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post #301 of 15640

I think the X7 shouldn't lose track of delivering a better hi-fi experience than the X5, by that I mean, better UI, better SQ and all the basic functions you would expect from a DAP in 2014. (Hello playlist)

 

Now, if then they decide to add WiFi, please make sure it's going to be useful! Other wise it will be just a feature that no one will use and will damage the main intention of the product (which I like to think is a great, high quality, flexible, amazing sounding player).

 

Memories come from the Zen with WiFi DAP. You could log in to servers to chat and talk about new music... also connect to windows messenger and yahoo chat 0_o

 

I don't need my DAP to browser the Web, install apps, or OTA updates. Now I do expect my 700$ DAP to have power user features and if this would be added via apps, then WiFi could be justified. 

 

I'm not against adding WiFi, Bluetooth, or access to Google Play, but if is going to be included, please make sense of this features.

post #302 of 15640

iPod Classic + bigger drive, + FLAC support + SD card (not micro) + better DAC.

 

That'll do it.

 

EDIT: Actually make it an android device and give it wifi so I can use Spotify as well because why not?


Edited by endus - 5/22/14 at 8:07am
post #303 of 15640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenook View Post
 

In 2012 these were the shipments of television types worldwide.  All LCD/ pDP/OLED televisions are HDTV's but can handle SDTV with conversion.  The CRT televisions are mixed HD and SD.  So this being 2014 I don't see the standard televisions as "increasing" or "the standard" as you say.

 

The main manufactures are not creating Standard definition televisions at all, as there is no money in it anymore.  The unknown small manufacturers in those 3rd world may be making a few, but no, HD is the standard now and SD is the extreme minority.

 

LCD TV  87.3%
PDP TV 5.7%
OLED TV 0.0%
CRT TV 6.9%
RPTV 0.0%
Total 100%

 

A bit off topic already but you assume LCD TV must be for HD, which is hugely untrue. Most LCD TV sold in my country is for composite video input and analog over-the-air TV transmission. HD service is still fairly unpopular (there is only one HD provider in my country, and it is one of the better third world counties in the world). Yes, many of these LCD TV do have 1080 and 720 HDMI input, but HD is not about the TV, but about whether you can get the service or not, and how popular it is.

post #304 of 15640
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

A bit off topic already but you assume LCD TV must be for HD, which is hugely untrue. Most LCD TV sold in my country is for composite video input and analog over-the-air TV transmission. HD service is still fairly unpopular (there is only one HD provider in my country, and it is one of the better third world counties in the world). Yes, many of these LCD TV do have 1080 and 720 HDMI input, but HD is not about the TV, but about whether you can get the service or not, and how popular it is.

ah good points. I stand corrected sir.

post #305 of 15640
Thread Starter 

About X7, what I known is that we will bring some new thing into this market.

post #306 of 15640
I suggest X7 to have big internal storage. A lot of us have large music collection that grows by the hours..
post #307 of 15640

I think the X7 should use mSATA SSD drives, a 256GB drive can be had for around £90 these days, they small & both cheaper & probably faster than Micro SD cards.

 

The X7 could have somekind of slot for easy access to swap & add the drive.

 

I don't think anykind of DAP that out atm uses mSATA SSD's, so Fiio could be the first with the X7. :)

post #308 of 15640
Good to see a manufacturer trying to engage with their customers .
I wish more would for instance Sony who completely ignore their customers and then wonder why they are experiencing such big losses.
I would love to see a player with a good operating system , large memory and great sound.
And a dream combination would be one of the big streaming services teaming up with a company like Fiio to provide offline 24bit flac libraries.
post #309 of 15640
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixon View Post
 

I think the X7 should use mSATA SSD drives, a 256GB drive can be had for around £90 these days, they small & both cheaper & probably faster than Micro SD cards.

 

The X7 could have somekind of slot for easy access to swap & add the drive.

 

I don't think anykind of DAP that out atm uses mSATA SSD's, so Fiio could be the first with the X7. :)

 

+1

post #310 of 15640

And now ... back to the main topic shall we?

 

Having enjoyed the Fiio X5 for a good 4 months, my expectations for the Fiio X7 would be high. Really high. (and saying this not in jest).

 

On paper the spec sheet so far seems a blend of iBasso DX100, iRiver AK120 and Fiio X5.

Which is impressive by today's standards. The thing is the X7 won't be out till 2015, and by then would the X7 still be as spectacular as we hoped?

 

In my time with the DAPS, the kings of the hill (just sonically) is currently occupied by iRiver AK240 and Hifiman HM-901.

And both are dual dac daps. Being just someone who enjoys music, I can tell there's a clear improvement of dual dacs over single ones.

It's tough to put it in words but a dual dac kinda gives the "full picture" if implemented well..

 

Would the X7 be positioned to compete with the top of the line daps in the market (regardless of pricepoint) or just a flagship within Fiio's catalogue?

These are very serious points to consider as this will determine the success of the product in the market it was intended to be.

 

OS: Custom OS based on Android. 

