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Stereo imaging and headphone: Have we been underestimating our ability to percieve? - Page 2

post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Sure, but most sounds aren't hard panned to the left or right. Also, the fully open-backed designs have a LOT of leakage. Isn't there enough positional information to get a good idea of where sounds are in the mix?

 

If they aren't hard-panned, they'd have narrower soundstage (but that's absolutely the point)

 

Even if we treat open-backed headphones as perfectly-leaking omnidirectional sources, it would sound like the instrument is playing right outside your ear (because it is playing right outside your ear)

post #17 of 34

All I got to say is Chesky and binaural.  :o

post #18 of 34
Binaural is different. Soundstage with speakers can be created in the mix. Binaural has to be captured in the miking. That's more limiting.
post #19 of 34
I wonder about binaural...I have a few binaural recordings and though it sounds 'better' than a normal recording (through headphones of course) I don't notice a big difference or a wow factor at all...
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post

I wonder about binaural...I have a few binaural recordings and though it sounds 'better' than a normal recording (through headphones of course) I don't notice a big difference or a wow factor at all...

Try this one, and let me know if you think the same ;)

 

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post

I wonder about binaural...I have a few binaural recordings and though it sounds 'better' than a normal recording (through headphones of course) I don't notice a big difference or a wow factor at all...


I think the wow-factor is much more obvious when you can instantly transition between binaural and non-binaural to really hear the difference. There's two ways to do that:

 

1) use a crossfeed DSP to simulate the effect of speakers. You can turn it on and off to get a sense of the difference between the two. I use b2sb in foobar and I jack the crossfeed level up to -2dB for a more satisfying effect.

 

2) Find a recording that has been recorded in using both binaural and standard methods. Then you could use the A/B switcher in Foobar's abx plugin to swap between the tracks and hear the difference. The only album of which I'm aware that has both a binaural and regular recordings of the same tracks is the "explorations in space and time" which is another Chesky offering in addition to SilverEar's suggestion.

 

Cheers

post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab initio View Post
 


I think the wow-factor is much more obvious when you can instantly transition between binaural and non-binaural to really hear the difference. There's two ways to do that:

 

1) use a crossfeed DSP to simulate the effect of speakers. You can turn it on and off to get a sense of the difference between the two. I use b2sb in foobar and I jack the crossfeed level up to -2dB for a more satisfying effect.

 

2) Find a recording that has been recorded in using both binaural and standard methods. Then you could use the A/B switcher in Foobar's abx plugin to swap between the tracks and hear the difference. The only album of which I'm aware that has both a binaural and regular recordings of the same tracks is the "explorations in space and time" which is another Chesky offering in addition to SilverEar's suggestion.

 

Cheers

 

i have an elvis disc with stereo, mono, and binaural takes on the same track (loving you).  i prefer the binaural but to me it's mostly a fatigue thing not because i think it sounds so much better than stereo.  i have a cowboy junkies (live at the ark) which was recorded in binaural...it's a fantastic recording, sounds amazing....but i'm not convinced that it sounds so much better than a normal recording would, especially with the careful application of good crossfeed.  i have a couple chesky discs but i don't really like any of the music so it's not quite a fair comparison to me

 

i'm a big crossfeed believer, but i nearly always prefer a small amount rather than a lot (JRiver has 6 pre-configured levels, and i have b2sb for foobar as well)

 

i guess what i'm saying, is that to me binaural isn't really any different than a good crossfeed, the differences i notice are more fatigue related than WOW! factor, and due to the fact binaural sounds weird on hi-fi, i don't think it's a market worth pursuing


Edited by ferday - 4/25/14 at 11:59am
post #23 of 34

I understand what you guys are saying about sound bouncing off different object to provide sense of what kind of space you are on.  What if you are outside?  Is it more of an ideal environment for music, if let's say hypothetically no noise around since there will be no reflection of sound waves?  

 

I recall this affect of sense of space caused by reflected waves was simulated with software that came with computer audio cards.  Although it's not like binaural or suround sound like imaging, I believe even my iems provide some cue of different sound that are separated.  iems do carry some sort of stage like sound signature to some degree depending on the phones.  


Edited by SilverEars - 4/25/14 at 6:15pm
post #24 of 34

The room is part of the sound. You don't want to eliminate it. You want to optimize it.

post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

The room is part of the sound. You don't want to eliminate it. You want to optimize it.

Why do people add damping material on the wall?  Isn't the point to not have reflected sound waves that may distort the waves coming out to you from the speakers?  Ideally don't you only want waves coming straight from the speakers, not the reflected sound(except low range, I think you need reflections)?


Edited by SilverEars - 4/25/14 at 6:26pm
post #26 of 34

The point of room treatment is to correct detrimental reflections- ones that cause cancellation or reflect so many times they turn into a mush. You don't want to make the room totally dead with padding everywhere absorbing everything. A little bit of sound off the walls adds dimension to the sound. Look at concert halls. They have a carefully controlled acoustic, but they still have some reverberation.

post #27 of 34

Hear the beginning portion(the water pouring, and try to ignore the dress. :p) of this and tell me if this is binaural.  :L3000:  I've heard this kind effect on recordings before.

 

 


Edited by SilverEars - 5/4/14 at 11:16am
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Hear the beginning portion(the water pouring, and try to ignore the dress. :p) of this and tell me if this is binaural.  :L3000:  I've heard this kind effect on recordings before.

 

 

 

After switching back and forth several times between my headphones and my speakers (and being mostly, but not entirely successful at ignoring the dress :wink_face:), I definitely get a substantially better and more lifelike soundstage on that recording through my speakers, which implies to me that it isn't binaural.

post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
 

 

After switching back and forth several times between my headphones and my speakers (and being mostly, but not entirely successful at ignoring the dress :wink_face:), I definitely get a substantially better and more lifelike soundstage on that recording through my speakers, which implies to me that it isn't binaural.

What's interesting is the I get better spacial imaging with my custom in ear monitors which is molded for my ears than my favorite cans.  There are lots of talks of custom in ear monitors providing imaging, and I figures recording provide imaging of some sorts that headphones can pick up.

post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferday View Post

I wonder about binaural...I have a few binaural recordings and though it sounds 'better' than a normal recording (through headphones of course) I don't notice a big difference or a wow factor at all...


+1 on that.  Some are pretty good, but never got any WOW that is Great moments listening.  I haven't heard any I would put on my list of 50 most realistic recordings list.

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