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Logitech UE 9000 vs AKG K845BT - Page 4

post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by apertotes View Post

Damn, I am really sorry, but I am a total noob. I did not understand your answer. Videos use their own audio codecs, like mp3, mp3, aac, etc. Does that list also incluso lossless codecs like ogg or FLAC that would supposedly benefit from aptx profile?

Videos use their own codecs (like you said). Then normally do not use lossless audio though.

I do want to clarify one other thing though. If the headphones don't support something like AAC, APTX will, and can, step in and be used as a codec (the AAC would be converted to work in real time). You won't get a loss in quality, but if AAC is supported, that codec will be used instead (you won't get a loss in quality, but no conversion will be required).
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

Videos use their own codecs (like you said). Then normally do not use lossless audio though.

I do want to clarify one other thing though. If the headphones don't support something like AAC, APTX will, and can, step in and be used as a codec (the AAC would be converted to work in real time). You won't get a loss in quality, but if AAC is supported, that codec will be used instead (you won't get a loss in quality, but no conversion will be required).

 

I read in the aptx official page that aptx also has lower latency than regular BT. Would that also apply while watching any video regardless of the codecs? or only when the profile is being actively used?

 

I am sorry for being so full of questions. I just begun taking audio mildly seriously and i have so much information to assimilate.

post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by apertotes View Post

I read in the aptx official page that aptx also has lower latency than regular BT. Would that also apply while watching any video regardless of the codecs? or only when the profile is being actively used?

I am sorry for being so full of questions. I just begun taking audio mildly seriously and i have so much information to assimilate.

What? I don't see how it can have less latency, but OK...
post #49 of 71

http://www.csr.com/products/aptx-low-latency

 

Quote:
aptX® Low Latency for Bluetooth® offers  a total end-to-end latency of just 32 milliseconds (ms) – far less than the standard Bluetooth latency of more than 150 ms (+/-50ms), and well under the 40 ms recommended latency for audio/video applications.
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by apertotes View Post
 

http://www.csr.com/products/aptx-low-latency

 

 

The product needs to support APTX low-latency as well as the phone.  Whether or not it'll be used for movies is up to the headphone or device in question.  CSR offers 5 different software packages for APTX:

  • Low Latency
  • Lossless
  • Enhanced
  • Live
  • (regular)

 

Scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.csr.com/products/technology/audio-processing  So in order to support this, the device would have to support that software as well as the headphones.  If one of them doesn't, you can't use that. 

post #51 of 71

Hi all.  I've just added the K845BT to my collection (which includes K550, K551, UE6000 and many others), and have a couple notes to share.

 

1.  Under all conditions its sound signature is pretty K550/K551-like and not at all like the (to my ears) bassy and rolled-off presentation of the UE6000.  (I don't have a UE9000 for comparison.)  Wired and amped I think it's great for a sealed headphone.  Wired and unamped, or unwired, I think it's very good, and I'm happy to use it on the go, but it's not up to my personal critical-listening standards.

 

2.  It weighs noticeably more than a K551, but I like it better for mobile use, even apart from the Bluetooth functionality.  On my head at least, the smaller earcups give me a better seal, as well as making for a somewhat less dorky fashion statement. 

 

3.  Potentially useful fact: the UE4000/6000 cable, with on-cord volume and play/pause controls and mic, fits perfectly into the K845BT's socket.  So for the price of a UE4000 (currently very cheap, especially if you're not picky about color) you can swap out the K845BT's cable for one with on-cable controls and a right-angle connection at the far end.

post #52 of 71

I've done some side-by-side listening and decided my post above is a little bit wrong.

 

When I listen to it in isolation, yes, the K845BT is indeed very reminiscent of the K550/K551.  But side by side it becomes clear how different they are.  Compared to the K551, and with both headphones amped (HeadAmp Pico DAC/amp in this case), the K845BT is substantially bassier / fun-sounding, and also substantially less clear in the top end, making female vocals less clearly enunciated and robbing the sonic image of some of the air and sense of the acoustic space that I like to hear.

 

It's still nowhere near as bassy/rolled-off as the UE 6000; it just leans a little bit in that direction, compared to the K550/K551.

