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Oppo PM-1 Planar Magnetic Headphone Impressions Thread - Page 134

post #1996 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by HasturTheYellow View Post

I know I am late the party, but I want to make a post here while it is still somewhat on topic with the discussions that occurred over the course of the past weekend. The quick, TL:DR version of the difference in the pricing of the PM-1, HA-1 and all of our other products in Europe are due to the different distribution methods that OPPO Digital, Inc and our International partners employ. We are single tier (direct to the customer) while they are multi-tier (multiple distribution networks to the retailer).
Full Distribution And Price Statement (Click to show)
Here at OPPO Digital, Inc., in addition to designing and developing the products, we sell directly to North American customers and provide support and warranty services from our Mountain View office. Our product pricing is based on this direct sales model which eliminates the cost of multi-tier distribution and retail channels. This is the reason that we can offer these excellent products at the prices that we charge in the US. For in-warranty services, we normally provide the customer with a pre-paid shipping label to send the product to our Mountain View office, and we pay for the cost for shipping the serviced product back to the customer as well. This main-in service arrangement helps reducing the cost of hiring third-party service companies, and enables us to sell products at low prices.

For areas outside of the North America, we rely on international distributors such as oppo-bluray.co.uk to sell the products locally and to provide local support. The distributor may in turn rely on a network of local retailers to sell and service the products. The international distributors get the products at a price somewhat lower than the US retail price, but due to our operation efficiency in the US, the distribution price is not as low as traditional consumer electronics brands may offer to their distributors. We announce our MSRP, but do not and cannot decide how much a distributor or reseller may charge for their sales. Overseas retail prices often include the cost of tiered distribution and retail, which is normally higher than our North American direct-sale cost. The prices may also factor in the local warranty and support costs.

We hear what our European and Australian customers are saying about the prices, and we are definitely in communication with our international distributors about this. I am not here to defend the international distributors on their pricing, but just want to explain that our North American customers are really enjoying the benefit of our direct sales/service business model.

Regarding shipping directly to overseas customers, the cost and logistics of warranty service are huge concerns for us. We used to do that and when a customer encountered a defective unit, we would reimburse the customer the cost of shipping the defective unit to our Mountain View office. With the high international shipping cost, the cost of warranty service pretty much wiped out the little profit we earned from all direct international sales. As a business we found this unsustainable. Beyond that, the customers were often very frustrated due to the long service time caused by custom clearance delays, and they might be charged custom duty/tax again when the repaired products were returned to them. We still ship to customers where there is no local sales/support using our Offline Order Form, but we have to be upfront with the customer about the potential cost and hassle of warranty services.

With that said, this does not fix the difference in pricing, it only helps you understand why it exists. Which is why I pointed out yesterday, will point out again today, and will also reference the resent post by noxa: We will allow for the International sale and shipment of PM-1 headphones. At the moment we are working on the language for an updated Offline Order Form, and when it goes live, we will be able to process PM-1 orders for International shipping. There will be caveats, but I will be more than happy to discuss these through PM or you can discuss this further by contacting OPPO directly.

For now, let's return back to PM-1 impressions.

This is far more than I expect from most companies and definitely a big win for Oppo Digital bending over backwards for US and EU customers to satisfy distribution. It really does seem like the customer is priority for them.

Now, although I purchased a pair of LCD-XC because of my impatience, I will absolutely be a proud owner of the PM-1 in the near future.... 100%. Should go well with my incoming HA-1 (hurry up customs). It looks to me that if people are patient enough this may all be sorted (with mentioned caveats). I, on the other hand, am filled with impatience, full of it, and I pay for it.
post #1997 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q Mass View Post
 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Hastur.

 

The comments re' the PM1's handling of poor recordings are encouraging.

Can anyone comment on how the PM1's cope with low rez/lossy content ( as opposed to old recordings )?

 

Also, has anyone got an opinion re' how the PM1 sound while being used with any amps with bass boost technology? ( I'm not suggesting that they need this, just curious as I'm a borderline basshead myself ).

 

If it turns out that the PM2 is too much for my wallet, I'm going to try an HD650, even though I've never heard them, and they look kinda plastic-y!

 

I think I was drawn to planar technology by the T50RP thread, as it seemed to offer better than average sound at an affordable price.

It's been nice to read about  the emergence of all these high end planars in the last few years, but what's been missing is a modern iteration of an AFFORDABLE planar.

