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YULONG D200 Impression : ES9016 Balanced DAC + Class A Single End Headphone Amp + Balanced Pre-amp - Page 12

post #166 of 304

This is such an impressive little DAC. I've been burning mine in and waiting for my monster flagship A8 & D8 to arrive (plus been flat out with other issues). Regardless, I - in general find the 9016 chip to be the more energetic chip and the 9018 to be the more refined & neutral. So many other factors control the end result (ie d18 with 9018 is the most musical dac I've ever heard) but that been my experience. I managed to sit on my beloved d7000's (breaking a simple clip but god knows how long that will take to remedy) and my balanced 650 cable all in one day. So I'm left with my balanced T1's and single ended 650's and boy do they sing on both setups. We all know of the exponential curve where the more you pay, the less you get and this is most certainly true here. 

With out the a8/d8 being burnt in yet (& with 4x torriodals, it needs it imo) it sounds gorgeous with the T1's & 650's. The DAC is far more neutral, the amp still noticeably musical, making a fine sounding system. In fact it's straight out stunning and improving by the day. 

Now.... we're talking $5000usd vs $629usd however, doing some quick headphone swaps, you wouldn't believe how close this little powerhouse gets. Its less refined (overall but mostly in the treble) and more in ya face/energetic which can lead to fatigue a little easier of course.

Bottom line, I honestly forget which one I'm listening to sometimes. 

I always use Yulongs excellent usb input. Its so well implemented that you would need a serious usb/sdpif converter to improve on it -slightly IMO anyway. I've owned a few good ones like the audiophillo and the maxxed off ramp 5, and I would be looking up around the off ramp performance if I was to try and up a notch via spdif entry. In fact I just bought Paul Pangs USB card which should improve things nicely. Then maybe I'll try his money back guarantee (off memory) usb to spdif converter as well. Its supposed to be a beast for the value. 

Anyway, I'll write some more later in a small review with note to how the d200 compares to some audio-gd units like the nfb10 & nfb28, Ref 7.1 (8x PCM1704UK) & Master 5.

 

I forgot soundstage - there is quite a jump in wide 3d soundstage with the statement a8/d8 (as you'd expect of course).

If I keep writing, I'll have nothing left for the review so I'll shut up now!


Edited by customNuts - 6/6/14 at 7:37am
post #167 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by customNuts View Post

This is such an impressive little DAC. I've been burning mine in and waiting for my monster flagship A8 & D8 to arrive (plus been flat out with other issues). Regardless, I - in general find the 9016 chip to be the more energetic chip and the 9018 to be the more refined & neutral. So many other factors control the end result (ie d18 with 9018 is the most musical dac I've ever heard) but that been my experience. I managed to sit on my beloved d7000's (breaking a simple clip but god knows how long that will take to remedy) and my balanced 650 cable all in one day. So I'm left with my balanced T1's and single ended 650's and boy do they sing on both setups. We all know of the exponential curve where the more you pay, the less you get and this is most certainly true here. 
With out the a8/d8 being burnt in yet (& with 4x torriodals, it needs it imo) it sounds gorgeous with the T1's & 650's. The DAC is far more neutral, the amp still noticeably musical, making a fine sounding system. In fact it's straight out stunning and improving by the day. 
Now.... we're talking $5000usd vs $629usd however, doing some quick headphone swaps, you wouldn't believe how close this little powerhouse gets. Its less refined (overall but mostly in the treble) and more in ya face/energetic which can lead to fatigue a little easier of course.
Bottom line, I honestly forget which one I'm listening to sometimes. 
I always use Yulongs excellent usb input. Its so well implemented that you would need a serious usb/sdpif converter to improve on it -slightly IMO anyway. I've owned a few good ones like the audiophillo and the maxxed off ramp 5, and I would be looking up around the off ramp performance if I was to try and up a notch via spdif entry. In fact I just bought Paul Pangs USB card which should improve things nicely. Then maybe I'll try his money back guarantee (off memory) usb to spdif converter as well. Its supposed to be a beast for the value. 
Anyway, I'll write some more later in a small review with note to how the d200 compares to some audio-gd units like the nfb10 & nfb28, Ref 7.1 (8x PCM1704UK) & Master 5.

