or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › FiiO X7 | DXD | DSD | 384K/64B | ESS9018+ Android | WiFi | Bluetooth | 4 AMP modules | Balanced Out |
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

FiiO X7 | DXD | DSD | 384K/64B | ESS9018+ Android | WiFi | Bluetooth | 4 AMP modules | Balanced Out | - Page 11

post #151 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post
 

 

for X7, since it is based on Android OS, so you may get rockbox app, and also foorbar2000 in X7. 

There's a Foobar 2000 app for Android... like seriously that would be heavenly! 

post #152 of 15660
I want OLED screen and SD card support and DSD native playback. Thank you,James.
post #153 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicday View Post

I want OLED screen and SD card support and DSD native playback. Thank you,James.

 

Dual (Full Size) SD Cards would be nice.

 

I was thinking about the mSATA thing, it would be awesome but maybe for advanced users, plus I don't know what's the future of the mSATA specification, while the SD Cards are here to stay for a while.

post #154 of 15660
I can accept most of the options James has included in the current spec sheet with the following exceptions:
 
- if sticking with Android, pare it down to bare bones required for hi-res audio playback. This is supposed to be a high-end DAP, not a smartphone
 
    * I do like the idea of being able to use Foobar 2000 as a player though
 
- NO wifi, NO bluetooth. This adds no value whatsoever (even with aptX) & takes up valuable real estate that could be used for other better components/options
 
    * mSATA sounds like it would be a much better use of real estate
post #155 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbr1971 View Post
 
I can accept most of the options James has included in the current spec sheet with the following exceptions:
 
- if sticking with Android, pare it down to bare bones required for hi-res audio playback. This is supposed to be a high-end DAP, not a smartphone
 
    * I do like the idea of being able to use Foobar 2000 as a player though
 
- NO wifi, NO bluetooth. This adds no value whatsoever (even with aptX) & takes up valuable real estate that could be used for other better components/options
 
    * mSATA sounds like it would be a much better use of real estate

 

I agree 100%

I want a DAP, not a wifi connected device that plays music.

post #156 of 15660

For me the ultimate DAP is all about sound. So I would suggest keeping the same X5 form factor and UI for simplicity like iBasso did with the DX50/DX90.  I would then perfect the X5 sound by making the SQ tweaks listed below. The only change I would make to the X5 form factor that could improve its usability would be to make the battery DX90 style user replaceable as I suggested earlier in this thread.

 

If you go to the touch screen with android, then obviously the AK240 and Calyx M will be the UIs you will be compared against. Personally, I feel the Calyx is too big making the touch screen a negative while the AK240 is the right size. But don't forget the ZX1 style buttons to provide pocket functionality or the touch screen will be considered a total fail. The only true value I can see for going to a touch screen for me is to provide a touch screen keyboard with the iPhone styled indexed search functionality with a dynamic suggestion window listing selectable songs, artists, etc. that match the entry updated for each letter typed. That would be very convenient.

 

Typical DAP Failings:

  1. Volume Performance: A high end desktop typically scales to the correct sound stage sizing quickly as the volume goes up. It then retains the same correct sound stage while increasing the fullness and richness of the sound as it continues up never getting harsh. The correct soundstage for me is when the singer sounds full sized and you are in the same room or on stage with the singer and their full sized band. However, a DAP typically has more of a linear volume scale changing the sound stage sizing from nosebleed seats or micro sized performers to “in their mouth” and muffled, incoherent and blaring. Both my DX90 and X5 sound harsh when turned up too loud. Unfortunately, on both I have to turn the volume up louder than comfortable for me to get the proper sound stage for my tastes, with the X5 being much better. I would love to have a DAP that maintains the correct sound stage throughout the volume range like a high end rig even at lower volumes.
  2. Sizing: The biggest fail with most DAPs is that the sound stage participants are not sized correctly with key items sounding small or even in a different room down the hall with the door shut. Everything should be sized to the same scale as everything else so that they all sound like they are performing together on the same stage and there are no chipmunks in the band. My DX90 and X5 do this better than anything else I have heard, but could be better. The DX90 places the stage too far back and wide with the X5 being a little too small of a sound stage but with better intimacy. I would love to see the X5 just a little wider and more 3D while maintaining its excellent black background.
  3. Coherency: I have yet to meet a DAP that maintains coherency in complex music or complex sections of songs with lots of simultaneous and loud instruments. The fundamentals just seem to break down, especially at higher volumes, with the sound stage losing focus and the sound blaring. Both the X5 and DX90 fail miserably when an overly complex track comes up on the play list or even in complex sections of a song.
  4. Rich 3D Texturing: The X5 is the best DAP I have heard in terms of texturing providing dispersed and layered texturing that I can not only hear, but feel into my soul. However, while I can only hear and not feel the texturing with the DX90 – it has a more 3d layering that provides additional information when the performers are close together. I can hear one performer standing in front of another with the DX90.  I would love to see more 3D layering of texture in the X5 to perfect it without losing the very black background. This could probably be done with a little wider, yet intimate soundstage. Wider should not put band members in other rooms, just add a few feet of spacing between each on the same stage.
  5. Dynamics: I have yet to meet a DAP that doesn’t clip or distort when playing a dynamically demanding track probably due to the lack of power reserves or the optimization of battery life. The X5 comes close providing very full bass notes and retains separate resonance between instruments and provides more natural sounding elements even when it loses focus in complex music sections. But it is not perfect, especially at higher volumes where it becomes blairing. The DX90 does a lot more clipping or distorting if I turn it up to get the proper sizing. A DAP should provide a full resonant sounding natural bass notes rather than a slapping sound chopped with distortion - even when turned up to higher volumes. The bass notes should be separate for each instrument vs. clumped together as a single representative note. With better power reserves and a full 3D sound stage, the coherency should not be lost during complex sections of songs.
  6. Effortlessness: Effortlessness is how I describe the high end desktops that I have listened to that have ALL the above characteristics perfected with nothing left out. I would love a DAP that I could say the same thing about. This means that the sound quality is natural - transporting you into the music with nothing artificial. The sound is full, not thin – with no clipping or distortion even during complex sections of songs. Everything sounds full sized and intimate even at low volumes and only gets richer as the volume is increased, never blaring.
  7. TOTL Cans: IMO, the DX90 and the X5 already drive the LCD2 and HD800 very well providing better sound than anything else plugged into them. I think it is a mistake to compare their sound to desktop possibilities vs. any other HPs plugged into the DAP as DAPs will always have the size disadvantage to be portable. However, if the above DAP failings are cured, this can only increase the SQ for using TOTL Cans. For all that disagree, there is always the LO to add an amp to take it to the next level – but for me, that is when I move to my desktop for optimal sound making the DAP irrelevant.

 

If all the above DAP failings are cured with the X7 while retaining a usable form factor like the X5, you will have a very anxious buyer in me and I suspect most everyone else. The above list will be my test for the new player when it is available for audition.

 

I would be very interested to hear everyone else's thoughts on my list of the typical DAP failings so please don't be shy. It is very obvious that the list is biased by my signature preference so it should be tempered by group thought.

post #157 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by reihead View Post
 

 

I agree 100%

I want a DAP, not a wifi connected device that plays music.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbr1971 View Post
 
I can accept most of the options James has included in the current spec sheet with the following exceptions:
 
- if sticking with Android, pare it down to bare bones required for hi-res audio playback. This is supposed to be a high-end DAP, not a smartphone
 
    * I do like the idea of being able to use Foobar 2000 as a player though
 
- NO wifi, NO bluetooth. This adds no value whatsoever (even with aptX) & takes up valuable real estate that could be used for other better components/options
 
    * mSATA sounds like it would be a much better use of real estate

I agree, there aren't to many of us buying a $700 dap to use with our Wireless Headphones or amp/dacs 

post #158 of 15660
Then no android and no touchscreen😎...just pure high end parts and awesome battery life as well😁
post #159 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochill View Post

Then no android and no touchscreen😎...just pure high end parts and awesome battery life as well😁

Well I'd like to see that my self, but Fiio is marketing this Flag Ship to a much wider audiance than just us tech crazy audiophiles, so it's up to them to find the happy middle ground that will readh the biggest market of people 

post #160 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post

 

If you go to the touch screen with android, then obviously the AK240 and Calyx M will be the UIs you will be compared against. Personally, I feel the Calyx is too big making the touch screen a negative while the AK240 is the right size. But don't forget the ZX1 style buttons to provide pocket functionality or the touch screen will be considered a total fail. The only true value I can see for going to a touch screen for me is to provide a touch screen keyboard with the iPhone styled indexed search functionality with a dynamic suggestion window listing selectable songs, artists, etc. that match the entry updated for each letter typed. That would be very convenient.

