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Oppo PM-1 Planar Magnetic Headphone Impressions Thread - Page 159

post #2371 of 3442

Looks like Oppo made the same error Hifiman did: designing the form-factor of the earpads only for the (more consistently-sized/shaped, small-medium size) East-Asian ear dimensions.

 

Hifiman's already promised earpads with much larger openings for larger-eared ethnicities, will Oppo do the same?!


Edited by jerg - 6/7/14 at 5:47pm
post #2372 of 3442
I have a smallish head and ears, was very comfortable to me. My weak neck / all day computer screen steering job also appreciates the light weight of pm1.

As such, i also wouldn't call it badly engineered product, just doesn't fit 100% of the population.
post #2373 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Looks like Oppo made the same error Hifiman did: designing the form-factor of the earpads only for the (more consistently-sized/shaped, small-medium size) East-Asian ear dimensions.

 

Hifiman's already promised earpads with much larger openings for larger-eared ethnicities, will Oppo do the same?!

 

At least the Oppo earpads don't have a round ear opening, like all of the Hifiman's, ears are longer than they are wide, why not oval or rectangular to fit the shape of ears?

 

I think the Alpha Dog pads got it right, rectangular shaped like the PM-1 pads, but also wide enough for fairly large ears to fit inside.....plus they can be rotated to have a more precise fit for perfect seal!


Edited by cute - 6/7/14 at 6:15pm
post #2374 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Looks like Oppo made the same error Hifiman did: designing the form-factor of the earpads only for the (more consistently-sized/shaped, small-medium size) East-Asian ear dimensions.

 

Hifiman's already promised earpads with much larger openings for larger-eared ethnicities, will Oppo do the same?!

 

Yee gads, does everything need to look like a HD800 or HE-560 ( your main source of attention) with big round enclosures?    Sometimes the comments I see on here lead one to think you have these ears . . .

 


Edited by HiFiAudio - 6/8/14 at 9:33am
post #2375 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

At least the Oppo earpads don't have a round ear opening, like all of the Hifiman's, ears are longer than they are wide, why not oval or rectangular to fit the shape of ears?

I don't have big ears, pretty normal size, but no issues with Oppo ear pad shape/size . . . .they fit reasonable well, compared to my other "round opening" headphones. :)

post #2376 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiAudio View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Looks like Oppo made the same error Hifiman did: designing the form-factor of the earpads only for the (more consistently-sized/shaped, small-medium size) East-Asian ear dimensions.

 

Hifiman's already promised earpads with much larger openings for larger-eared ethnicities, will Oppo do the same?!

 

Yee gads, does everything need to look like a HD800 or HE-560 ( you main source of attention) with big round enclosures?    Sometimes the comments I see on here lead one to think you have these ears . . .

 

 

I think those are actual headphones, built in model!

post #2377 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post
 

 

At least the Oppo earpads don't have a round ear opening, like all of the Hifiman's, ears are longer than they are wide, why not oval or rectangular to fit the shape of ears?

 

I think the Alpha Dog pads got it right, rectangular shaped like the PM-1 pads, but also wide enough for fairly large ears to fit inside.....plus they can be rotated to have a more precise fit for perfect seal!

I read or heard somewhere that Hifiman earpads are circular in the inner opening because it is the proper shape for driver acoustics (the diaphragm tracings span the entire surface area of the circular driver assembly, unlike Audeze drivers or Oppo drivers or MrSpeakers' T50RP drivers), having a rectangular or oval opening may have unwanted acoustic effects. I'm no acoustics engineer so I can't validate that, but that is the word on the streets.

post #2378 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Looks like Oppo made the same error Hifiman did: designing the form-factor of the earpads only for the (more consistently-sized/shaped, small-medium size) East-Asian ear dimensions.

 

No. A majority of the OPPO Digital, Inc employees are Caucasian, and we did not experience any discomfort in out internal testing of the PM-1 earpad designs. Similarly, most of our Beta Testers and reviewers are Caucasian.

 

Quote:

Hifiman's already promised earpads with much larger openings for larger-eared ethnicities, will Oppo do the same?! 

 

It is not a simply matter of changing the diameter of the earpads. Any changes to the earpads have dramatic impact on the sound quality. A lot of the tuning of the PM-1 and the PM-2 headphones are in the pad design, and not with the actual driver itself. With that said, we are in discussions with internal and external engineers to determine what can be done to facilitate the need for larger earpads for customers who have larger ears. You can't just make the opening bigger and call it a day. You need to make further modifications, such as changing the dampening material, making the holes larger/smaller, reducing the number of holes and so forth to ensure that the sonic performance of a larger opening earpad is identical to the stock earpad. For this reason we can't comment on the likeliness of a new earpad design, but it is definitely feedback that we have received and feedback which we are taking seriously. We just can't guarantee a change in the earpad design, however.

