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post #2881 of 17227

OK, but, just to be clear on this, we can all agree that the X7 should be made as heavy as possible, right?

 

I'm proposing that it should weigh at least 400g.

 

Any less than that and I'm going to feel short-changed.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see a swappable ballast bay implemented, so that customers can choose what amount of ballast they'd like to run their X7 with.

post #2882 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

OK, but, just to be clear on this, we can all agree that the X7 should be made as heavy as possible, right?

 

I'm proposing that it should weigh at least 400g.

 

Any less than that and I'm going to feel short-changed.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see a swappable ballast bay implemented, so that customers can choose what amount of ballast they'd like to run their X7 with.

Hey, I'm sure at least SOME audiophiles are bodybuilders. Think about THEM, and THEIR niche needs!

 

Also makes a good self-defense weapon, which is a good thing since your chances of being mugged in a dark alley skyrocket when people know your gadget costs 700+.

post #2883 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by 343 Grenadier View Post
 

Hey, I'm sure at least SOME audiophiles are bodybuilders. Think about THEM, and THEIR niche needs!

 

 

 

Yes, it's certainly a niche Fiio should take seriously, because this is a way to increase sales - most bodybuilders will want to have a weight simultaneously in each hand, so they're going to have to buy 2 X7s to fulfill this requirement.

 

Then they're going to need different weight combinations, so they'll have to buy 2 of each different-weight ballast module.

 

I'm thinking a further optional accessory could be a pocket-sized telescopic pole, which could be screwed-into each DAP, for doing bench presses with the DAPs, when required.

 

Adjustable/modular ballast weight is an extremely high-end feature, which you don't see on A&K DAPs, and which can much more effectively help customers 'Be The Ultimate'

 

James, I just made your company a few thousand dollars :wink_face: 


Edited by Mython - 3/13/15 at 5:36am
post #2884 of 17227

post #2885 of 17227

LOL - just trying to lighten the tone of the thread a bit.

post #2886 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 

 

Yes, it's certainly a niche Fiio should take seriously, because this is a way to increase sales - most bodybuilders will want to have a weight simultaneously in each hand, so they're going to have to buy 2 X7s to fulfill this requirement.

 

Then they're going to need different weight combinations, so they'll have to buy 2 of each different-weight ballast module.

 

I'm thinking a further optional accessory could be a pocket-sized telescopic pole, which could be screwed-into each DAP, for doing bench presses with the DAPs, when required.

 

Adjustable/modular ballast weight is an extremely high-end feature, which you don't see on A&K DAPs, and which can much more effectively help customers 'Be The Ultimate'

 

James, I just made your company a few thousand dollars " src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/wink_face.gif"> 

 



Don't forget that the pole can double as a short nightstick, so that you can give the muggers the 3000 dollars they wanted...RIGHT IN THE FACE! The 4000-dollar V2 model released six months later should also come with a blood scrubber. Can also pull double-duty as a sweat-cleaner after a workout.
Edited by 343 Grenadier - 3/13/15 at 6:34am
post #2887 of 17227

i guess that some of us just could not let this thread just dissappear because the lauch is still a few moths away. 

post #2888 of 17227

OLED mini screen is more important than large one. OLED also saves battery life a lot, not to mention it looks very nice. Its cheap  to add so if its available - should be there.

There is plenty of "purist" daps, buy hm901 or other ones ;-). The thread was created to discuss what PERFECT audiophile will have, and perfect is not a "limited" type.

Its 21st century, remote via bluetooth, small remote oled screens, wifi, tough build - those things have value. I can understand purist attitude (why not the altman tera player then, he?) but its not expensive and big deal to add extra functionality which seriously enrich experience. Market will show the money, if they made another "purist" device... well HM901s would make them not selling much. I heard also HIFI ET is coming out with new product soon ;-) that one is very very interesting too... another flagship.

 

FiiO was known not because of functionality but because of lower pricing in "medium" quality shelf - now they have opportunity to break the siling and even take the 1st place - if they do it right, as promised. The dual es9018 does matter, it enforces different architecture and better separation, it also give you this pleasure of having "no compromise" device. You may say its placebo ;-) but placebo is a proven fact that it works.

post #2889 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by skerry2006aj View Post

i guess that some of us just could not let this thread just dissappear because the lauch is still a few moths away. 


 



I meant what I said in my starting post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/713735/x7-the-flagship-dap-from-fiio-updated-on-15-12-2014/2880#post_11406633

FiiO is successful because they ask their customers what they want in great detail and take suggestions from them. But now we're yanking them in every direction and that's not going to help them make the right call, is it? We need to decide what course the X7 is going to take, and we need to do it now, before the X7's design is completely finalized. Last I checked, they were still working on it. There's still time.