 

It also (for what it's worth) is less efficient than the K550/1, needing a higher volume setting to generate equivalent perceived volume.

 

Though personally I like the cleanness and clarity of the K550/K551, the K845BT's sound signature is probably more of a popular winner commercially.

post #53 of 71
Thread Starter 

Oops, almost forgot about this thread. Great reads though! Thanks!

post #54 of 71

I know this is a somehow old thread but I wanted to say that it sounds like sci-fi to me acomparison between UE9000 and AKG K845, with the UE9000 being one of the most famous BT Headphones for bass lovers, with not so good performance in highs, and the AKG K845 being one of the most bass lacking BT Headphones ever made. Specially among the high end ones. But having a huge load of highs.

 

That said, I would investigate on other possibilities. Lot of things happened since UE9000.

The Sony MDR-1RBTMK2 are one of these things.

The Plantronics Backbeat pro another one.

The Philips Fideloo M2BT my favorite one.

And the list can go on.

 

I would never buy the AKGK845. It lacks life. At least in BT. But I do not see the point in buying an expensive BT Headphone which performs only good when wired.

 

About Aptx, yes, it DOES improve latency. How?

http://www.aptx.com/howitworks2

But I think there is some confusion here. Aptx is a codec. Not a profile. So, sentences like "I read in the aptx official page that aptx also has lower latency than regular BT. Would that also apply while watching any video regardless of the codecs? or only when the profile is being actively used?" are not reaching the point.

THe Profile is A2DP.

The old Codec is SBC.

APTX is an alternative codec to SBC, but it still works with the A2DP prodile.

post #55 of 71

AKG 845BT is using supports Apt-X over A2DP, but not AAC, unfortunately.

post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBonkingFrog View Post

AKG 845BT is using supports Apt-X over A2DP, but not AAC, unfortunately.
Just impulse bought the AKG K845BT after seeing a great deal on ebay But perhaps didn't do enough prior research which is not like me. Anyway, this thread seems the ideal place for me as I currently own and love the UE9000, however, as much as their sound is perfect for my preferences for on the go listening I have a modest sized head and they just look ridiculous. Normally I don't care too much as long as the sound is right but I just thought I'd explore different bluetooth options to see if it was possible to get the best of both worlds. I like the look of the AKG'S and if the sound is comparable to my UE9000'S they'll replace them. The wireless momentums are also on my wish list but are too expensive at the moment. What do people think? After reading this thread it aoinds like I'm going to be left wanting with regards to bass.
post #57 of 71

I had these, they won't fully cover your ears. they should be classed as super aural. Also the headband is not comfy at all.

 

They do however so good wired or wireless.

post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrecedent View Post


Just impulse bought the AKG K845BT after seeing a great deal on ebay But perhaps didn't do enough prior research which is not like me. Anyway, this thread seems the ideal place for me as I currently own and love the UE9000, however, as much as their sound is perfect for my preferences for on the go listening I have a modest sized head and they just look ridiculous. Normally I don't care too much as long as the sound is right but I just thought I'd explore different bluetooth options to see if it was possible to get the best of both worlds. I like the look of the AKG'S and if the sound is comparable to my UE9000'S they'll replace them. The wireless momentums are also on my wish list but are too expensive at the moment. What do people think? After reading this thread it aoinds like I'm going to be left wanting with regards to bass.


Coming from the UE you will surely hate the AKG. They are among the most bass lacking BT headphones ever made and they do not even improve with EQ.

I had no problem with their comfort. I have found the UE, on the other hand, too heavy.

If they will fully cover your ears is a matter of, ears. My were surely covered.

You should ask people hear to measure the inner diameter of the earpads, and see how long are your ears.

 

Personally, if you want bass, I think you have not many options in the BT world.

You can go with the Fidelio M2BT, which are what comes closest to the bass (and actually also to the sound signature) of the UE, with maybe just a tiny bit less impact on the bass, but otherwise almost the same, with same wonderful sub-bass. The Fidelio have a bit more highs, even if they can be a bit harsh sometimes.

Or you can go with the Audio Technica ATH-WS99BT, they have imo the best sound of all what I have tested till now (if you know my huge comparison thread you know I have tested almost 30 of the best BT Headphones).