 

EDIT: for the spelling. Seriously should not be answering forums while still in a food coma.


Edited by HasturTheYellow - 6/7/14 at 7:32pm
post #2379 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by HasturTheYellow View Post
 

 

It is not a simply matter of changing the diameter of the earpads. Any changes to the earpads have dramatic impact on the sound quality. A lot of the tuning of the PM-1 and the PM-2 headphones are in the pad design, and not with the actual driver itself. With that said, we are in discussions with internal and external engineers to determine what can be done to facilitate the need for larger earpads for customers who have larger ears. You can't just make the opening bigger and call it a day. You need to make further modifications, such as changing the dampening material, making the holes larger/smaller, reducing the number of holes, so forth to ensure that the sonic performance of a larger earpad is identical to the stock earpad. For this reason we can't comment on the likeliness of a new earpad design, but it is definitely feedback that we have received and feedback which we are taking seriously. We just can't guarantee a change in the earpad design, however.

Thanks for the clarification on the demographics of the ear modeling. Perhaps the audiophile community is just genetically too diverse then.

 

And yes, I know all about the woes of pad-fi. It's really the equivalent of speaker enclosures in terms of its importance in driver acoustics, but with the added criterion for ergonomics.

post #2380 of 3442
Appreciate your comments HasturTheYellow...
post #2381 of 3442

i felt the PM-1 was uncomfortable until i realized i could swivel the ear cups.  adjusting the angle made a huge difference for me.  i found the velours to be more comfortable than the leathers, placing more clamping force around the ears, but preferred the sonics of the leathers. 

 

i have three different pads for my modded T50RP.  each one changes the sound considerably.  i think from a commercial perspective, having different pads to roll to suit the end users tastes isn't a terrible idea, but may "confuse" the end sonic statement as intended by the engineers. 

post #2382 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

Thanks for the clarification on the demographics of the ear modeling. Perhaps the audiophile community is just genetically too diverse then.

 

This is one of the reasons why we always do an external beta. What you think is proper use applications is not always how the consumer will interpret it. This is also why our Betas are done under NDA because out designs are very plastic/fluid. We take all comments very seriously and do our best to interpret these comments into the final product.

 

Quote:
 And yes, I know all about the woes of pad-fi. It's really the equivalent of speaker enclosures in terms of its importance in driver acoustics, but with the added criterion for ergonomics.

 

This is our first foray into headphones, so we have learned a lot in the end. Speaking personally, I always felt that things like the earpads meant nothing to the overall sonic performance. But the more I interacted with the engineers, and the more time I spent with engineering samples, the more I found out just how wrong I was. And that is ultimately the key to success: identifying misconceptions, learning from errors, and working on viable solutions.

 

Even if we are a little slow to respond (ex. some of you are still waiting for replacement earpads to be purchasable) it does not mean that we are deaf to your concerns. We are just being cautious to ensure that any additional changes that we pursue are beneficial and appreciable, and not something that is done as a reactionary measure.

post #2383 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by HasturTheYellow View Post
 

 

This is one of the reasons why we always do an external beta. What you think is proper use applications is not always how the consumer will interpret it. This is also why our Betas are done under NDA because out designs are very plastic/fluid. We take all comments very seriously and do our best to interpret these comments into the final product.

 

 

This is our first foray into headphones, so we have learned a lot in the end. Speaking personally, I always felt that things like the earpads meant nothing to the overall sonic performance. But the more I interacted with the engineers, and the more time I spent with engineering samples, the more I found out just how wrong I was. And that is ultimately the key to success: identifying misconceptions, learning from errors, and working on viable solutions.

 

Even if we are a little slow to respond (ex. some of you are still waiting for replacement earpads to be purchasable) it does not mean that we are deaf to your concerns. We are just being cautious to ensure that any additional changes that we pursue are beneficial and appreciable, and not something that is done as a reactionary measure.

You know what, I respect that quite a bit.

post #2384 of 3442

Thank you for the understanding. It is our hope that we can address as many concerns, recommendations and other feedback that the Head-Fi community has offered us.There will always bet things which we just can't do, but there are some exciting things we are already working on in the "Skunk Works" which I hope I can start to discuss more openly in the coming weeks and months to come.

post #2385 of 3442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markj View Post


Not personal but very public. OPPO could have had the decency to post product dimension on their page, especially for headphones not available for demo and and being in over $1K luxury market. Bad engineering, bad ergonomics.

Sorry but I disagree with you. It is very personal. It is based on your personal taste and preferences. In my case I would classified my head as medium size (I ware 7 1/4" hats) and medium size ears and to me the Oppo are very comfortable. 

I don't understand what are your basis to claim "bad engineering and ergonomics". IMO the engineering and build quality are fist class compared to others at the same or even higher price point. You might not like them but that doesn't mean they have bad engineering or ergonomics.

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