If it's any reassurance, I find Piotrekfronc as about as disruptive to the direction and order of the chat as everyone else does, but I don't think his suggestions should be dismissed out of hand, either. They just shouldn't be used HERE. FiiO's goal is to take on high-end DAPs like the AK-240, not appeal to the Apple crowd with flashy looks or make clones of Samsung phones. The beauty of a DAP is experienced through the EARS, not the eyes. The Pure/X7 and Pro/X7+/X8 suggestion is a perfectly sound one.

Hell, maybe we can have it both ways: Earlier, I made a post here about modular addons that could fit any one of FiiO's DAPs. A sort of handheld docking bay. It'd have all the fancy features you could ask for. Perhaps we could have a reasonably compact and lightweight baseline design, with an attachable module loosely reminiscent of an external case. If some folks want a bulkier but more functional DAP, they'll get it this way.

Ultimately, though, I agree with Relic's most recent post. The X7 should use whatever configuration is the most power-efficient since a Sabre32 ES9018, especially when it's well-implemented, is already a very good DAC chip and a DAP equipped with it is more than capable of taking on other high-end models. Things such as an OLED screen and full Android with iPod Touch-like features are secondary considerations, especially since a DAP should remain simple to use. Capacity, battery life, and general sound quality, most likely with an emphasis on a flat, neutral sound sig you can color any way you want with an external amp and headphones of your choosing. That's what the X5 was, more or less. It's what this should be, too, because it WORKS. However FiiO handles "extra features, I think it should be reserved for something else, be it an enhanced X2/X4/X6/X8 line (Enhanced variants of the X1, X3, X5, and X7 with the same basic internals but extra features.), their X9 with them going all-out on everything in a manner similar to the feature nuts here, or via my module suggestion.
post #2890 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrekfronc View Post

OLED mini screen is more important than large one. OLED also saves battery life a lot, not to mention it looks very nice. Its cheap  to add so if its available - should be there.
There is plenty of "purist" daps, buy hm901 or other ones ;-). The thread was created to discuss what PERFECT audiophile will have, and perfect is not a "limited" type.
Its 21st century, remote via bluetooth, small remote oled screens, wifi, tough build - those things have value. I can understand purist attitude (why not the altman tera player then, he?) but its not expensive and big deal to add extra functionality which seriously enrich experience. Market will show the money, if they made another "purist" device... well HM901s would make them not selling much. I heard also HIFI ET is coming out with new product soon ;-) that one is very very interesting too... another flagship.

FiiO was known not because of functionality but because of lower pricing in "medium" quality shelf - now they have opportunity to break the siling and even take the 1st place - if they do it right, as promised. The dual es9018 does matter, it enforces different architecture and better separation, it also give you this pleasure of having "no compromise" device. You may say its placebo ;-) but placebo is a proven fact that it works.

Your dual DAC argument is tiring. What on earth do you need 16 channels of separation for? 8 channels are more than enough. We aren't talking about the mobile version. Many people using the 2 channel mobile version in the Pono and HA-2 are very, very happy with the sound. 8 channels is more than enough. 16 is stupid and would make the player huge. Please stop regurgitating the dual DACs.
post #2891 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrekfronc View Post

OLED mini screen is more important than large one. OLED also saves battery life a lot, not to mention it looks very nice. Its cheap  to add so if its available - should be there.



There is plenty of "purist" daps, buy hm901 or other ones ;-). The thread was created to discuss what PERFECT audiophile will have, and perfect is not a "limited" type.



Its 21st century, remote via bluetooth, small remote oled screens, wifi, tough build - those things have value. I can understand purist attitude (why not the altman tera player then, he?) but its not expensive and big deal to add extra functionality which seriously enrich experience. Market will show the money, if they made another "purist" device... well HM901s would make them not selling much. I heard also HIFI ET is coming out with new product soon ;-) that one is very very interesting too... another flagship.



 



FiiO was known not because of functionality but because of lower pricing in "medium" quality shelf - now they have opportunity to break the siling and even take the 1st place - if they do it right, as promised. The dual es9018 does matter, it enforces different architecture and better separation, it also give you this pleasure of having "no compromise" device. You may say its placebo ;-) but placebo is a proven fact that it works.