 

If those of us outside the US can buy the PM2 at the $ price I believe it would come close to meeting many audiophiles definition of affordable.

 

I use MP3 V0 encodings, GASP. I have determined that I can not ABX reliably from FLAC and the differences are so minute that it's not worth the hard drive space to me. So the PM-1 certainly handle lossy files fine.

post #1998 of 3028

From http://www.audioholics.com/headphone-reviews/oppo-pm-1/measurements:

 

Quote:

 

pm-1 frequency response

Oppo PM-1 Frequency Response

 

I constructed a very primitive ear by usage of a styrofoam cup with the microphone placed at the opposite end.  As you can see from the graph, these headphones are extremely linear.  In fact this is the best measurement I’ve ever pulled on a headphone system and explains why these headphones sound so tonally neutral and accurate.

 

 

Pretty flat up to 20K. Now discuss, please.

 

:popcorn::popcorn:

post #1999 of 3028

^Thanks for pointing that out.  I guess the new review linked was incomplete when I provided the above link in earlier post

recently added

Oppo PM-1 Measurements & Analysis

By Gene DellaSalaMay 12, 2014
post #2000 of 3028
^ Wait, did you say flat up to 20k? very_evil_smiley.gif
post #2001 of 3028

Oppo PM-1 Planar Magnetic headphones review (Part 4) - Digital Audio Review - John H Darko - 5/13/2014

 

Lots of headphone comparisons finally.


Edited by HiFiAudio - 5/12/14 at 7:08pm
post #2002 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiAudio View Post
 

Oppo PM-1 Planar Magnetic headphones review (Part 4) - Digital Audio Review - John H Darko - 5/13/2014

 

Lots of headphone comparisons finally.

 

I'm surprised that he finds himself listening loudly. I am a rather loud listener and the PM-1 seem to have cured me of that. Even at low volumes they demand nothing additional to sound good. 

post #2003 of 3028

For all those chomping at the bit for the PM-1 but were hesitant because of the International price discrepancy, we have updated our Offline Order Form to include the PM-1 and HA-1 products. This form will allow you to purchase any of our products direct and have them shipped internationally.

 

As I stated earlier this afternoon, there is a caveat with International orders, and that is with the Limited Warranty that normally protects our products from future defects. If you have a PM-1, HA-1 or other OPPO product shipped to an International destination, or these OPPO products are brought to an International destination, it will be the customer's responsibility to pay for the shipping of the OPPO product to and from our United States office. We will still cover the parts and labor itself as part of the Limited Warranty conditions, but we are not responsible for the freight. This is different from a North American purchase where we cover the freight to and from the customer as part of the Limited Warranty.

post #2004 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by HasturTheYellow View Post

For all those chomping at the bit for the PM-1 but were hesitant because of the International price discrepancy, we have updated our Offline Order Form to include the PM-1 and HA-1 products. This form will allow you to purchase any of our products direct and have them shipped internationally.

As I stated earlier this afternoon, there is a caveat with International orders, and that is with the Limited Warranty that normally protects our products from future defects. If you have a PM-1, HA-1 or other OPPO product shipped to an International destination, or these OPPO products are brought to an International destination, it will be the customer's responsibility to pay for the shipping of the OPPO product to and from our United States office. We will still cover the parts and labor itself as part of the Limited Warranty conditions, but we are not responsible for the freight. This is different from a North American purchase where we cover the freight to and from the customer as part of the Limited Warranty.
Quote:
Product Returns:
OPPO offers a 30-day money back guarantee. We will provide you with full refund of the product's purchase price if you are not satisfied with the OPPO product(s) you purchased directly from us. Please note that shipping costs are non-refundable. Returns must be complete and in like-new condition. Returns of the Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark Disc or the AIX Records Audio Calibration Disc/HD Music Sampler must be unopened and still in its plastic wrap. Applicable to purchases made from this online store only; if purchasing from a reseller, their return policy applies.

Does Oppo pay for return shipping on orders that are shipped outside of North America?
The description is kind of vague on that.
There is also no option for the balanced cable purchase.
Edited by Smarty-pants - 5/12/14 at 7:49pm
post #2005 of 3028

Additional options can be written on the form itself or communicated through E-Mail/Phone when finalizing the Offline Order Form. This has always been the case.