I forgot soundstage - there is quite a jump in wide 3d soundstage with the statement a8/d8 (as you'd expect of course).
If I keep writing, I'll have nothing left for the review so I'll shut up now!

You really are testing our patient, man, Come on, don't just stop there, keep your sharing going, this impression thread has been here for 6 weeks already and yet we are waiting for second set of impression, so please keep the detail rolling in, our de facto Yulong expert.
post #168 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TominJapan View Post

Well both.....the devil is in the details and at such price point a part of the experience includes hardware design and quality. Some people refrain from buying the HD800, regardless of the money they want to spend, simply because well it looks "ugly".Of course, I am pretty optimistic YuLong can sort this out shortly. 

Regarding the volume control, maybe I'll try to explain a little bit more.

In general there are two type of volume control. The first and traditional design is the stepped attenuator type volume pot, they are firm, accurate and discrete, you can feel the grab when you turn the volume, this is what we are used to in hifi equipment. There is one short coming on this type of volume pot in general, the knob can't turn 1 full cycle, probably 300 degree is as much as you can get. As a result of that, you probably get 20 to 30 steps control across the complete range of volume control. To illustrate this, please take a look into the Burson Conductor all-in-one and Soloist headphone amplifier. Burson boosted the quality of their stepped attenuator volume control, that is one of their selling point on broucher, but the fact that you only get 24 steps control available make it difficult to work with at time.

On the other hand, D200 used digital volume control, so the volume knob is nothing more then on/off interface to the firmware resided inside the DAC, The D200 volume control offer 80 steps in total, and you can turn the volume 4 complete cycle, which means you can get lot more fine control in the volume setting with this design. The down side is, in order to allow multiple complete turns, the mechanical design of the volume pot will not be as firm as the step attenuator type, it can be zero gap tight but will increase significant product cost and yet product no add-on value on the sonic performance - remember it is an on-off interface only.

To clarify our doubt, I have checked with Yulong today, he told me that the volume knob used in D200 is a customized item from TOCOS, Japan, it is definitely an heavy duty components that can withstand substantial usage, it is not a flimsy components as some have speculated, its just a different design and feel that we are not familiar with.

However, if you insisted that you do not want a DAC that describe minimum volume as 0db, then there is not a lot of room for discussion already as Yulong will unlikely to change that design. The bad news is, Yulong is not the only manufacturer adopt the 0db description on volume, your choice probably will be seriously limited as a result of that.
post #169 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksiderjay View Post

IMHO, yulong d200 as all-in-one was able to drive seinnheiser hd650 decently. The sound is good but not great. I bypass the its amp in my set up.The only all in one dac/amp that is available for my comparison is Fiio E17. I would say it definitely sound a lot cleaner and more articulate than Fiio E17. Not even close i would say(I know it's not fair to compare this two as they belonged to diifferent leagues). But once you set it up with standalone amp you wouldn't want to use it as all-in-one at all. I try d200 on different genre of music, classical, enya, eric clapton, neil young, hiphop, eminem, dr dre, katy parry, lady gaga etc. Detailed, clean, spacious, warm are the words  that i would like to use to describe. I could even hear Norah Jone breathing in her song smily_headphones1.gif. But it definitely less forgiving for poor recording source. Some of my poor recording song crackling noise became so obvious that it's literally unlistenable.

I concur with your HD650 experience with D200 and I have heard this combo at Yulong's demo room. The HD650 can be dark or even muddy when not handled correctly, but both DA8 and D200 are fall from that, D200 make the HD650 sings well at this price point, and DA8 will make you feel laid back but not lazy.

And I also agree that once you tried a standslone amp. with D200, you won't go back to the all-in-one D200, and that's my biggest headache right now.