I have just written a review of them here on Head-Fi.

Their bass is wonderful. With a bit less body and depth on the Sub-Bass, but overall really powerful and with the impact of the 53mm drivers.

Then, the mids are so clear, strong, present. The highs are crispy and never harsh. The sound is detailed. They are really really good.

But the inner diameter of the pads is just 45mm, not for big ears, and the pads are a bit thin and people with protruding ears complain that their ear touch the drivers.

This can be solved changing the pads with the oval and thicker Brainwavz HM5.

I personally can only suggest them, and not only to bassheads.

Then you have the Bang & Olufsen BeoPlay H8. I am writing a review just now. I cannot suggest them till I receive the replacement, because this unit has got an horrible distortion on sub-bass heavy tracks ad loud volume when the ANC is on. I am not sure if it is the model or my unit. I will test the replacement and ask other users.

but apart for this (which can be workarounded deactivating the ANC) the bass is very good. A step down respect to the other three models, but very good. It does not go so deep in the sub-bass, and it is a little bit dark, but powerfull.

Last option, the Sennheiser Urbanite XL Wireless. They also have some darkness, and some muddiness on the low mids. This improves with EQ, but they still are not as universal as the Audio Technica, although they share with the AT the very good detail, and the warmth and presence of the mids, and clarity of the highs.

But the AT are on another level.

The Senny are more comfy anyway, specially if you do not change pads in the AT.

 

You really have no other options.

The House of Marley Liberate XLBT have a strong bass, but not on this level we are talking about.

 

Well, eventually the Plantronics Backbeat Pro can do a good job.

The bas is punchy, and the rumble is decent, clean.

They do not reach the other ones here, but they would be the next better ones after them. Better than the House of Marley, cleaner for sure.

 

I still did not test the Momentum Wireless. But I have tried the wired ones, On Ear, and I was not impressed by the bass. Even the Bose Soundlink on Ear had more punch.

Somebody wrote somewhere that the Wireless on ear have a bit more bass than the over ear. They will cost less then the Over ear. You may want to wait and try them.

 

I am going to try soon the Pendulumic Stance S1+. They are said to have a very good overall SQ, balanced sound, and powerful bass.

keep an eye on my thread for updates.

post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giogio View Post


Coming from the UE you will surely hate the AKG. They are among the most bass lacking BT headphones ever made and they do not even improve with EQ.
I had no problem with their comfort. I have found the UE, on the other hand, too heavy.
If they will fully cover your ears is a matter of, ears. My were surely covered.
You should ask people hear to measure the inner diameter of the earpads, and see how long are your ears.

Personally, if you want bass, I think you have not many options in the BT world.
You can go with the Fidelio M2BT, which are what comes closest to the bass (and actually also to the sound signature) of the UE, with maybe just a tiny bit less impact on the bass, but otherwise almost the same, with same wonderful sub-bass. The Fidelio have a bit more highs, even if they can be a bit harsh sometimes.
Or you can go with the Audio Technica ATH-WS99BT, they have imo the best sound of all what I have tested till now (if you know my huge comparison thread you know I have tested almost 30 of the best BT Headphones).
I have just written a review of them here on Head-Fi.
Their bass is wonderful. With a bit less body and depth on the Sub-Bass, but overall really powerful and with the impact of the 53mm drivers.
Then, the mids are so clear, strong, present. The highs are crispy and never harsh. The sound is detailed. They are really really good.
But the inner diameter of the pads is just 45mm, not for big ears, and the pads are a bit thin and people with protruding ears complain that their ear touch the drivers.
This can be solved changing the pads with the oval and thicker Brainwavz HM5.
I personally can only suggest them, and not only to bassheads.
Then you have the Bang & Olufsen BeoPlay H8. I am writing a review just now. I cannot suggest them till I receive the replacement, because this unit has got an horrible distortion on sub-bass heavy tracks ad loud volume when the ANC is on. I am not sure if it is the model or my unit. I will test the replacement and ask other users.
but apart for this (which can be workarounded deactivating the ANC) the bass is very good. A step down respect to the other three models, but very good. It does not go so deep in the sub-bass, and it is a little bit dark, but powerfull.
Last option, the Sennheiser Urbanite XL Wireless. They also have some darkness, and some muddiness on the low mids. This improves with EQ, but they still are not as universal as the Audio Technica, although they share with the AT the very good detail, and the warmth and presence of the mids, and clarity of the highs.
But the AT are on another level.
The Senny are more comfy anyway, specially if you do not change pads in the AT.

