amp will provide a lot more for the money than a DA8. It's an exponential graph. As performance goes up, the price goes up exponentially. Like $50,000 DAC won't sound 40 times better than the DA8.  And the DA8 is by no means the kind of DAC people typically start out with btw. That would be quite a rare (but not implausible) situation imo.

Andy you can answer Luke's questions how ever you like, & I'll do the same. I simply spent quite some time offering advice and answering questions that he has thanked me for. & btw, I always share from my own perspective & experiences. How else would you share? There is no such thing as 'our advice'. Mine will be different from yours due to our differences in time & experience on head-fi.

I've been in the game for many years Andy and actively on head-fi for at 4 years. I have bought & sold many dac's, amps, portable & desktop, most flagship headphones and iems including the JH 16 & then the JH3a /JH16. I have not updated my profile list as it will take some time and I keep putting off.

 

If you want to hear more about Luke's current game plan, which he has already explained to a certain level, then ask Luke yourself. Please don't ask him vicariously in a post to me whilst asking me to stop 'offering advice'. Thats what people with experience do on head-fi, especially when asked to, offer advice. Most importantly my advice comes from the experience of actually owning the unit in question. And if it's a new unit and it's speculative talk then I make that very clear. ie D200

Lastly the the DA8 is not definitively the natural step up from the d200 IMO. As a DAC, the D18 is. And when my d200 arrives I will know how they're DAC sections compare. It would be very surprising if it surpassed the much higher spec'd & relatively more expensive (due to being just a dac) D18. Conversely if someone is looking for an all in one unit ie not just a DAC, then of course the DA8 is the next step albeit quite a jump in price. 

post #70 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


Super charged NFB28? Seriously doubted that, Oppo is great for video indeed.

Why, have you owned both units? With the same dac chip and a plethora of features including balanced and Single ended analogue inputs, it is a very similar setup. & at almost twice the price, or at least substantially more (as I'm not sure if final price has been determined for each market/country) I believe calling the oppo a supercharged nfb-28 is very accurate.

I owned the 28 for a enough time to understand it thoroughly and I also owned the balanced OPPO BDP-105 which the new oppo is said to be based on & of course using the same dac chip. As it will be sold around the same price as the 105 and it doesn't offer all the source/bluray/dvd/cd functions, it would be a wise assumption to say the new oppo's dac will be an improvement on the 105 Dac.

So to say "Supercharged NFB28? Seriously doubt that' is inappropriate, unfounded and simply wrong. The DAC section of the 105 was on another level to the 28.  More musical, more detail, more lively yet with that 9018 precision. It was a wicked dac and I would have kept it if I had use for the bluray/dvd/cd player. The 28 wasn't miles behind it but still, a different level non the less IME from owning both.

post #71 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


As I am using D200 and Alpha Dog, a closed back Planar headphone, so naturally I have serious interest in the HA-1 and PM-1 too, I'll try it out when they are available, which should be pretty straight forward as Oppo is kind of popular in Hong Kong.

However, I am skeptical to put the Oppo up against any dedicated audiophile lines before we find out more about the new toys, I have a feeling that they will be something along the line of Teac - I give them credit for expanding the HeadFi market segment but will not put them against the best buy audiophile products seriously.

 

The New Oppo and the Older Oppo 105 & 95 are absolutely a dedicated audiophile line. The are used as transports in some of the most hi-end systems I've seen worth well over $50,000. Then when they went balanced & also used the flagship sabre dac chip (in fact 2 of them) in the 105, they made quite a statement that Oppo was an audiophile brand & speaking from experience, they certainly are. Now that they have brought out a unit that has no video etc and improves on the 105 DAC design to make it an absolutely audiophile DAC/AMP. To not consider Oppo, especially there new sabre dac  balanced units an audiophile line is again unfounded and just completely un true. Its best to understand units better whether through research or preferably owning them before making these statements. New-comers can often take what they read as facts not knowing the experience of the poster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post

That's a very logical and helpful post! Appreciate your suggestion and the reasoning behind. I am not in hurry to purchase as I will be receiving my Theorem 720 today, hence I will need time to enjoy this first. I am also interested in Oppo's forthcoming HA-1 which will be IMO a direct competition of DA8. I am not into buying and selling stuff, however D200 is high on my list. I will wait for  your review of D200 even if is still couple of months from now. smily_headphones1.gif
 

Thanks again luke. 

Andy, not sure why your putting replies to me in your posts, especially ones like the one above.

 

 

I

post #72 of 304

Moving on, I'll until I have received my d200 and can offer my impression to hopefully help some people - as you did with your excellent, comprehensive review Andy.

My D8 will arrive later in the week and the A8 soon after. Once I have them settled and I have explored them thoroughly (with burn-in off course), I'll write up my impressions with note to how they compare to the D200, D18, A18, DA8, NFB28, Master 5 amp (very similar to the new Master 9). I found the D18 to have amazing synergy with the more neutral monster Master 5. 

post #73 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeap69 View Post
 

In your opinion Andy, is the price difference between DA8 and D200 worth it in terms of performance? (No safe answer please :-))

 

Similar question but specifically how the two compare as standalone DACs only, in particular when playing CDs since that will be an important, if not only, usage for me.

 

I was blown away by the Chord Chordette HD playing regular CDs (CD Player as transport) in my system and from what I've read I imagine the DA8 would likely be a good competitor ... and since that's DAC only if that is an area where the D200 is close to the DA8 well then we're talking!

 

I realize that is not the focus for many here but should someone experiment would like to get impressions.

post #74 of 304

D200 ordered. I'll be writing a review with comparison to all the units I've owned and become very familiar with. Ie D100, D18,A18, DA8 & briefly D8/A8. I'll also include the audio-gd units I've owned as AGD & Yulong certainly seem to be quite the competitors so I will concentrate on those manufactures. Specifically NFb10SE, NFB-28, Ref.71, & briefly Master 5 amp. Hopefully it will help answer some of the questions.

post #75 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by customNuts View Post
 

D200 ordered. I'll be writing a review with comparison to all the units I've owned and become very familiar with. Ie D100, D18,A18, DA8 & briefly D8/A8. I'll also include the audio-gd units I've owned as AGD & Yulong certainly seem to be quite the competitors so I will concentrate on those manufactures. Specifically NFb10SE, NFB-28, Ref.71, & briefly Master 5 amp. Hopefully it will help answer some of the questions.

I will be very interested in how you find the D200 compares to the D18 (which I still own). You must be the worlds leading collector of Yulong equipment. The pressure is on you. If you report the D200 to be superior I will be jumping in. Frankly, I have my doubts since I have compared the D18 to several more expensive dacs and can't find a compelling reason to switch until I get to uncomfortable price points. Yes, I have heard the Vega and it is clearly superior but the price in my market is the cost of a small car.

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