However, I am also interested to know what amplifier you have used with D200, esp how it improved the D200/HD650 combo and to what level, care to share with us more along this line?
post #170 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

0 dB is pretty standard for most devices as max or near max volume isn't it? I've only had a few devices that displayed volumes in terms of dB and they were all similar in that regard.

Yes, I agreed with you completely, all the professional equipment I have encountered go for that track, but portable (such as DAP) and mass market consumer electronic probably stick with the "large number is louder" approach.

I think we can differentiate them by looking at the "unit" of the number. when we have dB marked along side a number, that means 0db is the loudest point, and when you turn down the volume, you have a negative number displayed and the unit remain unchanged as dB all along. But if the volume information on display is merely a number, that means you are working with a scaled ranged rather then accurate dB type volume control, and in that, 0 stand for silent, and larger number will mean louder volume.
post #171 of 304
i misread actually The 0dB is not a problem a my current equipment has it, the knob tolerance is indeed.ptentialy one regardless of the equipment origin.
i will visit one of the shops selling Yu Long's products here in Shanghai later this month brick and Mortar is the safest way I guess and I can touch and compare and listen.
since you called Yu long Have you checked with Yu Long about the XLR cable by chance ?
post #172 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TominJapan View Post

i misread actually The 0dB is not a problem a my current equipment has it, the knob tolerance is indeed.ptentialy one regardless of the equipment origin.
i will visit one of the shops selling Yu Long's products here in Shanghai later this month brick and Mortar is the safest way I guess and I can touch and compare and listen.
since you called Yu long Have you checked with Yu Long about the XLR cable by chance ?

Indeed the best way out is to check it out yourself, it is not a matter of origin but rather a result of product design issue.

I didn't call Yulong, he hosted a mini forum in a PRC headfi portal, users can get in touch with him directly -- in Chinese though.
http://erji.net/thread.php?fid=150

Regarding the Music Haven adapter, I have checked again, it won't work, That is a convertor for 2x3pin XLR balanced headphone out to 1x4pin balanced headphone, they use two 3pins XLR Male. If you look at the adapter photo I put up on page 1, you'll notice that the DA8/D200 adapter used 2x3pins XLR FEMALE. So that is a wrong plug for this purpose.

By the way, while you are visiting headphone shops in Shanghai, you can try out Goldenwave GD01 as well, it is same price and similar functionality and quality with D200. It doesn't has pre-out function but come with a 4 pin balanced connector in the faceplate, which might it easier to everyone as that is a standard connector and you don't need to worry about customizing a cable for that purpose.
post #173 of 304
Thanks a lot Andy, I may just buy another cable for my HD650 then with two 3pin XLR. Pretty much the same budget vs buying an adapter.
post #174 of 304
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TominJapan View Post

Thanks a lot Andy, I may just buy another cable for my HD650 then with two 3pin XLR. Pretty much the same budget vs buying an adapter.

You better check again, most aftermarket cable are using two 3pins XLR Male connectors, but to use D200 balance, you are connecting to the line out and you need two 3 pin XLR FEMALE connector instead, so unless you customize the cable yourself, otherwise it is unlikely that you can buy an aftermarket cable and plug into D200 backplate directly.
post #175 of 304
andy thanks for the reminder, I intend to add two small female to female 3 pin xlr adapters.
post #176 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


I concur with your HD650 experience with D200 and I have heard this combo at Yulong's demo room. The HD650 can be dark or even muddy when not handled correctly, but both DA8 and D200 are fall from that, D200 make the HD650 sings well at this price point, and DA8 will make you feel laid back but not lazy.

And I also agree that once you tried a standslone amp. with D200, you won't go back to the all-in-one D200, and that's my biggest headache right now.

However, I am also interested to know what amplifier you have used with D200, esp how it improved the D200/HD650 combo and to what level, care to share with us more along this line?

How about two NuForce HA-200 to amp the D200 .... ? Seems these NuForce use same (?) technology as the CMA800R.... not the same price point of course. 