> sure. who isn't using Android today? how well will it be implemented? Tried the Calyx M android UI? Lag & Drag. Bad experience.

   Fiio's X5 UI is perfect for Full touch and it is fast and smooth. Lets not break a good thing going here.

 

Weight: Less than 300g 

> good weight giving it a heft and premium feel.

 

Size: thickness will be almost the same as X5 , the other size is almost the same as 5 inch Android Phone. 

> Same thickness/size as X5 yes. Same as 5 inch Android, no! DAP must be handy, users will not feel secure fumbling about a big block just to get to their music. Frustration just builds every time get frustrated using a big block as dap. We want a high end reference grade music player, not a portable movie player. Case study, just see Calyx M player. Is the bigger size, bigger screen worth so many trade offs like battery and portability? If size must be like 5 inch phone, then would expect an impressive amp board design implementation (See ALO rxMK3B+) , DUAL Sabre ESS9018 DACs and BIG BIG battery (14 hrs normal lossless, 8 hrs high on res/DSD).

 

Screen: 3.5 inch ~ 4.3 inch Full Touch Screen. To be decided.

> Music comes first, Battery is as important. Screen size max at 4 inch to cover album art, UI design makes all the difference. 3.5 or 4.3 doesn't matter as long as UI well done. 
 
Key layout: Full touch control+ Bottoms+ Volume Knobs
> Full touch and Full physical controls ideal. Portable on the move, physical control without looking is a big plus on any DAP. See how Sony implemented on X1060/70 Walkman and iBasso DX50/90. The Sony X Walkman implementation would be suitable for a player like X7 design.

 

Output power: > 300mW/32 ohms, Power supply: +/- 6V ~ +/-11 V  . To be Decided.

> Good range, Enough power. Need focus on refinement. X5 SQ is great but lacks refinement. Which X7 need do much better at. For a flagship dap, SQ with power must come with great control too.

Playtime: 10 hours 

> Decent. Ideally would prefer 14 hours. When playing high res and DSD like formats, the playtime will fall back to 8 to 10hrs.

 

Battery: Build in Battery.

> Replaceable Battery please. for 2 very big reasons,
   1. sell more spare batteries (good for Fiio), spare juice to change when no charger point available (good for users)

   2. no need send back to Fiio for replacement (saves Fiio inventory cost of keeping batteries for replacement), saves cost to ship back for replacement (for users).
       Cost and logistics is more cost effective in the long term for Fiio.


Data transfer: USB 2.0 ( Micro USB), WiFi

> USB 3.0 please. Imagine if X7 has 128GB memory + 256GB (x 2 microSD cards) , how long to transfer all that music? On an AK240, it took the whole night. Yes, a whole night.

   If not for the incredible SQ, the AK240 would have packed and gone back the next day,
   WiFi , sure. for data transfer, maybe a few songs but not an album. Battery life will take a hit transferring wirelessly.
  


Blue Tooth: YES , supports , supports APTX

> so far have little use for Bluetooth on a DAP, is good to have but not much use. APTX would be a good addition for a 2015 dap, depending on market adoption of the standard.

DAC chip: ESS9018 , not ESS9018M2K, The ES9018 includes 8 channels DAC which means it is equal to 4 X ESS9018M2K

> Sure. As far is I take this part, the Fiio X7 will sound as good (or as bad) as the iBasso DX100 which is a coming 3 year old product, 4years if taking X7 only arrive in 2015.
   If ibasso maxed out the use of the ESS9018 DAC on the DX100, then in terms of SQ, the X7
 sure won't beat the hifiman HM-901 which has 2 x ESS9018 (total of 16 channels)

   and not the AK240 (or the upcoming AK120 MK2). My fear is Fiio's flagship may end up being as good as other's "mass adopted" dap. (the Calyx M is one such example).

 

Enclosure: Metal

> Depends on who you ask. Metal feels premium but vibrations are no good (Ask DX100 users). The DX100 sounds better once the vibration issue is overcome.
   Plastic if done well, is as durable as metal, cheaper to produce and handles vibration better.

 

Build in memory: To be decided.

> X7 is a high end player, means users are going to have lots of high res music in it. Do the right thing, add at least 128GB built in memory. iBasso DX100 already had 64GB in 2011.

   By 2015, am sure almost every X7 user will get 2 x 128GB micro SD cards.

 

Extra Memory: Micro SD slot X 2

> Yes. But is also extra cost to user if built-in memory is low. (No one complains iRiver only has 1 microSD card slot for AK240 since built in memory is 256GB)


Accessory : Leather Case X 1,  Micro USB cable X 1, 

> Good to have.

 

M.S.R.P:   $699 in U.S

> This is a high end DAP. It is targeted at a market that probably can afford a premium price if the product covers all the important points.

   If the X7 is built to be the best portable player with NO compromise (best in SQ , best in capacity , best in battery life , best in daily on the go usability),

   Fiio can raise the MSRP to USD $899 or even USD $999, and people will still buy them in truckloads.
   if iRiver has shown us, is that there are many ready buyers even for a USD $2500 music player if all the key selling points are there.
   Am confident Fiio can do a better product at half that price.