 

Us paying the return shipping for domestic shipments in the case of refunds has always been something we offered as a thank you for ordering direct. We do not offer this for International shipments due to the lack of being able to prepare return shipping labels, or the shipping cost associated to returning the product being cost prohibitive. Again, ordering Internationally is a risk and privilege, not a right.

post #2006 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post
 

From http://www.audioholics.com/headphone-reviews/oppo-pm-1/measurements:

 

 

Pretty flat up to 20K. Now discuss, please.

 

:popcorn::popcorn:

I need to get me some of those styrofoam ears ... is that a mod-kit you can buy ???  

 

 

I know (from reading) that accurately measuring the high and low ends of response for headphones is difficult. This FR chart is rather different from what I have seen previously from other sources on the Oppo PM-1 .... it shows FR at +/- 3 dbSPL from 1K all the way out to 20k, and +/- 1.5 dbSPL from 100 Hz down to 20 Hz. In the short time I've been lurking at Head-Fi, I don't think I've seen anything like this.

 

Is the "normal" high-tech approach of measuring using a dummy head and a mike in the ear location known to create some resonances and attenuation at the upper end? (In other words, is what we usually see on a FR chart for headphones somewhat of an artifact of the difficulties of getting the measurements?) 

post #2007 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

Please tell us where to discuss legitimate concerns.

 

Here :-

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685704/oppo-pm-1-a-new-planar-magnetic-headphone

 

if you go here you'll see that I've moved some of the posts there already. Further more I've deleted ramblings and complaints. When I have more time I'll be re-reviewing what I've deleted and if I find anyone UNREASONABLY rambling on complaining instead of posting objectively and diplomatically about a concern, you may find yourself locked out both Oppo threads. I'm fed up of dealing with childish behaviour on these threads.

post #2008 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougD View Post
I know (from reading) that accurately measuring the high and low ends of response for headphones is difficult. This FR chart is rather different from what I have seen previously from other sources on the Oppo PM-1 .... it shows FR at +/- 3 dbSPL from 1K all the way out to 20k, and +/- 1.5 dbSPL from 100 Hz down to 20 Hz. In the short time I've been lurking at Head-Fi, I don't think I've seen anything like this.

 

Is the "normal" high-tech approach of measuring using a dummy head and a mike in the ear location known to create some resonances and attenuation at the upper end? (In other words, is what we usually see on a FR chart for headphones somewhat of an artifact of the difficulties of getting the measurements?) 

Both linked articles from my earlier post discuss that.  

 Per InnerFidelity article

Quote:

Headphone acoustics are significantly different than room acoustics because you are using an acoustic coupler as opposed to propagating the sound through free-space --- technically called the “free field” in audio terminology, and defined as three-dimensional space where there are no reflecting surfaces. When measuring speakers, you measure the sound out in the free field with a reference microphone and assume if the sound measures flat, you’ll hear it as flat if you put your head where the microphone was --- which is true. But with headphones, there is no free field in which to measure the sound. Due to reflections and modal oscillations within the enclosed volume between the headphones and your ear, the sound at any particular point within that space may be different than the sound at another point. As a result, the only legitimate place to measure the sound from headphones is at the eardrum.

 

That’s a problem because if the sound is flat out in the free field and you stick your head in it, the sound is no longer flat by the time it hits your eardrum. This difference between flat sound in the free field, and the EQ of the sound you hear at the eardrum when you stick your head in the sound in the free field, is called the Head Related Transfer Function.

post #2009 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by keanex View Post

The HD800 don't come with it, nor do the LCD2. They cost either more or about the same.

Edit: And correct me if I'm wrong but aren't third party cables for the HD800 very expensive for any type?
LCD-2 can be purchased with balanced cable if you go through a distributor, not from Audeze direct. I bought my LCD-2 from Justin at Headamp with the balanced cable instead. Sennheisers, probably not. HD800 cables start around $120-150 due to the $50 connector pair. The cable itself is not necessarily required to be expensive. My balanced HD800 cable I had made for $100 a couple years ago including connectors and everything, but that product is no longer available.
post #2010 of 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post

From http://www.audioholics.com/headphone-reviews/oppo-pm-1/measurements:


Pretty flat up to 20K. Now discuss, please.

popcorn.gifpopcorn.gif
Styrofoam cup. You're taking these measurements seriously?
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