I saw D18 is now discounted at less than $500 and I was wondering whether I should jump to D18 + two NuForce HA-200, hesitant though as the HD650 may sound too "punchy" as posters in another thread said , yet for my HD540 II it might be perfect ..... Difficult ! :confused: 

Have you seen comparisons between D200 and D18 on erji.net ?

post #177 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post

You really are testing our patient, man, Come on, don't just stop there, keep your sharing going, this impression thread has been here for 6 weeks already and yet we are waiting for second set of impression, so please keep the detail rolling in, our de facto Yulong expert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by customNuts View Post

This is such an impressive little DAC. I've been burning mine in and waiting for my monster flagship A8 & D8 to arrive (plus been flat out with other issues). Regardless, I - in general find the 9016 chip to be the more energetic chip and the 9018 to be the more refined & neutral. So many other factors control the end result (ie d18 with 9018 is the most musical dac I've ever heard) but that been my experience. I managed to sit on my beloved d7000's (breaking a simple clip but god knows how long that will take to remedy) and my balanced 650 cable all in one day. So I'm left with my balanced T1's and single ended 650's and boy do they sing on both setups. We all know of the exponential curve where the more you pay, the less you get and this is most certainly true here. 
With out the a8/d8 being burnt in yet (& with 4x torriodals, it needs it imo) it sounds gorgeous with the T1's & 650's. The DAC is far more neutral, the amp still noticeably musical, making a fine sounding system. In fact it's straight out stunning and improving by the day. 
Now.... we're talking $5000usd vs $629usd however, doing some quick headphone swaps, you wouldn't believe how close this little powerhouse gets. Its less refined (overall but mostly in the treble) and more in ya face/energetic which can lead to fatigue a little easier of course.
Bottom line, I honestly forget which one I'm listening to sometimes. 
I always use Yulongs excellent usb input. Its so well implemented that you would need a serious usb/sdpif converter to improve on it -slightly IMO anyway. I've owned a few good ones like the audiophillo and the maxxed off ramp 5, and I would be looking up around the off ramp performance if I was to try and up a notch via spdif entry. In fact I just bought Paul Pangs USB card which should improve things nicely. Then maybe I'll try his money back guarantee (off memory) usb to spdif converter as well. Its supposed to be a beast for the value. 
Anyway, I'll write some more later in a small review with note to how the d200 compares to some audio-gd units like the nfb10 & nfb28, Ref 7.1 (8x PCM1704UK) & Master 5.

I forgot soundstage - there is quite a jump in wide 3d soundstage with the statement a8/d8 (as you'd expect of course).
If I keep writing, I'll have nothing left for the review so I'll shut up now!

don't shut up ! redface.gif Please include a D18 vs D200 comparison in your soon to come mad.gif review
post #178 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by TominJapan View Post
 

How about two NuForce HA-200 to amp the D200 .... ? Seems these NuForce use same (?) technology as the CMA800R.... not the same price point of course. 

I saw D18 is now discounted at less than $500 and I was wondering whether I should jump to D18 + two NuForce HA-200, hesitant though as the HD650 may sound too "punchy" as posters in another thread said , yet for my HD540 II it might be perfect ..... Difficult ! :confused: 

Have you seen comparisons between D200 and D18 on erji.net ?

 

 

Seems reasonable. I might have to check out the HA-200 combo one of these days. It's not the same technology as Questyle uses (as far as their proprietary current mode architecture) but it does have the same concept for dual mono, fully balanced operation. Armaegis has the HA-200 and really likes them and I trust his opinion so I'm intrigued. 

post #179 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post


Seems reasonable. I might have to check out the HA-200 combo one of these days. It's not the same technology as Questyle uses (as far as their proprietary current mode architecture) but it does have the same concept for dual mono, fully balanced operation. Armaegis has the HA-200 and really likes them and I trust his opinion so I'm intrigued. 

cool, any preliminary advice as to D18 vs D200 ?
post #180 of 304

Tom do you mean the D18 or the DA8?

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