 

 

James, make it happen. We're counting on you. :)


Edited by kenz - 5/25/14 at 6:20am
post #311 of 15640
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenz View Post
 

DAC chip: ESS9018 , not ESS9018M2K, The ES9018 includes 8 channels DAC which means it is equal to 4 X ESS9018M2K

> Sure. As far is I take this part, the Fiio X7 will sound as good (or as bad) as the iBasso DX100 which is a coming 3 year old product, 4years if taking X7 only arrive in 2015.
   If ibasso maxed out the use of the ESS9018 DAC on the DX100, then in terms of SQ, the X7
 sure won't beat the hifiman HM-901 which has 2 x ESS9018 (total of 16 channels)

   and not the AK240 (or the upcoming AK120 MK2). My fear is Fiio's flagship may end up being as good as other's "mass adopted" dap. (the Calyx M is one such example).

 

At some point (*about right now), it really doesn't matter how much DAC / DAC's channels you are getting. There is really two ways to go, either reinvent how we are using DAC in the DAP, or make better use of the current offering.  Unless somehow ESS, TI, or Wolfson / Cirrus Logic have some technological breakthrough in DAC technology, I don't think we will see any significant advancement in how they are used in DAP any time soon. The main focus should be on making sure that, regardless of whatever DAC that is going to be used, it will be used properly, where it is not limited by software or hardware. That should be what X7 is about, IMO.

post #312 of 15640
Thread Starter 

there are one basiclly thing we will keep following , to provide something different to the market but never try to compete with other face by face. so our target is not to make another DX100 or HM901, we will like to

 

make something which includes our design logic, and what we are thingking about SQ, design.

 

So, you can hope you will have another option. and I believe we can do.

post #313 of 15640
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

At some point (*about right now), it really doesn't matter how much DAC / DAC's channels you are getting. There is really two ways to go, either reinvent how we are using DAC in the DAP, or make better use of the current offering.  Unless somehow ESS, TI, or Wolfson / Cirrus Logic have some technological breakthrough in DAC technology, I don't think we will see any significant advancement in how they are used in DAP any time soon. The main focus should be on making sure that, regardless of whatever DAC that is going to be used, it will be used properly, where it is not limited by software or hardware. That should be what X7 is about, IMO.

 

Agree with you, ClieOS.

 

Am a firm believer in the implementation is the key to delivering the best results.

A good example would be between the Fiio X5 and iBasso DX90, I personally preferred the X5, despite it being a single dac versus DX90 dual-dac mobile sabre.

Your earlier assessment on a 2 channel sabre dac even in dual architecture will not exceed a sabre desktop 8-channel dac was spot on.

 

Still a good dac or two (of the same kind that is) does helps though.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post
 

there are one basiclly thing we will keep following , to provide something different to the market but never try to compete with other face by face. so our target is not to make another DX100 or HM901, we will like to

 

make something which includes our design logic, and what we are thingking about SQ, design.

 

So, you can hope you will have another option. and I believe we can do.

 

Hi James,

 

Hope you're doing well.

 

And yes, i was actually driving towards that point. Fiio delivering something different and also delivering value (not cheap daps, but giving more than what one would expect).

So many music players today deliver on many areas but seem to fall short of being the special player that covers many wish-list or features or functions that make them perfect. 

With so many music players coming out this year, the X7 being a 2015 product, will probably have even more work to make it different and special.

 

For me, the Fiio X7 needs to deliver like how the X5 is a product that delivers in its market, at the right time,  with no equal. Even with the recent DX90 launch, the X5 is still the one for me.

It's different, it works great and yet not a touchscreen music player like so many out there. And it sounds exceptionally good for its price segment.

 

Personally I love trying out many different music players and would get them when they are available for audition or purchase.

 

Today, the only 2 music players I keep on hand are the iRiver AK240 and Fiio X5.

 

The Fiio X5 is special and it's not going anywhere.

 

And I believe the Fiio X7 will be the same when its time is here. :normal_smile :

post #314 of 15640

I'm looking forward to:beerchug:

post #315 of 15640
Personally i feel that in the realm of DAPs, once at the level of the x5/dx90, at least the way things are now, improvements in dac stage implementation are not significant sonically. I've spoken to some guys who have designed really totl earphones, so i think they know what theyre talking about, and they agree on this too. In fact, even comingf from an iphone, they find the dax stage gains to be rather limited.

What does shine through, is the amp stage gains. Personally i use the x5, and tbh i am not impressed with the hpo. However when paired with smth like the pico slim or rsa shadow, things are taken a few levels up. Thus i feel that the x7 should have an extremely capable amp section. It may not be extremely powerful, but the refinement must be there.

For me, while i cannot afford it, i feel that the ak240 is the most perfect dap, simply because it has an amp section that is good enough to make me want to listen to it unamped even with the best of amps, a fantastic ui, and yes the balanced amp does help with full size smily_headphones1.gif
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