 

 

Completely agree on the above regarding a touch screen.  It doesn't have to be overly big, and I agree that the Calyx M is on the large side.  As long as there is enough space for a keyboard for search.  And definitely physical buttons and user replaceable battery.

 

I agree that bluetooth is not a necessity, but WiFi may be a nice to have as streaming music services become more popular and widely available.

post #161 of 15660

Note: custom order of small touch screen (or any LCD / LED screen, even no touch support for the matter) will cost a lot of money. So whatever screen FiiO decided to use must not be custom order, meaning it has to be a readily available screen that already been widely used by the smartphone industry. Thus there is a limitation of how small or big it can be - unless you guy think it is okay to pay for AK240's price tag for the X7.

post #162 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

Note: custom order of small touch screen (or any LCD / LED screen, even no touch support for the matter) will cost a lot of money. So whatever screen FiiO decided to use must not be custom order, meaning it has to be a readily available screen that already been widely used by the smartphone industry. Thus there is a limitation of how small or big it can be - unless you guy think it is okay to pay for AK240's price tag for the X7.

 


Edited by zachchen1996 - 5/8/14 at 9:00pm
post #163 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

Note: custom order of small touch screen (or any LCD / LED screen, even no touch support for the matter) will cost a lot of money. So whatever screen FiiO decided to use must not be custom order, meaning it has to be a readily available screen that already been widely used by the smartphone industry. Thus there is a limitation of how small or big it can be - unless you guy think it is okay to pay for AK240's price tag for the X7.


There is no direct correlation between screen size and price. The Calyx M is evidence of this.

post #164 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post
 


There is no direct correlation between screen size and price. The Calyx M is evidence of this.

 

Yes they are, when you are small manufacturer trying to source your parts on a sensible cost so you can sell your products with a sensible price. I talked to James a few times on this topic over IM. One of the reason why X3 doesn't have a great screen is because small good quality LCD must be custom ordered, and that will push the price much higher than what it is now. Another example is the X5's screen, which is really good in quality but odd in size - that because FiiO has manged to source a big batch of leftover BlackBerry's screen on the cheap, which BlackBerry has paid big money for but decided not to use as they are switching to big touch screen. That's why X5 screen size is a bit odd as it is original intended for Blackberry. If it is not the case, FiiO could have never afforded those screen.

 

If you look at Calyx M, it really isn't much beyond a smartphone without the phone, but has a good DAC (in a way, X7 is going to be the same, but also include a power amp section). It uses a normal screen size just like those you will find on a smartphone, and I bet one of the big reason is because screen of that size is used for the smartphone industry as well, so it is also an readily available part that doesn't required custom order. Remember, it is not about how big or small it is, but whether you need to custom order it or not.


Edited by ClieOS - 5/8/14 at 9:34pm
post #165 of 15660
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Yes they are, when you are small manufacturer trying to source your parts on a sensible cost so you can sell your products with a sensible price. I talked to James a few times on this topic over IM. One of the reason why X3 doesn't have a great screen is because small good quality LCD must be custom ordered, and that will push the price much higher than what it is now. Another example is the X5's screen, which is really good in quality but odd in size - that because FiiO has manged to source a big batch of leftover BlackBerry's screen on the cheap, which BlackBerry has paid big money for but decided not to use as they are switching to big touch screen. That's why X5 screen size is a bit odd as it is original intended for Blackberry. If it is not the case, FiiO could have never afforded those screen.

 

If you look at Calyx M, it really isn't much beyond a smartphone without the phone, but has a good DAC (in a way, X7 is going to be the same, but also include a power amp section). It uses a normal screen size just like those you will find on a smartphone, and I bet one of the big reason is because screen of that size is used for the smartphone industry as well, so it is also an readily available part that doesn't required custom order. Remember, it is not about how big or small it is, but whether you need to custom order it or not.


It sounded as if you were suggesting that a larger screen size as found on the 240 means a higher price, but I understand what you're saying now - custom screens are way too expensive though larger ones widely used by smartphones are viable options.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › FiiO X7 | DXD | DSD | 384K/64B | ESS9018+ Android | WiFi | Bluetooth | 4 AMP modules | Balanced Out |