You really have no other options.
The House of Marley Liberate XLBT have a strong bass, but not on this level we are talking about.

Well, eventually the Plantronics Backbeat Pro can do a good job.
The bas is punchy, and the rumble is decent, clean.
They do not reach the other ones here, but they would be the next better ones after them. Better than the House of Marley, cleaner for sure.

I still did not test the Momentum Wireless. But I have tried the wired ones, On Ear, and I was not impressed by the bass. Even the Bose Soundlink on Ear had more punch.
Somebody wrote somewhere that the Wireless on ear have a bit more bass than the over ear. They will cost less then the Over ear. You may want to wait and try them.

I am going to try soon the Pendulumic Stance S1+. They are said to have a very good overall SQ, balanced sound, and powerful bass.
keep an eye on my thread for updates.

Thanks for the extensive reply. A fre pairs on that list that I'll definitely try at some point (I get through headphones quite quickly)
AKG's arrived today and am really pleasantly surprised after reading comments here about lack of bass. I own the AKG K550 which definitely favour the treble end of the spectrum a lottle too much in my opinion and was slightly concerned that this is were the tuning of the 845's was placed. However, I have only had maybe an hours listening so far and think I may have found exactly what I was looking for in these cans. The look and fit are great and an improvement for me over the UE9000. They are also much lighter/smaller which is a plus. With a bit of volume I find them more than bass adequate over bluetooth and not that far under the UE9000. The only explanation I can have for this is that my UE9000 have a repaired headband which does not clamp very tight. Perhaps this has reduced the bass in my original pair but it seemed thumping to me. The only area I find them inferior to the Ultimate ears is in soundstage and instrument placement which was wide and better seperated in the UE9000. Still, very early days but its looking like these might be the UE replacement I have been looking for.
post #60 of 71
With quite a lot of hours listening now and some A/B comparisons on a number of varied test tracks I feel my initial impressions were pretty justified. Soundstage is definitely smaller on the AKG'S probably due to the shorter distance between ear and driver (one of the reasons the UE9000 look so goofy on my head-they stick out so far!) Bass is much tighter and less boomy on the AKG'S but is still more than adequate (how anyone could describe them as bass light is quite bewildering to me?) The only feasible explanation I can come up with is fit which like the K550's is essential for decent bass response. The treble and detail retrieval at the top end is superior to the UE9000 but this comes at a bit of a cost in the midrange. A good example if this would be Adele's vocals which sound a bit flat and one dimensional with the AKG'S in comparison to the UE9000 on which every breath and sinew of her vocal chords seem evident (More like listening to her sing live in a small intimate gig than hearing a recording. This wasn't apparent with all vocals though. The Kings of Leon "pickup truck" seemed to benefit from the higher resolution at the top end with the subtle cracks and raspiness of his voice. Anyway, I'm definitely considering these as a replacement to my UE9000 at the moment. Watch this space.
Edit: Just a couple of other things I forgot in my original post. The AKG'S sound almost the same when wired which is not true of the UE9000 which are like two different headphones imo. This has been observed as a positive by many UE9000 users as the sound wired is described as more audiophile (ie to have a flatter frequency response) However, to me listening wired to Bluetooth headphones seems to invalidate the whole reason for buying them (in my case on the go convenience). I suppose if they were your only headphones it might be nice to listen wored through an amp at home for a different experience. The controls on the UE9000 are also superior to the AKG as they operate perfectly with my Android phone including double and triple click to forward and backward skip tracks. The AKG do not have this feature which means taking out your phone to skip track (a major oversight on AKG'S part if you ask me) I also miss the listen over feature of the UE9000 which pauses the music and opens the mics at the press of a button in order to hear a person speaking. WhY more headphone manufacturers don't include this evades me as I find it a right pita to remove the headphones or pause the music when someone talks to you.
Edited by lawrecedent - 3/7/15 at 11:25am
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