 



And this is why basically everyone here has jumped on you at one point or another, Pio. You are outright DISMISSING the concerns of anyone who doesn't share your view on the matter. You're asking for perfection on a tight budget, which is kind of a tall order. Some folks just want to listen to music with high levels of clarity on the go without taking out a loan to pay for it. They have no use for most of the fancy features you've talked about. I'm one of them. 700 for a "purist" DAP vs. 1000 for a comparable "pro" DAP is an easy choice for me. Purist. I have a gaming PC, a laptop, and a smartphone if I want to do other things. And before you tell me it's not that expensive, doing it chips away at the profit margins on the device for FiiO, meaning even small cost alterations MAY require them to jack up the price. The day FiiO loses its value on the dollar is the day FiiO stops being FiiO.

"You may say its placebo ;-) but placebo is a proven fact that it works."

But THIS is why nobody's taking you seriously. See: Northwest Audio Video Guy. The Benchmark DAC1 vs. the O2+ODAC in double-blind ABX testing. Or the infamous coat hanger vs. high-grade cabling test. If FiiO does a GOOD job with the ES9018, it will be better than a rush job with two 9018s like you're asking. It'll have longer battery life, and it'll be cheaper, and it'll still sound so good A&K will be sweating bullets. In fact there's a chance it may sound BETTER because if FiiO tries to implement two ES9018s and screws it up, it won't use them to their fullest. James already explained why he's not using a pair of 9018K2Ms instead using similar lines of reasoning. Like I said, save it for the X9. You're basically saying FiiO should lie to its customers to charge them more money, because that's what DELIBERATE use of the Placebo Effect is. I REALLY hope that you simply don't understand what the effect is, because that has to be the most immoral thing I've heard someone suggest on this entire site.
post #2892 of 17227

I can see the point ;-) But I think its not gonna be much more expensive. Ok, maybe another dac would cost extra, but James already closed design so no extra DACs are being added (thou, Id love to have them two in there...). I still remember HM901 with two dacs, and believe me, no placebo there - you must try it to understand, I sold my HM901 because of software and some other "less important" factors (it was pain to use). I believe that James with the current design will market upside down and break into high end HIFI market (they are not there yet). Adding bluetooth module or mini screen is not expensive, see how much sansa clip costs, doing it they do something that doesnt exists. Notice that once added bluetooth you can use accessories you would never think about, like remotes, gamepads or.. your smartphone to control it etc. Everything - as long it does not affect SQ.

 

Personally... I like most PCM1704UK but its hard to get it done right without huge battery...

post #2893 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrekfronc View Post
 

I can see the point ;-) But I think its not gonna be much more expensive. Ok, maybe another dac would cost extra, but James already closed design so no extra DACs are being added (thou, Id love to have them two in there...). I still remember HM901 with two dacs, and believe me, no placebo there - you must try it to understand, I sold my HM901 because of software and some other "less important" factors (it was pain to use). I believe that James with the current design will market upside down and break into high end HIFI market (they are not there yet). Adding bluetooth module or mini screen is not expensive, see how much sansa clip costs, doing it they do something that doesnt exists. Notice that once added bluetooth you can use accessories you would never think about, like remotes, gamepads or.. your smartphone to control it etc. Everything - as long it does not affect SQ.

 

Personally... I like most PCM1704UK but its hard to get it done right without huge battery...

why would you insist on useless features?

 

the main aspects, are main aspects. what you are trying to do is haggle. if you come from hifiman players, you are trying to exaggerate what you want, in the hope that it can be accomplished even by a little. 

 

Had you tried to listen to a fiio x5? it is better than hifiman players, it is far more usable, SQ wise it is pretty close. in fact the only two things that i really know to beat x5 are ak240 and hugo. in rest, everything was about similar levels... please, stop trying, fiio has not done a bad job yet, i mean both x5, x3 and x1 are durable, have very good SQ, very good screens, very good capacity, battery, ui, and etc. try an x5 in a shopl, you will feel like holding a solid thing compared to hifiman players.

 

i liked hifiman designs, but the problems with durability, the plastics, the somewhat washed screens, and other problems made fiio x5 much better.

 

also ibasso dx90 is better than hifiman on these terms. 

 

 

 

and about dual DAC, stop it, it is not necesary, it cannot improove SQ, and will never do it. i can guarantee that a single DAC, as it is in hugo beats every dual or how many dacs you can pick out there. 

post #2894 of 17227
Why do guys insist on arguing with him? Fiio will make what they feel is best. Seems like Piotrek is in the minority and fiio is pretty much set on design anyway. Plus, he is just starting what he'd like, it's fairly harmless wishes.
post #2895 of 17227
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior1975 View Post

Why do guys insist on arguing with him?

 

 

 

This has been posted before, but it seems appropriate to post it again :wink::

 

 

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